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Webby tt evo 5 or ebby hs3 d4e


pollip

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I'm looking to replace my thermo top c with an evo 5 or a hs3, i can't find many reviews on either and not many people seem to of fitted them at all. I intend to use a heat exchanger rather than a calorifier and only have 2 small rads, 1 on thermostatic rad valves 1 towel rad which isn't as it's used as the heat sync. It would be loverly to be able to turn the rads off in summer and just get all but instant hot water from the heat exchanger without unwanted rad heat. The only reason I fitted rads is because I had to. How well would these new ones cope with being run for 15m and switched off again ?, It seems a waste of time effort and diesel to run it any longer to stop it from coking up but also I obviously don't want it coking up. Any info ??, I've searched on here and on Google and YouTube but can't seem to find much at all. Ta

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My next diesel heater when my present Eber dies will be the Webasto Evo. Almost silent operation, no clicking fuel pump, and has a variable burn design which is far better than heat, half heat, off, heat, off, heat, off of the older burners. We have installed quite a few now with very positive feedback.

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58 minutes ago, pollip said:

I intend to use a heat exchanger rather than a calorifier and only have 2 small rads, 1 on thermostatic rad valves 1 towel rad which isn't as it's used as the heat sync

 

How curious. I've never encountered this idea until today, when another thread was also posted about this by a bod who has exactly this system, and it doesn't work! 

 

Where did you get the idea from? Is it suggested in the Webby manual perhaps?  Along with full details of exactly how to design it? Or is this going to be your own ad hoc design worked out on the fly? Or something in between? 

 

 

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This trying to use a diesel burner as an instantaneous water heater is fraught with problems as it is  never designed to do this.

A diesel fires boiler of this type with little thermal mass depends on the heat having a sufficient sink via the water flowing through it. Difficult to achieve with just a plate heat exchanger with periodic cold water flow to remove the heat.

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16 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

How curious. I've never encountered this idea until today, when another thread was also posted about this by a bod who has exactly this system, and it doesn't work! 

 

Where did you get the idea from? Is it suggested in the Webby manual perhaps?  Along with full details of exactly how to design it? Or is this going to be your own ad hoc design worked out on the fly? Or something in between? 

 

 

Prolly on a Ubertuber vlog

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42 minutes ago, matty40s said:

My next diesel heater when my present Eber dies will be the Webasto Evo. Almost silent operation, no clicking fuel pump, and has a variable burn design which is far better than heat, half heat, off, heat, off, heat, off of the older burners. We have installed quite a few now with very positive feedback.

You lost me with the half heat off stuff all I understood was webasto evo lol, I've never actually used the thermo top c so couldnt actually tell or say how it works 

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25 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

How curious. I've never encountered this idea until today, when another thread was also posted about this by a bod who has exactly this system, and it doesn't work! 

 

Where did you get the idea from? Is it suggested in the Webby manual perhaps?  Along with full details of exactly how to design it? Or is this going to be your own ad hoc design worked out on the fly? Or something in between? 

 

The idea came from a mate with a van, he runs a plinth heater underfloor heating and a heat exchanger. He didn't have a mixing valve on it and the water came out way to hot to use now usable with a mixing valve fitted. Speaking to melloronline they sell loads of heat exchangers to the van world its just not really done in boats for some unknown reason. It is pretty much just replace your calorifior with a heat exchanger, you've got to be careful the cold water doesn't flow through to quick as to not heat up the water. Any chance you could link or tag me into the post please, I'd be keen to have a read. Loads of people tell you it can't be done but it can, I've just sat and watched a couple on YouTube fit an ebby with a blower underfloor heating and a heat exchanger from the same place I'd be buying from

 

49 minutes ago, matty40s said:

My next diesel heater when my present Eber dies will be the Webasto Evo. Almost silent operation, no clicking fuel pump, and has a variable burn design which is far better than heat, half heat, off, heat, off, heat, off of the older burners. We have installed quite a few now with very positive feedback.

