BMC 1.5 Gearbox I.D.? Also not engaging gear at all.

[TNLI]

3 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

The simple answer is because until we can see the ports we don't know how many there are or how large they are. If you are happy machining old aluminium then I am sure you can fabricate bolt on ports. If you finally decide to go for heat exchanger cooling then that manifold does not look as if it has provision for a heat exchanger core, but I may be wrong about that. I am about 75% sure it will be fine for direct raw water cooling or for heat exchanger cooling with a separate heat exchanger, but from what I can see I strongly suspect that the ports may not be large enough for keel/tank cooling.We just have to wait and see. For keel/tank cooling with a dry exhaust you need  two ports in the manifolds at least as large as the inlet to the engine water pump.

 

You did state that you are building to the lifeboat regulations but I can not see them being less stringent, safety wise, that the Boat Safety Scheme and that requires exhaust manifolds to have a water jacket or be wrapped in insulating material to prevent dangers from what could be a red hot manifold. Hence my belief that the manifold will have to have a water jacket and with keel/tank cooling the easiest way is to include it in the cooling circuit - as long as the ports allow sufficient coolant flow.

 

 

 

Thanks for that, and the only lifeboat regulations I'm interested in relate to those an insurance company is interested in, and those ABS (American) regulations relate mostly to unsinkability and fire detection and fighting, along with the more common roll over securing of the engine. The manifold of some turbo diesels with turbo charges is nearly red hot at full chat, so how hot it is is not of concern.

  There is no way I'm getting involved with heat exchangers as used in a suck and spit cooling system. It costs nearly a grand in parts for a new Bowman unit anyway. Ice or tropical worms can ruin your whole trip if you have a suck and spit system. More pumps=Less reliability and extra belts for secondary pumps, or emergency bilge or fire pumps are a pain in maintenance of reliability terms.

 

  I'm still try to figure out a cheap way of moving my engine to the garage, but no luck so far. Once it's there I will take some pics of the engine mounts, (I've got an ASAP catalogue and they do show what I think is the round single bolt rubber insert ones), and downpipe from the manifold.

  The chap who bought and arranged the engine to be reconditioned, does not know how it was plumbed, and just to confuse things nearly all the hoses were cut off, and some type of water pump left in the original barge. The only thing known for sure is that it was either keel or direct salt cooled, with the oil cooler for the hydraulic box connecting to the exhaust downpipe, probably using the missing pump. 

 

  One question I have relates to the gearbox cooler, as I can't understand why a normal air only oil cooler can't be used, as that would simplify the cooling system. The Porsche 911 270 HP turbo might use mostly air cooling to keep the block cool, BUT it also has air only cooled oil, from an 18 litre tank of engine oil, (they take a long time to warm up). 

 

  What is the problem with using the type of oil cooler below ??

 

13 Row Oil Cooler for Classic/Kit Cars with 1/2 inch BSP fittings. High Spec | eBay

 

Or one with hoses and some kind of filter, (Might just be a magnet as that is all that is needed apart from a screen):

 

Black Universal 10 Row AN10 Engine Transmission Oil Cooler + Filter Adapter Kit | eBay

 

Edited November 6, 2021 by TNLI

[Tony Brooks]

1 hour ago, TNLI said:

 

Thanks for that, and the only lifeboat regulations I'm interested in relate to those an insurance company is interested in, and those ABS (American) regulations relate mostly to unsinkability and fire detection and fighting, along with the more common roll over securing of the engine. The manifold of some turbo diesels with turbo charges is nearly red hot at full chat, so how hot it is is not of concern.

  There is no way I'm getting involved with heat exchangers as used in a suck and spit cooling system. It costs nearly a grand in parts for a new Bowman unit anyway. Ice or tropical worms can ruin your whole trip if you have a suck and spit system. More pumps=Less reliability and extra belts for secondary pumps, or emergency bilge or fire pumps are a pain in maintenance of reliability terms.

 

  I'm still try to figure out a cheap way of moving my engine to the garage, but no luck so far. Once it's there I will take some pics of the engine mounts, (I've got an ASAP catalogue and they do show what I think is the round single bolt rubber insert ones), and downpipe from the manifold.

  The chap who bought and arranged the engine to be reconditioned, does not know how it was plumbed, and just to confuse things nearly all the hoses were cut off, and some type of water pump left in the original barge. The only thing known for sure is that it was either keel or direct salt cooled, with the oil cooler for the hydraulic box connecting to the exhaust downpipe, probably using the missing pump. 

 

  One question I have relates to the gearbox cooler, as I can't understand why a normal air only oil cooler can't be used, as that would simplify the cooling system. The Porsche 911 270 HP turbo might use mostly air cooling to keep the block cool, BUT it also has air only cooled oil, from an 18 litre tank of engine oil, (they take a long time to warm up). 

 

  What is the problem with using the type of oil cooler below ??

 

13 Row Oil Cooler for Classic/Kit Cars with 1/2 inch BSP fittings. High Spec | eBay

 

Or one with hoses and some kind of filter, (Might just be a magnet as that is all that is needed apart from a screen):

 

Black Universal 10 Row AN10 Engine Transmission Oil Cooler + Filter Adapter Kit | eBay

 

 

They both seem to be automotive units that rely upon ram air through the core and I don't see how you will get that inside the engine bay of a boat. That is why boats tend to use oil to water oil coolers. Water will also carry away far more heat that air so you can use a smaller unit. I have already suggested one way in which you MIGHT 9subject to testing) make use of your existing gearbox oil cooler. I simply can not understand how or why you think it will simplify the cooling system. You will just be losing 2 water connections and adding the possible complexity of needing fans and air ducting to get cool air to the unit and hot air away.

