Weed Hatch Prop Fouls

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

18 minutes ago, dmr said:

 

The camping chair frame is 16mm diameter, which is much much more than my bolt croppers can do, and with the croppers down the weedhatch the amount they can open is reduced even more.

 

There is still a little bit round the prop, will have another go at shifting it when it stops raining, but just now I am hoping for more rain.

If you get to the end of your tether with it, why not rent a set of big cutters or buy?

I can always pick something up and drive over with it ?

[Detling]

I have had good results go with a tree pruning saw, it copes with most things but doubt it would win with a chair frame. It was great for a big builder tonne bag which are virtually indestructible.

[dmr]

30 minutes ago, Goliath said:

If you get to the end of your tether with it, why not rent a set of big cutters or buy?

I can always pick something up and drive over with it ?

 

I am fairly confident that the technique we used on the big bit will work again, but with thin strong cord rather than rope. As you said,I could use a spanish windlass if required but I suspect using that length of 3x2 as a lever should be enough, if the tubing was soft enough to wrap onto the shaft then it must be possible to unwrap it.

 

Four really bad prop fouls this year, all on the Rochdale, think I might try to develop my own version of the Bargee Bill prop cleaner. That could be designed over a few pints.

[MtB]

Is there any mileage in cilling the stern in a lock, for better access?

[dmr]

8 minutes ago, MtB said:

Is there any mileage in cilling the stern in a lock, for better access?

 

The locks here are deep which makes that a lot more tricky/dangerous as I would have to stand in quite deep water. When we had the first bad foul on Thursday some of the pounds were very low so I did briefly think about emptying one, but then it would be even harder to find the water to fill it back up. I'm quite confident I can sort it out. We are stuck here for a week, maybe two due to the issues on the summit so there is no hurry.

 

Its very frustrating, we are just back in the land of good pubs and beer but with Covid increasing again we really need to think about isolating ourselves a bit.

[Theo]

1 hour ago, MtB said:

Is there any mileage in cilling the stern in a lock, for better access?

Absolutely not.  As soon as you get lift from the cill on the bottom of the boat the stability is all shot to hell and the boat tips over to one side or the other.  This could be mitigated if you managed to get to the forward end of the cill and then the boat would be like sitting in a drydock.  The problem then, if you have not already submerged the bow, is that the boat could easily slip off.  Please don't try this.

 

You could always try a staircase where you could sit the boat down on the invert.  Nice and level.  But then you have the possibility of damaging the bottom of the boat by putting lots of wieight on a small pointy object.

 

N

[magnetman]

Bigger slower rotating prop definitely makes a difference.

 

I did extensive boating in tandem with my mum in the nineties. We went to a lot of different places on the canals. I had a 55ft NB with a RN DM2 in it and a large prop she had a 55ft NB with a Beta BV1505 in it and a small prop. 

 

The  boats went to exactly the same places but she had a lot more prop fouls than I did. 

 

In fact I rarely had any problems at all in that respect. 

 

Maybe I knew how to control the boat better but I reckon it was the propeller size. 

 

It was on her boat that I did the tailshaft disconnect trick for a bad prop foul and it worked wonders. 

 

Never needed to do it on my own boat. 

[MtB]

14 minutes ago, Theo said:

Absolutely not.  As soon as you get lift from the cill on the bottom of the boat the stability is all shot to hell and the boat tips over to one side or the other.  This could be mitigated if you managed to get to the forward end of the cill and then the boat would be like sitting in a drydock.  The problem then, if you have not already submerged the bow, is that the boat could easily slip off.  Please don't try this.

 

You could always try a staircase where you could sit the boat down on the invert.  Nice and level.  But then you have the possibility of damaging the bottom of the boat by putting lots of wieight on a small pointy object.

 

N

 

Calm down!

 

If anyone has the experience, caution and engineering sensibility to do this successfully, it will be that nice Mr DMR.

 

 

[dmr]

5 minutes ago, Theo said:

Absolutely not.  As soon as you get lift from the cill on the bottom of the boat the stability is all shot to hell and the boat tips over to one side or the other.  This could be mitigated if you managed to get to the forward end of the cill and then the boat would be like sitting in a drydock.  The problem then, if you have not already submerged the bow, is that the boat could easily slip off.  Please don't try this.

