Information about The Alcott family

[Dan52]

Hello Frank. I'm currently researching the Allcott family, and I think we might share the same relatives. My father was adopted in 1942, and I believe his original birth name was Oliver Allcott, after his father. I think what might link us is Oliver Allcott snr., born June quarter 1915, would also be my grandfather. According to the information I have so far, Oliver Allcott snr., married Beatrice V Townsend in the June quarter of 1935, but he died five years later in the March quarter of 1940 aged just 24. I haven't been able so far to establish what happened to Beatrice, but my father was adopted in 1942. One of his adoptive parents was Laura (nee Townsend) the sister of Beatrice Allcott. My father was in affect, being adopted by his aunt as a step child, probably resulting in a second adoption, when Laura married in 1941. The only male child born in Wolverhampton with the name Oliver in December 1939, is 'Oliver Allcott.' 

Would like to get your thoughts on this possible connection.

Dan52

 

[bluebrummie]

On 10/11/2021 at 06:55, Dan52 said:

Hello Frank. I'm currently researching the Allcott family, and I think we might share the same relatives. My father was adopted in 1942, and I believe his original birth name was Oliver Allcott, after his father. I think what might link us is Oliver Allcott snr., born June quarter 1915, would also be my grandfather. According to the information I have so far, Oliver Allcott snr., married Beatrice V Townsend in the June quarter of 1935, but he died five years later in the March quarter of 1940 aged just 24. I haven't been able so far to establish what happened to Beatrice, but my father was adopted in 1942. One of his adoptive parents was Laura (nee Townsend) the sister of Beatrice Allcott. My father was in affect, being adopted by his aunt as a step child, probably resulting in a second adoption, when Laura married in 1941. The only male child born in Wolverhampton with the name Oliver in December 1939, is 'Oliver Allcott.' 

Would like to get your thoughts on this possible connection.

Dan52

 

Hi Dan,

 

Excellent. 

 

Your information matches but a couple of your dates are wrong.  Here is what I have in my family tree for your research.  I hope it helps:

Oliver Allcott (Canal Boatman) Born: 1916

Died: 09 Feb 1940 Wolverhampton, Staffordshire, England. Cause of death 9th February 1940 from Pulmonary Tuberculosis aged 24

Marriage - To Beatrice Violet Townsend (1916–1976), in the presence of Ernest Williams and Sarah Ann Williams Quarter Of Year: Apr-May-Jun/Wolverhampton, Staffordshire, United Kingdom on 08 Apr 1935 • Parish, Church, of, St. Chads, Staffordshire, England
 

Oliver Allcott/Allen - Born: 12 Oct 1939 Wolverhampton, England

Died: Jul 1985 Northampton, England

 

I don't have any information about my Nan's side of the family (Townsend) but I remember the name Laura but forgot her husbands name. I did have a photo of them.  It is on an hard drive I can't access. 😞

If you need to know anything else, feel free to ask.

 

 

 

[Dan52]

Hi Frank

The Oliver Allcott/Allen, who died in 1985 was my father. He didn't like to talk much about how he came to be adopted, but I remember him mentioning the name Parker in connection with his original family. He was adopted in 1942 by Frederick Arthur Allen and Laura Allen. Laura's full maiden name was Laura Beatrice V. Townsend, the younger sister of Beatrice V. Townsend by two years. If the genealogy is correct, Laura would be my great aunt, and her sister Beatrice, would be my grandmother. Your mother, Beatrice Mary Parker (nee Allcott) would be my Dads sister, and we would be first cousins.

The Death Certificate for Oliver Allcott snr. gives the address of 376 Wolverhampton Rd. Heath Town. The address is a pseudonymous address for the former New Cross Workhouse, which became the New Cross Hospital in 1930.

Clearly the family became separated after the death of Oliver snr., and my Dad was put up for adoption. 

I was born on 12 January 1966, at St Chads Children's Hospital, Birmingham. We lived on the Pershore Road, Edgbaston, when I was a baby, until my parents moved to Wythall, Worcestershire. When we visited Fred Allen as children, he was living in Northfield's, but the woman he was living with was called Mary. As yet I don't know what happened to Laura, but she may have remarried, as I haven't been able to find a death date for a Laura Allen. 

I don't know how many of his formative years were spent with Laura, but I suspect he knew more than he was prepared to let on. He died of pneumonia on 6 July 1985 at Northampton General Hospital, brought about by years of treatment for lymphatic cancer. Curiously, I remember he used to get terrible bronchitis when we were young and he had to give up smoking altogether. 

