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Can we avoid buying through brokerage?


Delibe

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4 hours ago, Jim Batty said:

Hi Jane

When we were looking for our perfect narrowboat we had to rely on public transport to get to some pretty remote places all over the south and Midlands to view boats. So it became crucial to get the best idea of a boat's condition and layout beforehand, so as to not waste time and resources. 

What ultimately worked best was choosing a place where there were a few brokers close to each other, each with a couple of potential boats advertised that we were interested in. Then we'd make a long weekend of it. We did this by bus and train. If you've a vehicle, it would be all the easier.

For us, the Braunston area, taking in Whilton and Blissworth, was productive. If you're more mobile you could add Rugby, etc. into the mix. 

I would want to know an awful lot about a boat and its condition before traveling down from Northumberland to view it. And I have to say we had a few serious (and expensive) disappointments traveling out to single boats that had been 'oversold' and overvalued by private owners.

At least with the brokers there was a variety of boats to see all at once.

 

Our perfect live aboard boat turned out to be one that was not yet on the broker's website - and that we looked at on a whim ... because we happened to be there at the right time.

 

Best of luck finding your boat.

Thank you, Iuck is what I need. I am now in touch with some brokers who operate around the north midlands, Lancs and Yorks. My daughter lives near York so I have a southerly base to work from (well, southerly to me at least :) I'm also mobile and have oodles of time on my hands - and I do love a road trip. When I got our current boat (a little grp cruiser) I did a trip to Essex one week and then Scotland the next... all part of the fun.  BTW does anyone want a nice little cabin cruiser ;) 

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7 minutes ago, Jane Cartridge said:

All of these are separately budgeted for as running costs. We are already boat  owners so we're prepared for the ongoing costs :o 

I have been monitoring ebay, facebook, gumtree, apollo duck, you name it, for some months and continue to do so! As well as being on the mailing list for every marina and brokerage I can lay my eyes on. But, as I said earlier in the thread, there's no rush. And it's nice to look at all the boats I can't afford :D 

 

Honestly, there is no substitute for turning up repeatedly at brokerages in person, to get the inside track on new boats coming to market. 

 

Mailing lists are for when the people they know personally are ready to buy, but have turned the boat down. 

 

Juss sayin', like. 

 

 

 

Works the same way with estate agents when you buy a house, in my experience.

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Just now, MtB said:

 

Honestly, there is no substitute for turning up repeatedly at brokerages in person, to get the inside track on new boats coming to market. 

 

Mailing lists are for when the people they know personally are ready to buy, but have turned the boat down. 

 

Juss sayin', like. 

 

 

Personal visits to brokerages are only just getting back - so many have been insisting on appointment only because of the blasted virus, and I have been relying on phone calls and messaging to remind them how much they want to find me a boat ;)  But honestly it seems like people are buying boats sight unseen at the minute and I'm simply not willing to do that. Also I'm not willing to travel further south than Staffs/Notts. I'll get there, no rush, and my boat is out there somewhere.

 

Your bit about mailing lists - I don't get your drift there. Am I being dim?

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On 03/11/2021 at 09:17, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

I have certainly had a 'good life' and have found the old saying "the harder you work, the luckier you get" to be true, and, I can go to my grave in the knowledge I have 'played fair' and never knowingly 'ripped anyone off'.

If that is being Mr Perfect, then so be it.

You may, or may not, have ripped anyone off, but you have definitely irritated more than a few.

 

BTW: if you sold your boats to the first viewers, for cash, you could definitely have got more for most of them. However, I would agree that sometimes, the sale is more important than the money.

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1 minute ago, Jane Cartridge said:

Your bit about mailing lists - I don't get your drift there. Am I being dim?

 

Brokers (and estate agents) tend to call around the buyers they know are wanting and in a position to make quick decisions when they see the right boat (or house) first. 

 

Nothing a broker loves more than to get instructions to sell a boat (or house) and call the seller back two hours later with an 'asking price' offer. 

 

Makes them look professional and its such easy money! 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Jane Cartridge said:

Your bit about mailing lists - I don't get your drift there. Am I being dim?

At the moment boats are selling to personal callers before the mailing list gets sent out. So if you enquire about any listed they are invariably either sold, overpriced or have some significant problems.

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58 minutes ago, LadyG said:

Big difference between 45 and 60ft, one's handy, the other is not, have you done much narrowboating, are you going to keep it neat and tidy in a marina or abandon it in the middle of nowhere e ery 14 days? 

...or just move along in a rudderless fashion

..

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On 31/10/2021 at 15:07, Delibe said:

I do review Apolloduck regularly (obsessively more like) but most are brokerage adverts once you open them up. I only ask as we have been warned off brokerages on the grounds of inflated prices. 

Are you sure bout AD, there seem to be more narrow boat ads, in the stats, than are easily accessible. 

I appreciate that brokers charge a commission, but just offer the price you are prepared to pay, what's the problem. 

A broker often has several boats in one place, probably 45 to 60 ft (not a good place to start) 

Let's face it you live within four hours of plenty of boats. Visiting three disparate boats which are an hour apart will take 7 hours travel, three hours inspection. Book in to a B&B, £65, and you can view another four boats, by this time, you might have found a suitable boat or re-defined your expectations. 

