Trent transit in Autumn

[Gellscom]

Hi all

 

I am looking for some advice. We are new to narrowboats but have some boating experience on the sea. Following delays in the purchase of our boat we find ourselves needing to get to Bluewater marine on the Stainforth Keadby canal travelling from Mercia Marina on the Trent and Mersey canal in autumn. I always knew the tidal Trent above Cromwell would be a challenge but having made it to Shardlow I find the way ahead blocked by flood warnings and advice not to proceed. Whilst these warnings may subside I am now concerned About adverse weather once I am on the Trent and how it may affect us. I had hoped to be able to make it to Cromwell then hold there for favourable conditions.

 

I would be greatfull for any advice and suggestions from more experienced boaters.

 

Thanks in advance. 

[pearley]

Nether Lock at Newark closed from 8 November until 17 December which takes you into winter.

[nicknorman]

51 minutes ago, Gellscon said:

Hi all

 

I am looking for some advice. We are new to narrowboats but have some boating experience on the sea. Following delays in the purchase of our boat we find ourselves needing to get to Bluewater marine on the Stainforth Keadby canal travelling from Mercia Marina on the Trent and Mersey canal in autumn. I always knew the tidal Trent above Cromwell would be a challenge but having made it to Shardlow I find the way ahead blocked by flood warnings and advice not to proceed. Whilst these warnings may subside I am now concerned About adverse weather once I am on the Trent and how it may affect us. I had hoped to be able to make it to Cromwell then hold there for favourable conditions.

 

I would be greatfull for any advice and suggestions from more experienced boaters.

 

Thanks in advance. 

We have had a spell of wet weather, but this is fairly normal at this time of year. The (non-tidal) Trent can vary from completely benign to quite wild. My advice would be to not travel when the levels are on red. We came out of the Erewash to go upstream when the level was near the top of the amber and it’s an experience I wouldn’t like to repeat. There was a lot of wooden debris coming down and the first thing that happened, fortunately before we entered the stream, was that the engine stopped dead due to a log getting jammed on the prop.

 

Anyway you should have an anchor at the ready, with adequate length of chain and warp, and know how to use it. This is a new boat to you and you don’t yet have a feel for it’s reliability and foibles.

 

All that said, when the levels subside the river is a non-event Adrenalin-wise!

 

So I think you just need to keep an eye on the weather forecast. River levels only rise many hours after heavy rain starts, although of course you have to consider the weather upstream in the river’s catchment area, not necessarily at your present location. This gives you time to seek safe haven.

 

It’s worth bearing in mind that in flood conditions, there is a lot more rise below a weir than there is above a weir, so it’s better to ride out a flood above a weir if possible, but even so ensure you are on risers so the mooring lines can’t pull the boat under.

 

Finally check the operating times of the tidal locks. I think you have to give several days notice of an intended passage at this time of year.

 

The tidal part is straightforward going downstream, though you might want to break the journey at Torksey where there is an easy access lock cut with safe pontoon moorings. The only difficulty might be the entry to keadby lock if there is a lot of “fresh” coming down the river. Turn the boat to point upstream before reaching the lock, drift backwards and then slide across into the lock.

 

There are some good guides to the tidal and non-tidal trent from the Boating Association, eg https://kildalemarine.co.uk/products/the-boating-association-trent-chart-no-2-tidal

I recommend them.

[Jen-in-Wellies]

Water levels are more an issue than season as such. The Trent, or any river, can flood in summer as well as winter. A dry settled spell should be fine. Look for neap tides, rather than spring tides on the tidal bit. Keepers for the tidal locks will need booking, with longer lead times than in summer. However, the stoppage that @pearley has given scuppers the plan till late December. Other stoppages are possible later. Generally, CaRT have a hiatus on winter stoppages over Christmas for a couple of weeks. This is a possibility, but you are at the mercy of water conditions.