 

You could always try a staircase where you could sit the boat down on the invert.  Nice and level.  But then you have the possibility of damaging the bottom of the boat by putting lots of wieight on a small pointy object.

 

N

 

I have heard of people doing this in the little staircase lock in Birmingham (Brades). I assume you would have to empty it first and check for any big obstructions before going in.

No staircase on the Rochdale, dunno if the drydock is open again yet, but I can fix it here.

When we got the tyre round the prop in Gosty Hill the good people of Hawne lifted the back of the boat with the engine hoist to get the prop just out of the water and then used levers down the weedhatch. Maybe some sort of portable  jacking system could be devised to shift the really bad fouls, that could be an enterprise for RCR.

It occurs to me that in 4 of our 6 really bad prop fouls we have been boating with Goliath, a bad man, he creates prop fouls and hangovers. 😀

 

Its only just over £20 for a metre length of 20mm stainless bar, I might try and invent the perfect tool over the winter. It could maybe double up as an emergency mooring pin for when you get caught on a river in flood. The working boat folk with no weedhatch do pretty well with a strong boat-hook so I need to do a stronger sharper version.

[dmr]

11 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

Calm down!

 

If anyone has the experience, caution and engineering sensibility to do this successfully, it will be that nice Mr DMR.

 

 

 

Thank you. We have had a very hard couple of days and one slightly difficult day, maybe self inflicted as we tackled the Rochdale after a dry spell, but that gets us here to Littleborough which is a good place. I can see the hills and the the summit is only a flight of locks away...when CRT put some water in it I propose that a project for next summer should be to get Reginald up the Rochdale and down the Huddersfield narrow 😀. A trip up the Macclesfield and down the Peak Forest and Ashton could be included.

[TheBiscuits]

Just now, dmr said:

I propose that a project for next summer should be to get Reginald up the Rochdale and down the Huddersfield narrow 😀. A trip up the Macclesfield and down the Peak Forest and Ashton could be included.

 

Seconded.  Mike was asking about the Hudd shallow a few years ago - hasn't he been yet?

[dmr]

Just now, TheBiscuits said:

 

Seconded.  Mike was asking about the Hudd shallow a few years ago - hasn't he been yet?

 

No, he has also not done the Caldon and not even been to the Holy Inadaquate. We need to do a grand cruise of the "near North"

[MtB]

1 minute ago, dmr said:

 

Thank you. We have had a very hard couple of days and one slightly difficult day, maybe self inflicted as we tackled the Rochdale after a dry spell, but that gets us here to Littleborough which is a good place. I can see the hills and the the summit is only a flight of locks away...when CRT put some water in it I propose that a project for next summer should be to get Reginald up the Rochdale and down the Huddersfield narrow 😀. A trip up the Macclesfield and down the Peak Forest and Ashton could be included.

 

🙀🙀🙀

 

Reginald struggled to get into the marina at Fenny Compton, needing to bump viciously over some cill or other across the entrance. Not sure your idea is feasible, as I doubt I'll ever get him out! 

 

OTOH I'm sure they must have a crane pad in there somewhere..... 🤣

[dmr]

2 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

🙀🙀🙀

 

Reginald struggled to get into the marina at Fenny Compton, needing to bump viciously over some cill or other across the entrance. Not sure your idea is feasible, as I doubt I'll ever get him out! 

 

OTOH I'm sure they must have a crane pad in there somewhere..... 🤣

 

The Oxford is a muddy ditch and getting rapidly worse. The Northern canals were generally deeper, they are silted in places but that can  be handled. The Peak Forest is claimed to be shallow but we find it ok. A couple of bits on the Macc are not too good but in general we found the Oxford to be the shallowest canal we traveled this year, its now even worse than the Ashby. Can't speak for the HNC because we don't fit. How wide is Reg????? Will maybe have to return Leeds and Liverpool instead.

[MtB]

1 minute ago, dmr said:

How wide is Reg?????

 

Dunno, it was fiendish difficult to measure with plumb bobs but I reckon about 7ft 1/2in. 

 

Fits through Awbridge and Napton fine now, but not first lock on Llangollen, if that's any indication. Whereas got badly stuck in Awbridge pre-slimming down. 