Its a major purchase, you have to make the effort

Its more important to get a suitable boat than to save a few quid. 

Dealing with owners can be very difficult, they may be abroad, they don't have a safe agent, they may be unrealistic in pricing, they may not be your type of people, they may not be truthful. They may sell the boat to another person. They may have one leg, they may expect to cut the price, they may not. They may not want a survey, they may make it difficult to get a survey, they may not want paperwork, they may refuse to let you have access to paperwork. They may not own the boat outright. They may not own the boat at all. 

They might be testing the market and have no intention of selling, or it may be sold already, subject to open market valuation. 

Edited by LadyG
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1 hour ago, LadyG said:

Are you sure bout AD, there seem to be more narrow boat ads, in the stats, than are easily accessible. 

I appreciate that brokers charge a commission, but just offer the price you are prepared to pay, what's the problem. 

A broker often has several boats in one place, probably 45 to 60 ft (not a good place to start) 

Let's face it you live within four hours of plenty of boats. Visiting three disparate boats which are an hour apart will take 7 hours travel, three hours inspection. Book in to a B&B, £65, and you can view another four boats, by this time, you might have found a suitable boat or re-defined your expectations. 

Its a major purchase, you have to make the effort

Its more important to get a suitable boat than to save a few quid. 

Dealing with owners can be very difficult, they may be abroad, they don't have a safe agent, they may be unrealistic in pricing, they may not be your type of people, they may not be truthful. They may sell the boat to another person. They may have one leg, they may expect to cut the price, they may not. They may not want a survey, they may make it difficult to get a survey, they may not want paperwork, they may refuse to let you have access to paperwork. They may not own the boat outright. They may not own the boat at all. 

They might be testing the market and have no intention of selling, or it may be sold already, subject to open market valuation. 

You are quite right to point out the many pitfalls around buying a used canal boat (buying a new one has a whole load of different ones!) Especially in an over-heated market (as in recent times) it is easy for folk to lose sight of the need to be careful. 

 

But, to be fair, many of the problems you list can also happen with a broker involved - they are working mainly for the seller (actually, principally for themselves, they need the income!) and do not have the same liabilities as the actual seller. But they are in the market regularly so it is more feasible to get some idea of an individual broker's reputation and skill. Most private sellers you will never meet again in the market.

 

With conventional economics, in a perfect market ( one with many more sellers than buyers) then the cost of selling is entirely borne by the seller and not factored into the price. In a market with many more buyers than sellers it is likely that the cost will be borne by the buyer as the seller is able to factor it in to the price. In most conditions (and we may well be heading back there) the cost is shared equally, with the proportion borne by the seller much dependent on the value that buyers se in going through a reliable and reputable broker (for the reasons you set out). 

 

In the recent past, most sellers seem to value the service of a broker as they can load the cost onto the buyer - hence buyers do not really have much of  choice as most boats will be sold via a broker.

 

Hence, to the OP, there is no single answer as it will depend much on the current market conditions. You will have to listen around - and here is as good as many other places - to suss out where we are at when you make your purchase. As with any transaction, you will also have to make up your own mind on your appetite for risk - some on here seem to have as much faith in their buying ability as those who refuse a vaccination think they can dodge the bullet.

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On 31/10/2021 at 15:07, Delibe said:

I do review Apolloduck regularly (obsessively more like) but most are brokerage adverts once you open them up. I only ask as we have been warned off brokerages on the grounds of inflated prices. 

 

i can't help but disagree with this. Brokers by and large are in it to sell boats. Any broker over-pricing a boat is not going to succeed in selling it, or at least not without a LOT of effort and time in conducting dozens of viewings for probably no result. Brokers tend therefore, to price boats quite accurately for the market so while you will won't get a bargain, you won't get horribly oversold either. 

 

Another reason to use a broker is they usually have docking and survey facilities on hand. Most private sellers don't so you either have to buy with no survey, or someone has to go through considerable effort to get the boat to a dock and book a surveyor. 

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On 07/11/2021 at 20:19, Delibe said:

Personal visits to brokerages are only just getting back - so many have been insisting on appointment only because of the blasted virus, and I have been relying on phone calls and messaging to remind them how much they want to find me a boat ;)  But honestly it seems like people are buying boats sight unseen at the minute and I'm simply not willing to do that. Also I'm not willing to travel further south than Staffs/Notts. I'll get there, no rush, and my boat is out there somewhere.

 

Your bit about mailing lists - I don't get your drift there. Am I being dim?

Which limits your market somewhat.

 

Surely "the right boat" is worth travelling for?

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36 minutes ago, Naughty Cal said:

Surely "the right boat" is worth travelling for?

 

But there's the rub. Delibe will only know if it is the right boat, after doing the travelling. 

 

It's a bit like those on here who say "if you don't like a post, don't read it.

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On 31/10/2021 at 16:22, system 4-50 said:

Just to satisfy my nosiness, what do you want?

Absolutely, I don't think anyone can know what they want unless they have a stable family situation. That's an oxymoron. 

A 45 cruiser  stern, and a 60ft trad can never be the same animal, imho. Its just a strange starting point. 

If they intend to summer cruise the wide northern canals and have a small budget, then a 35ft wide beam cruiser might serve their purpose. 

If they want to have a narrow boat cc, and live in the midlands full time, that's a very different kettle of fish. 🐡

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