My thoughts on the ebby were they go lower than the evo which in theory would mean kick up less of a fuss with the little amount of rads

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29 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

This trying to use a diesel burner as an instantaneous water heater is fraught with problems as it is  never designed to do this.

A diesel fires boiler of this type with little thermal mass depends on the heat having a sufficient sink via the water flowing through it. Difficult to achieve with just a plate heat exchanger with periodic cold water flow to remove the heat.

 

30 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

This trying to use a diesel burner as an instantaneous water heater is fraught with problems as it is  never designed to do this.

A diesel fires boiler of this type with little thermal mass depends on the heat having a sufficient sink via the water flowing through it. Difficult to achieve with just a plate heat exchanger with periodic cold water flow to remove the heat.

Difficult to achieve but not impossible which is why the newer ones seem better suited because I believe the ebby goes down to 1.3 kW and the evo 1.8kw, a far cry away from the original 5 kW. Now all I keep thinking to myself is everybody thay runs their hot water through a diesel heater and calorifior, how in the hell do they deal with red hot radiators I'm the summer.. why was that ever even a thing. It seems the current two mainly used options are shite. lpg water heaters difficult to get fitted buy a reputable person because of liability issues and being an open flued system, next you've got to sit about for an hour or 2 for a tank of hot water big enough for 2 showers and some washing up while wasting diesel for several hours and being scorched by hot rads on a summery day. Things seem to be behind the times and the heat exchangers off a ebby or webby seem to be bringing the times forward slightly. There's loads of people in vans doing it just the boat world hasn't clocked on yet because there's to many people saying you couldn't or shouldn't 

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Nicely done, but surely this goes against the argument of not enough of a heat sync for the ebby or webby to work. Obviously it would be more of a heat sync than a heat exchanger but probably not more than a heat exchanger and 2 rads

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23 minutes ago, pollip said:

Difficult to achieve but not impossible which is why the newer ones seem better suited because I believe the ebby goes down to 1.3 kW and the evo 1.8kw, a far cry away from the original 5 kW. Now all I keep thinking to myself is everybody thay runs their hot water through a diesel heater and calorifior, how in the hell do they deal with red hot radiators I'm the summer..

 

Errr.... they turn them OFF!

 

There is no reason I can think of not to run a Webby through just the calorifier. 

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1 minute ago, MtB said:

 

Errr.... they turn them OFF!

 

There is no reason I can think of not to run a Webby through just the calorifier. 

I'm guessing for the same reason people say you can't run a heat exchanger  off a webby. The heat sync has to be something like 10% over the capacity of the webby so the webby doesn't shut down because of something or another. I had loads of people tell me I didn't have enough rads to use my 5kw webby on bare in mind I did have a 44litre calorifier aswell

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2 minutes ago, pollip said:

I'm guessing for the same reason people say you can't run a heat exchanger  off a webby. The heat sync has to be something like 10% over the capacity of the webby so the webby doesn't shut down because of something or another. I had loads of people tell me I didn't have enough rads to use my 5kw webby on bare in mind I did have a 44litre calorifier aswell

Ok, in summer, I have to run my eber dw5 for hot water if I decide not to cruise for that day. I dont have my radiators on, never have in 14 years of owning this boat.

You dont know what your webby does, havnt run it. But you want to change it for a new unit piped in a wonderful new imaginative way that doesnt appear in any Eber or Webby installation guidance. 

Good luck, I'm out.

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5 minutes ago, pollip said:

I'm guessing for the same reason people say you can't run a heat exchanger  off a webby. The heat sync has to be something like 10% over the capacity of the webby so the webby doesn't shut down because of something or another. I had loads of people tell me I didn't have enough rads to use my 5kw webby on bare in mind I did have a 44litre calorifier aswell

 

I suspect you mean "heat sink" rather than heat sync.

 

! I can see if the load on the Ebby is less than it's output, it might cycle on and off which is not considered good for them, but as Matty points out a well designed system works perfectly well with rads OFF. 

 

 

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40 minutes ago, matty40s said:

Ok, in summer, I have to run my eber dw5 for hot water if I decide not to cruise for that day. I dont have my radiators on, never have in 14 years of owning this boat.