Jen

[nicknorman]

Also there are quite a few river level monitoring stations which can be viewed graphically. They include a degree of forecasting. This is the one at Shardlow:

 

https://check-for-flooding.service.gov.uk/station/2100

 

and this one downstream of Nottingham

 

https://check-for-flooding.service.gov.uk/station/2102

 

and this one at Farndon, which is near Newark

 

https://check-for-flooding.service.gov.uk/station/2185

Edited November 1, 2021 by nicknorman

[Kendorr]

Have a look here for up to date conditions

 

https://riverlevels.uk/

 

You should be able to get from Shardlow to Cromwell in 2 days, it may take a day or two for Shardlow to fall, it is only just in the red at the moment and there isn't much rain forecast for this week, also the wind is dropping

 

https://www.windy.com/-Rain-thunder-rain?rain,2021110509,52.575,-0.967,7

 

Then, follow the advice given above.

 

Also, welcome to the forum, and I'll look out for you in Bluewater Marina too.

[nicknorman]

7 minutes ago, Kendorr said:

Have a look here for up to date conditions

 

https://riverlevels.uk/

 

You should be able to get from Shardlow to Cromwell in 2 days, it may take a day or two for Shardlow to fall, it is only just in the red at the moment and there isn't much rain forecast for this week, also the wind is dropping

 

https://www.windy.com/-Rain-thunder-rain?rain,2021110509,52.575,-0.967,7

 

Then, follow the advice given above.

 

Also, welcome to the forum, and I'll look out for you in Bluewater Marina too.

Correct me if I’m wrong but I don’t think there is any correlation between the “top of normal range” level on the graphs, and the red boards. The former is about flooding and the latter is about safe navigation. With that level at Shardlow I would have though it was well into the red, if the boards can even be seen! But as you say, it can go down quickly during a dry spell.

 

 

This just come through from CRT:

 

CAUTION STRONG STREAM 

Cranfleet Flood Gates have been closed. We advise users of all boats not to navigate because the strong flows make it difficult and dangerous (Locks may be closed) 

Edited November 1, 2021 by nicknorman

[Kendorr]

1 minute ago, nicknorman said:

Correct me if I’m wrong but I don’t think there is any correlation between the “top of normal range” level on the graphs, and the red boards.

I think you are correct there, I don't know Shardlow well enough to comment, but the site is useful to show when a watercourse is rising or falling, and Shardlow is still being shown as rising. Maybe sitting it out for 2 or 3 days should show improvement.

[nicknorman]

There are also the automatic flood gates at Shardlow, on the edge of town before the last lock, to contend with. If they are closed, you are going no-where!

[Jen-in-Wellies]

Another consideration for the tidal section over autumn and winter is the limited hours of daylight available. These may, or may not coincide with the optimum times for travelling with the tide. Ideally you want to be going with the tide as it ebbs as you head downstream. Punching the tide in a narrowboat is going to lead to you travelling very slowly, only 1 or 2mph over the ground at best, using up even more of the limited daylight hours. The Trent is notorious for showing up boats with poor engine cooling set ups. Boats that have been fine for years on canals and other rivers have overheated pushing against strong flows for hours on end. This is a new to you boat, so you don't yet know how it will perform in such circumstances. In general, most narrowboats split the tidal journey from Cromwell to Keadby, overnighting at Torksey on the tidal rising pontoons below the lock.

You'll definitely want the Boating Association Sisson's charts for the tidal section of the Trent, which give you navigation marks and the deep water channel. In some places, like Marton Mill, this is not obvious just from looking at the water. There are sunken islands elsewhere to run aground on. I don't want to sound melodramatic. Loads of inland boats do the tidal Trent fine without problems, but preparation is important. Things can go very horribly wrong if you don't. Lots of threads on here with more information and advice.

Jen

[pearley]

In 2019 we were supposed to be going down Trent back to Kings Marina. It had been raining off and on and all the way down the Trent Valley you could see the high river levels. We passed through Alrewas not quite in the red but then had to spend a few days at Shardlow waiting for the red board to come off.

The run down to Sawley was fast and interesting at Derwent Mouth! So we spent a day there to allow the level to drop a bit more before another fast run down to Beeston. If we gone straight on down to Newark it may have been ok but as it was Jeannettes birthday we stayed in Nottingham. 

More rain saw the river back in the red and there we stayed going between Beeston and Nottingham for 5 weeks. When back in amber it was another fast run to Newark made even more interesting/difficult due to the locks now being on self operation.

Edited November 1, 2021 by pearley

[Jen-in-Wellies]

More!