[dmr]

Can't remember, do you have a side hatch on both sides of the engine room? that makes it very easy to get a good measurement at one position, length of 4x2 and a couple of big squares.. HNC is not going to work, will need to bring two of your boats, one to go HNC, the other L&L 😀

[ditchcrawler]

1 hour ago, dmr said:

 

I have heard of people doing this in the little staircase lock in Birmingham (Brades). I assume you would have to empty it first and check for any big obstructions before going in.

No staircase on the Rochdale, dunno if the drydock is open again yet, but I can fix it here.

When we got the tyre round the prop in Gosty Hill the good people of Hawne lifted the back of the boat with the engine hoist to get the prop just out of the water and then used levers down the weedhatch. Maybe some sort of portable  jacking system could be devised to shift the really bad fouls, that could be an enterprise for RCR.

It occurs to me that in 4 of our 6 really bad prop fouls we have been boating with Goliath, a bad man, he creates prop fouls and hangovers. 😀

 

Its only just over £20 for a metre length of 20mm stainless bar, I might try and invent the perfect tool over the winter. It could maybe double up as an emergency mooring pin for when you get caught on a river in flood. The working boat folk with no weedhatch do pretty well with a strong boat-hook so I need to do a stronger sharper version.

On the Walsall locks from Andy Tidy's Video 9-48 in

[dmr]

Nice video, one of the blokes looks a bit like you 😀

[ditchcrawler]

1 minute ago, dmr said:

  one of the blokes looks a bit like you 😀

Ye, sorry about that

[Stroudwater1]

16 hours ago, blackrose said:

 

That's basically it. Use the boat's momentum to take you through areas of litter, bags, etc that you can see on the surface, and to avoid the bigger objects stay in the middle where it's a bit deeper and you're less likely to pick something up.

 

It's not foolproof but it will reduce the frequency of fouling.

Blackrose, you do need to try and appreciate that the Rochdale is  different from most of the rest of the network. There are many miles of canal with huge amounts of litter clothing plastic bags etc - much semi submerged. It still appears to be  the main source of refuse disposal for many round Newton Heath and above. The canal post restoration  is shallow, and the shallow bottom is similarly full of all sorts of rubbish much metallic with wire not possible to see. The locks are very frequent so your technique which is good in other areas won’t work. Pictured are the floating debris at many of the locks, much is just under water though 
 

This is the plastic and clothing debris that we removed from our friends  boats prop this year. They are experienced boaters going very slowly and carefully though this area. The prop size does seem to make a difference. 
 

it’s  bad luck more than bad judgment often with fouls on The Rochdale. 
 

The hacksaw was useful as there usually was room between the blades to cut. Those knipex wire cutters do look very handy. A serrated bread knife can be useful for tough fabric and discarded fishing keep nets. 
 

It really needs a gang regularly going through with rakes and  clever tools  pulling out the debris. Sad as it’s a great canal. 

 

 

16 hours ago, blackrose said:

 

 

16 hours ago, blackrose said:

 

 

Edited October 19, 2021 by Stroudwater1
Duplicated- sorry

[MrsM]

3 hours ago, Stroudwater1 said:

Blackrose, you do need to try and appreciate that the Rochdale is  different from most of the rest of the network. There are many miles of canal with huge amounts of litter clothing plastic bags etc - much semi submerged. It still appears to be  the main source of refuse disposal for many round Newton Heath and above. The canal post restoration  is shallow, and the shallow bottom is similarly full of all sorts of rubbish much metallic with wire not possible to see. The locks are very frequent so your technique which is good in other areas won’t work. Pictured are the floating debris at many of the locks, much is just under water though 
 

This is the plastic and clothing debris that we removed from our friends  boats prop this year. They are experienced boaters going very slowly and carefully though this area. The prop size does seem to make a difference. 
 

it’s  bad luck more than bad judgment often with fouls on The Rochdale. 
 

The hacksaw was useful as there usually was room between the blades to cut. Those knipex wire cutters do look very handy. A serrated bread knife can be useful for tough fabric and discarded fishing keep nets. 
 

It really needs a gang regularly going through with rakes and  clever tools  pulling out the debris. Sad as it’s a great canal. 