I have requested a copy of Oliver Allcott (b. 1939) from the GRO in the hope that it proves this connection to the Allcott's. If any of this makes sense Frank, please let me know. 

[Dan52]

Hello again Frank.
I received the birth certificate today for Oliver Allcott, born 12 October 1939. Parents, Oliver Allcott, canal boatman, and Beatrice Violet Allcott, formerly Townsend. The address for the registration is 177 Marsh Lane, Bushbury, Wolverhampton. At the end of the document is the word 'adopted' (underlined), with the signature of the Superintendent Registrar; obviously added later. My Dad would have been about five months old when Oliver (snr.) died in March 1940. Its difficult to say for sure, but its likely that Laura adopted my Dad as a step-child, (first adoption), and then a second time when she married Fred in 1941, hence the word 'Readopted' on the Adoption Certificate. The adoptive parents are given an Adoption Certificate, which doesn't record the original birth name, and the adoptive child uses this certificate as if it was a birth certificate.
Best wishes
Dan52

Birth certificate, Oliver Allcott, 1939

[bluebrummie]

20 hours ago, Dan52 said:

Hello again Frank.
I received the birth certificate today for Oliver Allcott, born 12 October 1939. Parents, Oliver Allcott, canal boatman, and Beatrice Violet Allcott, formerly Townsend. The address for the registration is 177 Marsh Lane, Bushbury, Wolverhampton. At the end of the document is the word 'adopted' (underlined), with the signature of the Superintendent Registrar; obviously added later. My Dad would have been about five months old when Oliver (snr.) died in March 1940. Its difficult to say for sure, but its likely that Laura adopted my Dad as a step-child, (first adoption), and then a second time when she married Fred in 1941, hence the word 'Readopted' on the Adoption Certificate. The adoptive parents are given an Adoption Certificate, which doesn't record the original birth name, and the adoptive child uses this certificate as if it was a birth certificate.
Best wishes
Dan52

Birth certificate, Oliver Allcott, 1939

Hi Dan, I can confirm we are indeed part of the same family! Can you email me please so we can talk further on this matter.  I have something to ask you that you may not want to answer on here.  my email address is fp66@msn.com

 

Regards,

 

Frank.

[Dan52]

Hello Frank

I sent you a blank email in response to your last post, and a second one with some attached documents I was unable upload to this site. In case my messages have gone into a spam folder and you still want to contact me, my email address is: 

danielagee52@gmail.com

 

Best wishes

Dan52

[bluebrummie]

On 22/11/2021 at 08:52, Dan52 said:

Hello Frank

I sent you a blank email in response to your last post, and a second one with some attached documents I was unable upload to this site. In case my messages have gone into a spam folder and you still want to contact me, my email address is: 

danielagee52@gmail.com

 

Best wishes

Dan52

Hi Dan,

 

I never saw any e-mails from you so apologies if I deleted them by accident.  I have added you to my address book and I have sent you an email.

 

Take care,

 

Frank.

[Andeana]

Hello. I am doing some research on my Aunt’s family. Her Grandmother was Sarah J Allcott (or Allcotts on her birth record), daughter of Albert and Elizabeth Allcott. I have them on the 1901 census at Calf Heath, Shareshill, Wolverhampton.

Thank you for sharing his death certificate and the marriage certificate of Minnie on this thread.

I wonder if you have any information about Sarah’s husband Richard Turton please?

[bluebrummie]

On 08/11/2023 at 22:02, Andeana said:

Hello. I am doing some research on my Aunt’s family. Her Grandmother was Sarah J Allcott (or Allcotts on her birth record), daughter of Albert and Elizabeth Allcott. I have them on the 1901 census at Calf Heath, Shareshill, Wolverhampton.

Thank you for sharing his death certificate and the marriage certificate of Minnie on this thread.

I wonder if you have any information about Sarah’s husband Richard Turton please?

Hi Andeana,

 

Thanks for that and you are welcome.  I am glad it helped.  I don't have Sarah J. or Richard on my family tree but I would love to add them.  Could you please e-mail me at fp66 [ at ] msn [dot] com and share what you have on your Aunt's family and I will happily share what I have on the Allcotts.

Take care,

 

Frank.

[Captain Pegg]

There was a boating family by the name of Turton seemingly originating from Tettenhall, Wolverhampton.

 

They are linked to various well known boating names such as Griffiths, Littlemore and Lomas; and to my own family.