You dont know what your webby does, havnt run it. But you want to change it for a new unit piped in a wonderful new imaginative way that doesnt appear in any Eber or Webby installation guidance. 

Good luck, I'm out.

I had it running to test the system once and since the water pump has gone I've sent it off to repair its a car unit that can't be read on a diagnostic machine the fuels also not going through very well and its looking like it needs replacing. The calorifior has a big on split in it meaning I need a new one of them aswell... I don't have the best part of 2k just for parts not including labour.. especially not when I'm mid refit. Of course I'm going to look for cheaper options that heat water faster who wouldn't. I asked about an lpg water heater and that post was plagued about no this that and the other go diesel go diesel, bss liability issues etc etc. Neither method seem the right way to go 🤷‍♂️. I'm genuinely asking to learn and am intruiged as to why or why not something so or shouldn't be done and why it would or wouldn't work. Everyone seems to palm the heat exchangers off without even having tried it.. why ?, I'm curious as to why the boating world hasn't given it a go and perfected the system or w.e. I'm not trying to sound or be a dick genuinely trying to get some info and learn

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2 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Possibly because Webasto do not support such a system?

This heat exchanger has specially been designed to work with an ebby or Webby, OK webby or ebby might not support it but its a little bit like saying your car didn't come with parking sensors therefore you shouldn't fit aftermarket ones because the manufacturer didn't support it on that model.. yes it will work fine and dandy. It may not be supported mind you. I used to have a Peugeot 106 when I was a kid I put some 16 inch alloys on it, the alloys rubber against the rear wheel arches because it wasn't designed for such big wheels. I knocked the wheel arches out and it worked perfect looked good and was safe https://www.melloronline.co.uk/Water_Heater_Matrices/10715/Webasto_Motor_Home_Plate_Heat_Exchanger_with_Mixer_Valve_and_hose_connections_inc.html

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Possibly because the canal leisure operators including the large hire fleets have come up with the best system since getting going in the 1970's, ..calorifier..it works, deals with supply from several methods, stove back boiler can be added to that in the winter, a solar powered 12v immersion van be added for the Summer....

The solutions are all out there if you search, rather than try a system that would not be suitable for 99% of boaters.

By all means come back and sell me a fully tested and commercially successful unit once your idea is adopted by lots of satisfied boaters.

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10 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

I'm more than intrigued, as like I said earlier it is only today I've even heard of this idea, after 45 years of boating experience. 

 

Which heat exchanger exactly, please? And what evidence do you have it was designed specifically to work with a Webby?

I'm really struggling to find info about it all tbh and some people get relatively sour when heat exchangers and webastos are mentioned in the same sentence. My friend just used a £30 heat exchanger with some hose tails bought from a place that specialises in hose. This is the unit I'd be looking at and after speaking to Stuart their technician he says that he has sold many of them and never had anyone call back about them or complain and when I mentioned pressures etc said the flow and return side.was specifically designed to be ran from a ebby or Webby by that I assume it means just the pressure. And the hot and cold side just have to be careful on the cold flow going in as if the cold goes in to fast it of course isn't in there long enough to get hot or hot enough. The slower the cold in the hotter it will get its just finding the middle ground of hot enough with enough pressure out the other end. The link will be below, I've had many dealings with this company and they know their stuff and are real helpful 

 

https://www.melloronline.co.uk/Water_Heater_Matrices/10715/Webasto_Motor_Home_Plate_Heat_Exchanger_with_Mixer_Valve_and_hose_connections_inc.html

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24 minutes ago, matty40s said:

MELLOR also doesnt state how much power the blower unit (2nd optional.....meaning the first is pretty much needed) require.

20211020_213029.jpg

I had looked at that but didn't even know what a blower was until this evening, I assumed at first it meant like a fan that circulates the air. Which is why I'm trying to see if I can find people that have done it and see if it works. But also look at the newer models that can give out say 1.3kw rather than 5kw which I'd assume means it needs less rads, only assuming mind you. I found this earlier and was intruiged 

Screenshot_20211020-174057_Chrome.jpg

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