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Are Narrowboats getting uglier?


PD1964

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10 minutes ago, PD1964 said:

 Please do it, you may think I’m not interested in reinventing the wheel, but I’m always interested in ideas that may work or not. Also remember that Ricky and any his crew have never owned a Narrowboat but are at the forefront of electrical propulsion and are producing ground braking boats. As shown at this years Crick show. So please just do it.

A310D28A-C9A2-4495-B0E8-219AAD3C4C91.jpeg.f794b3222ec6d71d3dae8e0e7480d44a.jpeg

 

Finesse are certainly the leaders in electric (series hybrid) propulsion, it's one reason I chose them. I haven't regretted that decision for a minute -- as Sarah said they're not only really nice guys who care about what they're doing, but driven by a desire to do things *properly* not cut corners to save a penny or two -- which suits me down to the ground.

 

I think "Time of LiFe" was justified in winning the "best widebeam" prize -- even if it made some traditionalists foam at the mouth, there were a *lot* of really good (widebeam!) ideas in there, and some excellent craftsmanship, and it might not look like anything seen before (much better than Whitefield though...) but it looks like a great solution to the owner's requirements. I think Ricky's term of "widebeam yacht" was pretty accurate, a lot of the style and some features obviously come from there rather than the narrowboat world.

 

I'll certainly think about doing a thread in the boatbuilding section, but want to talk to Ricky first about what he would be happy for me to reveal and what details he wants to keep under wraps 😉

Edited by IanD
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1 hour ago, PD1964 said:

The design of “Time for Life” will be copied, just like Collingwood’s Euro Cruiser square stern has been copied.

 All good designs get copied.👍

 

Square sterns aren't new.

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1 hour ago, StephenA said:

 

Square sterns aren't new.

I know, but the 60ftx12ft Liverpool/Collingwood Euro-Cruiser design has been copied to optimise living space and to get shells VAT except.

Edited by PD1964
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14 hours ago, PD1964 said:

The design of “Time for Life” will be copied, just like Collingwood’s Euro Cruiser square stern has been copied.

 All good designs get copied.👍

True, but there's a difference between copying a look and copying how things are built having put a lot of time and effort into working out how to do this properly...

 

For example anyone can throw together an electric drive system, but developing one that works really well including customised components takes a lot of time and effort and money and trial and error, and copying the end result instead of putting in the effort yourself is -- in my view -- distinctly dodgy, it's what the Chinese get accused of all the time.

 

But then I've been involved in developing new technology for many years including all the issues to do with patents and trade secrets and intellectual property, unlike some people who just seem to think copying is OK... 😉

Edited by IanD
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Mel Davis built a boat based on reasearch by Strathclyde University and the owner's specifications. The reason it has not been widely adopted for other narrowboats is that is not cost effective. Most narrowboats don't go anywhere; all the rest go virtually nowhere prticularly when compared to the average commercial vessel.

 

The published reasearch is invariably (?) for open water; it's debatable whether any of it applies to narrow, shallow, muddy canals.

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I should also point out that the kind of "your boat is rubbish, mine's much better" reaction of some posters on this thread -- and the "why are you trying to make us do what you want" sniping on this and many others, especially anything that isn't "traditional" -- is another reason not to post build pictures and information... 😞

 

I wouldn't want some of the boats that have been posted as paragons of design and happen to think that the TT design is more elegant and "fit for purpose" than most, but that's my opinion, and I don't want to spend lots of time defending it against people who think that "traditional is always best" and "modern design and technology is rubbish".

 

Modern technology is what lets people post on and read CWDF -- and incidentally it's almost certain that every word you read on it has got there via a chip I designed... 😉

 

Edited by IanD
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7 minutes ago, Martin Nicholas said:

Mel Davis built a boat based on reasearch by Strathclyde University and the owner's specifications. The reason it has not been widely adopted for other narrowboats is that is not cost effective. Most narrowboats don't go anywhere; all the rest go virtually nowhere prticularly when compared to the average commercial vessel.

 

The published reasearch is invariably (?) for open water; it's debatable whether any of it applies to narrow, shallow, muddy canals.

The "eco hull" was obviously inappropriate for canals, the bow structure in particular works for high-speed ships in deep water but not low-speed ones in shallow water.

 

Rudders only see the water immediately around them and what the prop pushes over them; what works in deep water (if done for low-speed vessels like trawlers and tugs, like the rudder design I posted) will work just as well in canals.

 

It's important to recognise when situations are different and when they're similar, because this makes the difference between something working and not... 😉

Edited by IanD
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38 minutes ago, IanD said:

I should also point out that the kind of "your boat is rubbish, mine's much better" reaction of some posters on this thread -- and the "why are you trying to make us do what you want" sniping on this and many others, especially anything that isn't "traditional" -- is another reason not to post build pictures and information... 😞

 

I wouldn't want some of the boats that have been posted as paragons of design and happen to think that the TT design is more elegant and "fit for purpose" than most, but that's my opinion, and I don't want to spend lots of time defending it against people who think that "traditional is always best" and "modern design and technology is rubbish".

 

Modern technology is what lets people post on and read CWDF -- and incidentally it's almost certain that every word you read on it has got there via a chip I designed... 😉

 

 

You may have recived more positive comments about your newbuild, which I think is very attractive, if you had not chosen to post it on a thread entitled "Are Narrowboats getting uglier?" which may be encouraging some of the less helpful observations.