 

However I can’t find reference to a Richard in the family on initial investigation (well not since the building of the canals anyway).

Edited November 10, 2023 by Captain Pegg

[Andeana]

On 09/11/2023 at 21:59, bluebrummie said:

Hi Andeana,

 

Thanks for that and you are welcome.  I am glad it helped.  I don't have Sarah J. or Richard on my family tree but I would love to add them.  Could you please e-mail me at fp66 [ at ] msn [dot] com and share what you have on your Aunt's family and I will happily share what I have on the Allcotts.

Take care,

 

Frank.

Thank you.

 

I will email you this weekend. I have just purchased Sarah's birth certificate which I will add below.

On 10/11/2023 at 08:25, Captain Pegg said:

There was a boating family by the name of Turton seemingly originating from Tettenhall, Wolverhampton.

 

They are linked to various well known boating names such as Griffiths, Littlemore and Lomas; and to my own family.

 

However I can’t find reference to a Richard in the family on initial investigation (well not since the building of the canals anyway).

Hi.

Thanks for your reply.

Please see below the GRO reference for Alfred's birth, with Allcotts as his mother's maiden name. Also the 1939 register with then living in Dickens Road, Wolverhampton. Richard's occupation given as 'Boatman - crippled now'. He would be about 57 years old here.

[Captain Pegg]

7 hours ago, Andeana said:

Thank you.

 

I will email you this weekend. I have just purchased Sarah's birth certificate which I will add below.

Hi.

Thanks for your reply.

Please see below the GRO reference for Alfred's birth, with Allcotts as his mother's maiden name. Also the 1939 register with then living in Dickens Road, Wolverhampton. Richard's occupation given as 'Boatman - crippled now'. He would be about 57 years old here.

 

I have now found Richard Turton who married Sarah Allcott in 1913 and he is a member of the family I referred to above.

 

On balance of probability it seems that Richard's parents were William and Harriet (nee Webberley). William was born in Wolbverhampton in 1846 and is the son of Thomas Turton b.1812 in Tettenhall, (Wolverhampton), Staffordshire. Information about his mother is not easy to find. All of the Turton boating folk I have identified descend from Thomas's father Joseph Turton (b.1763 in Staffordshire) and his wife, probably Martha Granger (I haven't checked that as she's no direct relation of mine).

 

William Turton's sister Mary Ann married John Griffiths, a well known canal carrier from Bedworth.

 

My own link is that one of William's cousins, Martha, married my great grandfather's cousin Richard Neal. She came from a part of the Turton family that once - briefly - ran a pub in Tipton close to Tipton Green Junction. The pub is long gone (it's not the Fountain which is close by). Boating and publicaning seemed to be interchangable occupations.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[bluebrummie]

1 hour ago, Captain Pegg said:

On 08/11/2023 at 22:02, Andeana said:

Hello. I am doing some research on my Aunt’s family. Her Grandmother was Sarah J Allcott (or Allcotts on her birth record), daughter of Albert and Elizabeth Allcott. I have them on the 1901 census at Calf Heath, Shareshill, Wolverhampton.

Thank you for sharing his death certificate and the marriage certificate of Minnie on this thread.

I wonder if you have any information about Sarah’s husband Richard Turton please?

Thank you for the added information Andeana, I look forward to hearing from you. 🙂 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Captain Pegg said:

 

I have now found Richard Turton who married Sarah Allcott in 1913 and he is a member of the family I referred to above.

 

On balance of probability it seems that Richard's parents were William and Harriet (nee Webberley). William was born in Wolbverhampton in 1846 and is the son of Thomas Turton b.1812 in Tettenhall, (Wolverhampton), Staffordshire. Information about his mother is not easy to find. All of the Turton boating folk I have identified descend from Thomas's father Joseph Turton (b.1763 in Staffordshire) and his wife, probably Martha Granger (I haven't checked that as she's no direct relation of mine).

 

William Turton's sister Mary Ann married John Griffiths, a well known canal carrier from Bedworth.

 

My own link is that one of William's cousins, Martha, married my great grandfather's cousin Richard Neal. She came from a part of the Turton family that once - briefly - ran a pub in Tipton close to Tipton Green Junction. The pub is long gone (it's not the Fountain which is close by). Boating and publicaning seemed to be interchangable occupations.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you for the information C.P., it is very much appreciated and what you wrote is interesting to read. 🙂 

[Andeana]

31 minutes ago, bluebrummie said:

 

Thank you for the information C.P., it is very much appreciated and what you wrote is interesting to read. 🙂 

Thank you for the information 

[bluebrummie]

Correction Andeana and C.P., I DID have Sarah and Richard on my family tree, I never expanded on Sarah's brother Albert C. Allcott's siblings, I overlooked it.  I am not as experienced as others who use Ancestry a LOT more than I do!

