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Rochdale canal


Pam 61
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Has anyone been on the Rochdale on a barge 10' wide or over in the last 12 months, as we are getting conflicting info, CRT are saying it is only suitable up to  9'6"

Thanks

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Where and from who in CaRT are you getting this information?

I've just downloaded the boaters guide, which draws directly from CaRT's database and there are two locks with single gate problems, restricting the canal to narrow beam only.

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RochdaleCanal,Lock40,PunchbowlLock:Restriction(14Jun18untilfurthernotice):Theoffsidetailgatehasdroppedandcannotbeoperated.Unfortunatelythismeansthatbroadbeamboatscannotnavigatethelock. Wearearrangingforinvestigationsto becarriedoutanda planforworksto repairthegate. Weapologisefortheinconvenienceetc.

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Lock8 Mayroyd:Restriction(19Oct21untilfurthernotice):Thetowpathsidetailgateisleaningin thequoinandcannotbeopenedorclosedwithoutanenormousamountof peopleassisting,thisis beyondwhatis reasonablyexpectedandwewillbeassessingit withourengineersshortly.Untila solutionis identifiedwehavedecidedit'sbetterto lockthetowpathsidetailgatein theclosedposition.Thismeansthecanalis effectivelyclosedto BroadbeamsbutNarrowbeamscanstillusethecanalanddoubleupin allthelocksthatwillallowit andespeciallyMayroydto preservethewaterforHebdenBridge,a knownareaforwaterresourceissues.Atthemomentwedon't haveanenddatefortheproblembutwillupdatethisnoticeassoonaswecantominimisedisruptionforallof ourcustomers.Thankyou

Apologies for the words runningtogethermakingitveryhardtoread. Some weird copy paste thing from the pdf.

 

The canal was originally built for 14' wide boats, but when it was restored, some of the locks had been squeezed by the earth around them and were not rebuilt. This restricts the canal to boats less than 14', but I can't remember what the official maximum beam is under normal circumstances when there aren't stoppages. Though you could say that stoppages are now normal circumstances and the canal being fully open is exceptional!

Jen

 

Edited to add: From the same boaters guide. Max beam they give is 13'6".

Quote

Dimensions82ConstraintPoint:Lock26Beam:4.01m,(13.16ft).Draught:1.35m,(4.43ft).AdditionalNote:Thisis measuredwidthatnarrowestpointof lock82ConstraintPoint:M62brHeadroom:1.93m,(6.33ft).82ConstraintPoint:Lock19Length:21.92m,(71.92ft

 

 

Edited by Jen-in-Wellies
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Thanks Jen, this is the problem CaRT are stating 9'6" as maximum beam, but Boaters Guide 13'6", conflicting info! could just do with knowing if anybody has actually done it on a 10'

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6 minutes ago, Pam 61 said:

Thanks Jen, this is the problem CaRT are stating 9'6" as maximum beam, but Boaters Guide 13'6", conflicting info! could just do with knowing if anybody has actually done it on a 10'

Who in CaRT is saying 9'6"? I'd heard of a boat 12' beam doing this canal when I was there around 6 years ago. I've not heard of any problems since that would reduce it that much, excepting the current problems with single lock gates being taken out of use.

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Is a concrete support pillar in the "underground" lock on the Rochdale 9 now the thing limiting width? I suppose you could avoid the Rochdale 9 and come down the Ashton 😀

 

Ive seen a couple of widebeams come up from Manchester that looked to be more than 9'6", but not sure.

I don't think any normal person would bring a widebeam up through Manchester just for fun. 😀

 

Hillberry has certainly done Manchester to Hebden in the last couple of years and according to CanalPlan is 10'10".  You have to book CRT to move the floating towpath just below Rochdale.

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54 minutes ago, Pam 61 said:

Thanks Jen, this is the problem CaRT are stating 9'6" as maximum beam, but Boaters Guide 13'6", conflicting info! could just do with knowing if anybody has actually done it on a 10'

OK, I've found it. Says 2.91m (9'5") max beam for the Rochdale in the  in the CaRT waterway dimensions document, but then says the pinch point is 13'6" (4.14m) at Rodwell Tower. For starters, 2.91m is more like 9'6.5", not 9'5" and is less than the supposed pinch point. No clue as to where this is. 4,14m is more like 13'7", so their conversions are not brilliant.