How the tide times at various points on the Trent compare with high water at Hull. Useful for planning.

[Gellscom]

Thanks for all the good advice it is greatly appreciated!
 

We have found a spot above the Derwent lock but after the flood lock and are waiting it out here for now. Will watch for the river levels to fall and go green before venturing forward. The stoppage at Newark will surely confound us so all we can do is creep forward when its safe to do so, I have no intention of loosing the boat or crew to some misguided sense of urgency.

 

Another possibly dumb question, are there decent moorings we can hold up on the non tidal side of Cromwell, or Newark, if we get stuck behind the repair work or would we need to stay in the Beeston & Nottingham section until the way ahead was clear?

 

Once again many thanks for the help ad advice!

[Jen-in-Wellies]

3 minutes ago, Gellscon said:

Another possibly dumb question, are there decent moorings we can hold up on the non tidal side of Cromwell, or Newark, if we get stuck behind the repair work or would we need to stay in the Beeston & Nottingham section until the way ahead was clear?

There are floating moorings at Gunthorpe and at Newark that are upstream of Nether lock. Other places too that I can't remember. Newark is a fine place if you are going to get held up somewhere.

[nicknorman]

12 minutes ago, Gellscon said:

Thanks for all the good advice it is greatly appreciated!
 

We have found a spot above the Derwent lock but after the flood lock and are waiting it out here for now. Will watch for the river levels to fall and go green before venturing forward. The stoppage at Newark will surely confound us so all we can do is creep forward when its safe to do so, I have no intention of loosing the boat or crew to some misguided sense of urgency.

 

Another possibly dumb question, are there decent moorings we can hold up on the non tidal side of Cromwell, or Newark, if we get stuck behind the repair work or would we need to stay in the Beeston & Nottingham section until the way ahead was clear?

 

Once again many thanks for the help ad advice!

Nether lock is downstream of Newark so you have the whole of Newark to stop in. As Jen says, it is one of the nicest places on the river. There is also Kings Marina between Town lock and Nether lock, it might be advisable to sound them out for an emergency stay. A lot of river marinas only cater for cruisers, but Kings seem to have a few narrowboats too.

[Naughty Cal]

3 hours ago, Gellscom said:

Thanks for all the good advice it is greatly appreciated!
 

We have found a spot above the Derwent lock but after the flood lock and are waiting it out here for now. Will watch for the river levels to fall and go green before venturing forward. The stoppage at Newark will surely confound us so all we can do is creep forward when its safe to do so, I have no intention of loosing the boat or crew to some misguided sense of urgency.

 

Another possibly dumb question, are there decent moorings we can hold up on the non tidal side of Cromwell, or Newark, if we get stuck behind the repair work or would we need to stay in the Beeston & Nottingham section until the way ahead was clear?

 

Once again many thanks for the help ad advice!

There are floating pontoon moorings at most of the locks on the Trent, Hazelford being the exception.

 

If you make it through Nether before the stoppage starts then there are floating pontoon moorings at Cromwell above the lock.

 

Once on the tidal Trent there are a few floating pontoon moorings at High Marnham (ski club mooring), Dunham Bridge, Torksey Lock cut and Gainsborough. Once past Gainsborough there are no pleasure craft moorings on the river and you would need to either lock up into West Stockwith basin or lock through Keadby to find a mooring.

[Kendorr]

Something else to be aware of, if and when you get in at Keadby, Vazon rail bridge is currently only open on Tuesdays and Thursdays and only for a single opening at, or around, 12-00 pm, but after that, you're only about 3 hours from Bluewater Marina.

 

Kevin

[Richard T]

From my experience the river level at Shardlow is currently about 450mm above the navigable level, Using Gaugemap https://www.gaugemap.co.uk/#!Map/Summary/121/123

The level is currently 1.772m it need to drop to around 1.300 to be in the amber on the Derwent Mouth board. Also Cranfleet flood gates are currently closed. CRT will issue a notice when they are open again.

When you do move north approaching Beeston lock you need to keep close to the left hand (northern) bank - the hydro power station exerts a considerable pull on the river. Likewise as you approach Holme lock keep well to the right as the stream for the hydro is on the left and is in the lock cut!!