 

 

 

 

So sad to see how the waterways are treated as dustbins in some areas. It was similar going through Leicester a couple of weeks ago. Particularly poignant when you see the waterfowl that are trying to live among the trash and muck.

Edited October 19, 2021 by MrsM
This has put me off venturing on to the Rochdale next year!

[ditchcrawler]

11 minutes ago, MrsM said:

So sad to see how the waterways are treated as dustbins in some areas. It was similar going through Leicester a couple of weeks ago. Particularly poignant when you see the waterfowl that are trying to live among the trash and muck.

Its not new, over 30 years ago when I was first interested in canals and worked with a chap who as a kid his house backed onto the canal. It was a common answer to getting rid of stuff, just bung it in the cut.

 

[JamesWoolcock]

12 hours ago, dmr said:

 

I have heard of people doing this in the little staircase lock in Birmingham (Brades). I assume you would have to empty it first and check for any big obstructions before going in.

No staircase on the Rochdale, dunno if the drydock is open again yet, but I can fix it here.

When we got the tyre round the prop in Gosty Hill the good people of Hawne lifted the back of the boat with the engine hoist to get the prop just out of the water and then used levers down the weedhatch. Maybe some sort of portable  jacking system could be devised to shift the really bad fouls, that could be an enterprise for RCR.

It occurs to me that in 4 of our 6 really bad prop fouls we have been boating with Goliath, a bad man, he creates prop fouls and hangovers. 😀

 

Its only just over £20 for a metre length of 20mm stainless bar, I might try and invent the perfect tool over the winter. It could maybe double up as an emergency mooring pin for when you get caught on a river in flood. The working boat folk with no weedhatch do pretty well with a strong boat-hook so I need to do a stronger sharper version.

There's no weedhatch on MARQUIS and when I picked up the biggest ball of crap trying to moor up at Littleborough in a strong breeze two years ago, it was three days before we got that off. Much of it was that fine green netting you see on the outside of scaffolding. Very fortunately the ex Royal Navy guy two boats back was a hobby diver and a great help in his kit, for the price of much Guinness in the evening. After most was off, we were stuck with the remainder so tight on the shaft, that nothing looked as if it was going to get it off. Fortunately, again, the boat has a Fenner Coupling on the prop shaft which we undid and and slid the shaft out an inch. That did it and we were free.

[Mike Todd]

20 hours ago, MtB said:

Is there any mileage in cilling the stern in a lock, for better access?

I was taught to do this by one of the last working canal boatmen. Back in those days hire boats did not have weed hatches and the technique came in handy the day we picked up a load of barbed wire in the Wolverhampton 21. We were much more naive/blase in those days. Would not want to need to try it today!

[dmr]

On 18/10/2021 at 13:03, blackrose said:

There are two ways to approach the issue of fouled props. The methods given above at all good for getting stuff off your prop but the other approach is avoiding getting stuff wrapped around your prop in the first place. Prevention is better than cure.

 

Sometimes of course it's unavoidable. I used to moor in west London and some "locals" regard the canal as a legitimate dumping site. But if your prop is getting fouled every time you move then you're doing something wrong.

 

I won't go into the techniques used to avoid or prevent fouled props here as I'm not trying to teach anyone to suck eggs, but the way a boat is moved in polluted water including knowing when to disengage/re-engage gear makes all the difference to how often your prop will get fouled.

 

In some cases the rubbish is so bad or the canal so shallow that coasting through in neutral is not an option, you have to take a chance and push through with the engine, or rope through, or possibly both. 

 

It is not possible to known where to disengage gear, I suppose you could not use the engine at all and bow haul the entire run. 😀

 

Also there is not always the concept of keeping to the centre of the channel, there is just a narrow channel  just wide enough for a boat, though I know somebody who does manage to squeaze a widebeam through. The "narrows" are also in the roughest area where rubbish is very likely, including a couple of footbridges to drop stuff from.

 

When the canal was abandoned the council filled it in and concreted it over leaving just a shallow "water feature" to meet the water supply obligations. During restoration the funding ran out so to restore through navigation I believe the restorers drove a digger along the towpath and dug out a bare minimum channel to get boats through. The funding to complete the restoration has still not arrived.