CaRT is not the most competent large organisation in the world. Not impossible that it is a mistake. I haven't been there recently enough to say what the situation is now. Sorry.

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I've seen boats wider than 9' 6". As for pinch points, several locks have narrowed over time, usually signed "one boat at a time" so 13' 6" is about right for them. 

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57 minutes ago, Jim Riley said:

I've seen boats wider than 9' 6". As for pinch points, several locks have narrowed over time, usually signed "one boat at a time" so 13' 6" is about right for them. 

 

More important, have you got the top gates on lock 34 shut up nice and water tight? We hope to be moored there pretty soon, maybe even Thursday if things go well 😀

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12 hours ago, dmr said:

 

More important, have you got the top gates on lock 34 shut up nice and water tight? We hope to be moored there pretty soon, maybe even Thursday if things go well 😀

They were when I left the boat, been away for a few days in the wheeled shed. I might pop down to check it today.

 

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13 hours ago, Jim Riley said:

I've seen boats wider than 9' 6". As for pinch points, several locks have narrowed over time, usually signed "one boat at a time" so 13' 6" is about right for them. 

DeanS, late of the forum, got his purple wide boat at least as far as Littleborough. Can't remember how wide it was though, but surely more than 9' 6".

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1 hour ago, Jim Riley said:

They were when I left the boat, been away for a few days in the wheeled shed. I might pop down to check it today.

 

wheeled shed?  do you mean the tin tent? 😀

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1 hour ago, David Mack said:

DeanS, late of the forum, got his purple wide boat at least as far as Littleborough. 

 I seem to remember his post about  being held up after finding a body along the Rochdale 9 so assume he also went that way too.

 

Edited to add the towpath side top gate of lock 85 was chained closed when we came up 3 weeks ago. which makes it interesting for the next boat descending if a boat exits leaving the offside gate open and there's no crew to close it. 

Edited by Midnight
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24 minutes ago, dmr said:

wheeled shed?  do you mean the tin tent? 😀

No, its not a tin can, it's tupperware, Freedom Jetstream 750kg. Made in Polandland, door on the wrong side. I've known that cause consrternation with OCD campsite owners who like towbars and doors all pointing the same way.

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34 minutes ago, Midnight said:

 I seem to remember his post about  being held up after finding a body along the Rochdale 9 so assume he also went that way too.

Yes  He cc'd around Manchester on the Bridgewater (when you could) and I think up towards Wigan. He ventured up the Rochdale when he was being told he wasn't moving enough.

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We just did New Islington to Littleborough sharing with another boat. Some locks were very difficult due to gates (top and bottom) not fully opening but we did them all together. We went singly through the subsided Littleborough lock (second one up).

I know that Hillberry  ("the Hillbillies" 😀 ) have done the Rochdale end to end in the last couple of years and are listed as 10' 10". They make it look easy.

I suspect that the "Newton Heath Narrows" will probably be the most tricky bit but as wides are usually not too deep they should be ok. I suspect a deeper wide boat might struggle a bit.

There are a few big underwater obstructions ,including something huge in Rochdale, and with a wide there is less scope for getting round them, but again it should be ok if the boat is not too deep.

 

I have met two other wide boats, both brand new,  coming up the Rochdale (from Manchester) in the last couple of years. One said it was the worse experience of their lives and didn't want to talk about it, the other had employed a couple of local boaters to do it for them.

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1 hour ago, Jim Riley said:

Summit pound today.

 

 

 

 

 

Looks like you made your escape just in time.

We are hoping to get over Thursday or Friday.

We are ok but some of the other boats waiting here really do need to get through before the Todmorden stoppage begins, followed by a Calder and Hebble stoppage.

CRT are fairly confident (if nothing goes wrong) and the summit pound is looking quite full, but we are going to need a fair bit of water to fill your pound and the Warland pound.

Did CRT do a fish rescue? dunno about your pound but there are certainly a fair few fish in the Warland pound.

 

If they succeed in making those top gates water-tight then that's going to take away the feed to the next two pounds.

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16 minutes ago, dmr said:

 

Looks like you made your escape just in time.

We are hoping to get over Thursday or Friday.

We are ok but some of the other boats waiting here really do need to get through before the Todmorden stoppage begins, followed by a Calder and Hebble stoppage.

CRT are fairly confident (if nothing goes wrong) and the summit pound is looking quite full, but we are going to need a fair bit of water to fill your pound and the Warland pound.