 

 

 

Edited by David Schweizer
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1 hour ago, IanD said:

I should also point out that the kind of "your boat is rubbish, mine's much better" reaction of some posters on this thread -- and the "why are you trying to make us do what you want" sniping on this and many others, especially anything that isn't "traditional" -- is another reason not to post build pictures and information... 😞

 

I wouldn't want some of the boats that have been posted as paragons of design and happen to think that the TT design is more elegant and "fit for purpose" than most, but that's my opinion, and I don't want to spend lots of time defending it against people who think that "traditional is always best" and "modern design and technology is rubbish".

 

Modern technology is what lets people post on and read CWDF -- and incidentally it's almost certain that every word you read on it has got there via a chip I designed... 😉

 

 

Why feel compelled to 'defend' anything? There is actually no compulsion to respond to criticism (constructive or other wise), Unless of course you just cannot help yourself doing it???

 

I think some of us appreciate that boats come in all sorts of shapes sizes (and now propulsion methods too) and are interested in seeing the boat you are having built under construction and in it's final form when it lands on the water.

 

Boat design has moved on from the days of moving pottery from Stoke on Trent, if some people don't appreciate that then that is their problem. No body else's.

 

 

 

 

Edited by The Happy Nomad
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2 hours ago, David Schweizer said:

 

You may have recived more positive comments about your newbuild, which I think is very attractive, if you had not chosen to post it on a thread entitled "Are Narrowboats getting uglier?" which may be encouraging some of the less helpful observations.

 

 

 

You're probably correct. Still doubtful about posting a build diary and getting inundated by "that's modern not trad, <xxx> is much better" comments, especially from people who seem to think that doing things the old way is *always* good and the new way is *always* bad -- if I thought that, I wouldn't be building a hybrid boat... 😉

 

If people want to live on boats and stick with 50 year old technology for power and electrics (or 100 year old hull designs...) then that's their business -- I might not want to do the same, but I wouldn't say they're *wrong* do do it this way. But many of them seem to think that anyone else who wants to do something different *is* wrong, because it's not what *they* want...

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To all the people arguing against development and trying new ideas and in favour of "traditional" narrowboats.

You do realise that unless you think we should only have wooden horse drawn narrowboats you have already lost the argument.

 

There has always been development of narrowboats driven by a desire to do things better, increased understanding of how things work, and developments in technology.

It is likely that many things that were proposed or actually attempted didn't work, that doesn't mean that all attempts at improvement won't work.

 

  • Greenie 2
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34 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

IF it gave the original owners happiness then yes it did, I doubt we will ever know the answer

If it did it wasn't for very long as it was up for sale within about 12 months.

This I think is the 3rd time its been up for sale.

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6 minutes ago, Loddon said:

If it did it wasn't for very long as it was up for sale within about 12 months.

This I think is the 3rd time its been up for sale.

I wouldn't have thought the last two owners lost so much on it as the first owner.

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21 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

I wouldn't have thought the last two owners lost so much on it as the first owner.

They cant have, its often the case that  trying something out of the ordinary in a new build causes huge depreciation when you come to sell.

Edited by Loddon
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17 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

Why worry what others post, just ignore them, you don't have to argue with everyone.

As in so many other "non-traditional" subjects (such as EVs and electric/hybrid boats), it's not always easy to take the "sticks and stones" approach when posts are based on misinformation, ignorance, entrenched attitudes, are just plain factually wrong, or are saying "this wouldn't suit me so it must be wrong" -- and it would certainly be difficult to do on a thread I'd started about my boat... 😉

Edited by IanD
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Narrowboats never were pretty. A tin box welded on to a steel hull. Usually painted in garish colours with painted pictures of flowers and fairy tale castles and various kitchen utensils hanging on the sides or sitting on the roof. As for the engines!!!

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1 hour ago, pete.i said:

Narrowboats never were pretty. A tin box welded on to a steel hull. Usually painted in garish colours with painted pictures of flowers and fairy tale castles and various kitchen utensils hanging on the sides or sitting on the roof. As for the engines!!!

 

 

Indeed. The engines were "Bleeding edge" new technology at the time they elbowed horses off the cut.

 

Or off the towpath really, I suppose!

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On 16/06/2022 at 17:58, PD1964 said:

Please don’t take this the wrong way, it’s a serious suggestion. Why don’t you start a Thread on the boat building section, highlighting your boat build and your ideas, instead of putting them on various threads(ugly boat, electric boat) It would be interesting to see your boats progress and your ideas being developed and tested👍👍

Not many, as people who want boats today don’t want the wasted space, their boat smelling of diesel fumes and are fitting electric motors.

 

Also there are currently no suitable low revving engines that meet the emissions standards. ☹️

 

Somehow a Beta 43 in a dedicated engine room doesn't cut it.

 

Perhaps they will make a comeback for people who want to show off their electric motors and lithium batteries... 🤣😂

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On 17/06/2022 at 11:52, The Happy Nomad said:

Boat design has moved on from the days of moving pottery from Stoke on Trent, if some people don't appreciate that then that is their problem. No body else's.

 

Ah the Milton Maid, now that was an ugly narrowboat... 😂🤣

download (1).jpeg

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