However, I never had the documents you supplied so once again, a BIG thank you.

[Andeana]

5 minutes ago, bluebrummie said:

Correction Andeana and C.P., I DID have Sarah and Richard on my family tree, I never expanded on Sarah's brother Albert C. Allcott's siblings, I overlooked it.  I am not as experienced as others who use Ancestry a LOT more than I do!

However, I never had the documents you supplied so once again, a BIG thank you.

I'm am going down a rabbit hole now, so I will share anything else I get.

[bluebrummie]

Just now, Andeana said:

I'm am going down a rabbit hole now, so I will share anything else I get.

For me, as someone who suffers from depression and anxiety, it all gets very overwhelming and stressful so my cousin and sister are into genealogy a lot more than I am.  I find out what I can and share what I can to help others on their way (we are all connected), as information was passed on to me, I passed it on to them, and I am more than happy to share anything with you.  Good luck on your journey!  🙂

[Andeana]

7 minutes ago, bluebrummie said:

For me, as someone who suffers from depression and anxiety, it all gets very overwhelming and stressful so my cousin and sister are into genealogy a lot more than I am.  I find out what I can and share what I can to help others on their way (we are all connected), as information was passed on to me, I passed it on to them, and I am more than happy to share anything with you.  Good luck on your journey!  🙂

Thank you. As I said at the start, I am the family genealogist but this is really my Aunt's family. I just find that when I go off on a trail, I can't leave it alone until I have all the info. The last thing I would want to do is cause you any stress.

[bluebrummie]

1 minute ago, Andeana said:

Thank you. As I said at the start, I am the family genealogist but this is really my Aunt's family. I just find that when I go off on a trail, I can't leave it alone until I have all the info. The last thing I would want to do is cause you any stress.

You are welcome.  You haven't caused me stress at all, I just find if I try to do too much at once I find it stressful but that is the same with anything, not just genealogy!

I hope I can help you and your Aunt in any way possible.

[Andeana]

28 minutes ago, bluebrummie said:

You are welcome.  You haven't caused me stress at all, I just find if I try to do too much at once I find it stressful but that is the same with anything, not just genealogy!

I hope I can help you and your Aunt in any way possible.

Thank you. Unfortunately she has recently passed away. So I am doing it in behalf of her children and her sisters.

[bluebrummie]

Just now, Andeana said:

Thank you. Unfortunately she has recently passed away. So I am doing it in behalf of her children and her sisters.

You are welcome.  I am sorry to hear that, my condolences to you all. 

[Andeana]

3 minutes ago, bluebrummie said:

You are welcome.  I am sorry to hear that, my condolences to you all. 

Thank you. It's been an awful time. I'm scratching October 2023 from my life.

[bluebrummie]

Just now, Andeana said:

Thank you. It's been an awful time. I'm scratching October 2023 from my life.

You are welcome.  It is hard I know.  May next year be happier times for you all.

[Derek R.]

Tettenhall. By pure coincidence, my wife brought home a book from the charity shop in which she works, that features the village (as was) of Tettenhall.

Two images within show the Staffs and Worc. with boats, one without:

 

From 'Tettenhall' by Jon Raven. Broadside publications ISBN 0 946757 08 9

 

 

A view with Compton lock in the background.

 

 

Looking towards Aldersley, an 'Outing'. 1890's.

 

 

 

At Newbridge.

Edited November 18, 2023 by Derek R.

[agg221]

Can I suggest that WikiTree might be useful for the main contributors to this thread?

 

If you are not familiar with it, rather than the Ancestry principle where everyone builds their own tree, instead on WikiTree there is a single entry for each individual and everyone adds information to that page.

 

The Ancestry model makes much more sense commercially as the historical information they have can be sold to multiple people, but the WikiTree model is free and significant steps have been taken to ensure permanent data storage. It has its frustrations - usually random Americans who have no concept of good quality records existing before their country was even created, but no information is deleted. It allows uploading of copies of photographs, certificates etc. and all data requires a source which gives it a level of accuracy not found in many Ancestry trees, which are often based on nothing more than conjecture.

 

Given that there is a group of related people here, with unrelated people having additional canal-related information, it might be a useful way to capture it.

 

Alec