Do not cut corners on the Trent especially around Burton Joyce - it gets very shallow in places - stay in the main flow.

[Momac]

 

The Kiln pontoon in Newark is usually let as winter moorings . ... so probably already let .

Cromwell pontoon has electric so probably occupied.

You have to give 48 hrs notice for a passage through Cromwell - a recently introduced rule.

 

Otherwise sounds like Nether Lock has  stitched you up.

[MrsM]

10th Jan to 18th March Newark Town lock is scheduled to be closed for repair too.

https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/notices/19540-newark-old-lock-and-lock-13-newark-town-lock-river-trent

[PeterScott]

@Jen-in-Wellies posting above (and here) reminded me of using the diagram for a response on12Apr2012 here, edited slightly:

 

To understand the different up/down issues I always return to a WW John Liley article (June 1975) and the diagrams on which I plot my expected position (vertical axis) against time (horizontal axis)

 

A line at 45% represents about 10mph over the ground. So going UPRIVER with the tide, and starting as the tide turns at Keadby, with the flood you can keep the 10mph almost all the way to Cromwell: with a good engine perhaps even overtake it arriving at Cromwell at the end of 'the previous' ebb.

 

Going DOWNRIVER is more of a challenge. Leaving Cromwell at the beginning of the ebb gives only 4 to 5 hours for the 44 miles to Keadby. The ebb is much weaker at Cromwell than is the flood at Keadby so gives hardy any assistance to the say 6mph boat engine - even then the arrival at Keadby is a low tide which [in 2012] would not get a narrowboat into the lock (it was easier in 1975)

 

Being on the river as the tide changes, there's the aegre to consider: in the diagram it is the crossing of the line of the shaded flood. @John Liley  wrote in the article " ... the first of the incoming tide. It happens in the section of the river between Keadby and Torksey, reaching a crescendo as it passes West Stockwith and travels up to Gainsborough. It occurs on the higher 'Spring' tides ... 8.0 metres or more at Hull. ... The wave consists of several folds of water ... As it passes, the level rises rapidly and the current ... prompty changes in direction ... we met one of the larger aegres off the village of West Stockwith ... just after turning the boat in mid-stream. Had [it] arrived a minute or so earlier it would have struck us beam-on in all its plate-smashing, lavatory emptying fury. As it was, the stern merely lifted gently, and before a speculative crowd on the bank, we set off the back way we had come."

 

Can also plot darkness on the chart. As an example, with tidetimes from here, there's an 8.06metre Springtide HWHull at 0640 GMT on 6Nov - (all springtides are about this time of day, most useful for the UPRIVER trips as above in summer). So the chart predicts the tideturn at Keadby at about 0500, and for the sake of the example, assume an 0700 exit from Cromwell (in practice the opening time is 0800 iirc and allow extra time for lock operations), and planning the 16 miles to Torksey with the ebb in 2h30m, slow down as the tide turns, and then speed up again as the flood passes through. With the ebb again all the way to Keadby, and a range of arrival times 1430 to 1530. Only just theoretically-possible, then, with an early start, good speed, no overheating, no fuel-gunge-slopping-about, no logs-to-hit, ...  .Torksey is the more-flexible stopping-off point, without the tricky lock-approach.  Keadby can be fun with moored coasters.

Edited November 2, 2021 by PeterScott

[Gellscom]

Well we finally got out of Shardlow today after three days hold due to flow, then short hold at Sawley for lunch (emptied Elsan at last) then the lights went green and we had a good run up to Nottingham. Trent was good, running with the flow and we feel much more confident now. We are going to press on and see if we can beat the stoppage at Nether lock if we can get topside of that over this weekend we can then regroup at Cromwell for the tidal bit. Thanks again for all the advice I will be sitting down to digest it all before we venture forward on the tidal bit.

[Kendorr]

Sounds good, you should have little or no problem getting through to Nether Lock in 2 days. After that, take advice from the Lockie at Cromwell.

 

Kevin

[Momac]

It looks like today would be a good day to do Nottingham to Crowell.

[pearley]

Just remember that all the locks are now on self operation but I think you can leave the bottom gates open to make things easier. 

But not Newark Town Lock.

Edited November 5, 2021 by pearley