 

Connecting the oil cooler outlet to the exhaust mixing elbow is the standard way to plumb any system using raw water, be that direct raw water or  indirect raw water (heat exchanger), with a wet exhaust system. As I have said before its a frankenengine that has been messed about with. If it was keel/tank cooled then the pump that was left on the barge may have been a belt driven pump mounted remote from the engine or an electric pump. It seems raw water was definitely involved and that might just have been used for the oil cooler and manifold but I can't see enough in the video to be sure.

 

Another chap and myself slid a 1.5 (no gearbox) into the back of a car up some baulks of timber. I presume he got someone to help him slide it out again. I think that if you took the gearbox off three people could probably do the same. I note that a nationwide hire setup hires a folding engine hoist (so it will fit in a car) for under £50 for the day. Local may well be cheaper.

[Tracy D'arth]

In my fitter (sic) days I have walked BMC 1.5Ds up a plank into a van on my own. Not now!

[TNLI]

On 26/10/2021 at 09:43, Anything said:

Hello,

This site been incredibly helpful so far seeing how everything is breaking in our boats engine bay. Hoping someone could identify this gearbox, it's attached to a BMC 1500 and suggest any things to check for when it doesn't select/engage gear? Also what oil it needs?

 

Thank you 

Just love this picture, it reminds me of a bilge pump engine from the Torrey Canyon disaster, that results in lots of fire, leaking oil and flames. 

[TNLI]

10 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

They both seem to be automotive units that rely upon ram air through the core and I don't see how you will get that inside the engine bay of a boat. That is why boats tend to use oil to water oil coolers. Water will also carry away far more heat that air so you can use a smaller unit. I have already suggested one way in which you MIGHT 9subject to testing) make use of your existing gearbox oil cooler. I simply can not understand how or why you think it will simplify the cooling system. You will just be losing 2 water connections and adding the possible complexity of needing fans and air ducting to get cool air to the unit and hot air away.

 

Connecting the oil cooler outlet to the exhaust mixing elbow is the standard way to plumb any system using raw water, be that direct raw water or  indirect raw water (heat exchanger), with a wet exhaust system. As I have said before its a frankenengine that has been messed about with. If it was keel/tank cooled then the pump that was left on the barge may have been a belt driven pump mounted remote from the engine or an electric pump. It seems raw water was definitely involved and that might just have been used for the oil cooler and manifold but I can't see enough in the video to be sure.

 

Another chap and myself slid a 1.5 (no gearbox) into the back of a car up some baulks of timber. I presume he got someone to help him slide it out again. I think that if you took the gearbox off three people could probably do the same. I note that a nationwide hire setup hires a folding engine hoist (so it will fit in a car) for under £50 for the day. Local may well be cheaper.

 

Thanks TB but I was not thinking of putting it in the engine bay, partly because I have not built it, and partly because I can avoid the need for a thermocouple and temperature gauge if I can feel it. I don't like the idea of using a 60 year old oil cooler, due to the possibility of corrosion, and if the air cooler is bolted to the inside of the hull just to the side of the engine, it might not get hot enough to need a fan.

 

Will look at hiring a engine hoist to cover the drop off, although I'm also trying to see if a friend can use his fan to drive the hoist around to position the engine into the garage.

  I can get the van for free, so the issue is just the hoist.

[Slim]

😀

19 hours ago, Tracy D'arth said:

In my fitter (sic) days I have walked BMC 1.5Ds up a plank into a van on my own. Not now!

In the day I moved a BMC 1.5 off a bench, down a 200' garden on my own using only a cheap sack cum flat trolley. Two of us lifted it into/out of a luggage trailer, down a floating pontoon, onto a 29' yacht, through the hatch and slid it into position. All with ropes, poles and planks.(and a tin of grease). Amazing what you can do with a bit of planning.😀

[TNLI]

3 hours ago, Slim said:

😀

In the day I moved a BMC 1.5 off a bench, down a 200' garden on my own using only a cheap sack cum flat trolley. Two of us lifted it into/out of a luggage trailer, down a floating pontoon, onto a 29' yacht, through the hatch and slid it into position. All with ropes, poles and planks.(and a tin of grease). Amazing what you can do with a bit of planning.😀

I moved my BMC AND hydraulic gearbox in my backpack all the way from up North of London in only 5 minutes, that's why I've got a stiff back and have no intention of ever moving it from storage until I can find 2 skateboards to use for the last few miles!

[Slim]

38 minutes ago, TNLI said:

I moved my BMC AND hydraulic gearbox in my backpack all the way from up North of London in only 5 minutes, that's why I've got a stiff back and have no intention of ever moving it from storage until I can find 2 skateboards to use for the last few miles!

But I did

[john.k]

A mate of mine built an 8L3 Gardner in his loungeroom,and we ran it inside his house......her indoors wasnt well pleased,and told him to get it out of the house ......only way to get it out was a hole in the wall.We went around all the secondhand shops buying skateboards , made a skid from used formply ,and had the motor outside in a day.