Did CRT do a fish rescue? dunno about your pound but there are certainly a fair few fish in the Warland pound.

 

If they succeed in making those top gates water-tight then that's going to take away the feed to the next two pounds.

There's a gate feed in the tailgate of 36, they also fitted a controlled bywash on 36, so there is hope. At one time there were combination padlocks on the tail of 36, those of us who moored there had the number, so could always let water down if needed. 

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44 minutes ago, Jim Riley said:

There's a gate feed in the tailgate of 36, they also fitted a controlled bywash on 36, so there is hope. At one time there were combination padlocks on the tail of 36, those of us who moored there had the number, so could always let water down if needed. 

 

But if the top gates seal the gate feed is no good, unless somebody raises a top paddle a bit. I have only ever seen the new bywash turned on once.

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18 hours ago, dmr said:

 

Looks like you made your escape just in time.

We are hoping to get over Thursday or Friday.

We are ok but some of the other boats waiting here really do need to get through before the Todmorden stoppage begins, followed by a Calder and Hebble stoppage.

CRT are fairly confident (if nothing goes wrong) and the summit pound is looking quite full, but we are going to need a fair bit of water to fill your pound and the Warland pound.

Did CRT do a fish rescue? dunno about your pound but there are certainly a fair few fish in the Warland pound.

 

If they succeed in making those top gates water-tight then that's going to take away the feed to the next two pounds.

 

Good luck may I suggest you book these fellas - scary to think that if we had left Littleborough 1 hour later on the 9th we would still be there


 

 

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27 minutes ago, Midnight said:

 

Good luck may I suggest you book these fellas - scary to think that if we had left Littleborough 1 hour later on the 9th we would still be there


 

 

 

Its not really rain that's now the issue, we are getting a fair bit.

CRT decided to do some summit lock maintenance whilst the levels were down. I would normally applaud this attitude but doing it near the end of the "boating season" and to just overlap the winter stoppages was a bad decision, especially as the L&L failure has diverted some North bound boats this way.

Its all got complicated as there is now the local team, a specialist CRT team, a coffer dam contractor and a scaffold contractor all involved. The summit pound is so deep they need scaffold in the canal.

CRT have responded well to our complaints and are really trying to get the summit open by the end of this week. Three boats here really need to get through before the Tod Stoppage as they are heading for winter moorings on the L&L.

 

All sorts of rumours flying about (as you expect on the cut) but it was likely a tarpaulin under a paddle that drained the pound rather than a bad boater, and this would explain why it would not fill up again.

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26 minutes ago, dmr said:

All sorts of rumours flying about (as you expect on the cut) but it was likely a tarpaulin under a paddle that drained the pound rather than a bad boater, and this would explain why it would not fill up again.

 

Wouldn't it require a tarpaulin under a paddle at each end of the lock  to drain the summit to that level? It's been said that C&RT have telemetry on the pound so -surely the dropping level would have been spotted before it got serious. In this case I wonder if it was just down to the dry summer and the number of boats crossing in the weeks before the shut down which used the October quota from United Utilities. When we crossed on the 9th water was flooding over the top gates of most of the locks on both sides of the summit (except 37 & 36). Jim Riley's pound was also full. Leaking gates each end and no top up water from UU. 

 

Edited by Midnight
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I don't know where the tarp came from. I suspect top gates of 36 can be leaky and need careful coaxing into place to seal (like many Rochdale locks) so if it was a 36 bottom paddle that might explain it.

They do have telemetry. I once took a lot of water to fill the Littleborough flight and CRT turned up quickly and told me off. Have heard that telemetry was maybe not working. It should be easy? to produce software to detect a slow draining. There have been cases of a paddle lifted and CRT have not responded to they so they certainly do not always detect levels falling.

Jims pound has a lot of problems, periodically CRT turn up and put in green dye to track the water loss but never fix it. 

The feed was turned off when we went to look but must be back on now as theres plenty water coming past us.

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Afaik the leak on 35/36 pound is through/under the cill of 35. For many years it was presumed it was going into the stream under the canal, then I heard they had used tracer dye to find it going past the cill. In the days when a lengthsman would have just got on with the job, a layer of puddling clay in the canal bed and cill stonework might have ameliorated it. How about laminating all the pages of the risk assessment and laying them on the canal bed to fix the leak. That would fix it.

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