COP 26 Announcement that 'New Gas Boilers' will be banned from 2035

[peterboat]

30 minutes ago, pete.i said:

 

And all the ships burning that heavy fuel oil that brings us our lifestyles. The things that are being proposed at the moment will not make the slightest difference. We will have to go back to the stone age to reverse climate change, if indeed climate change is actually happening or if climate change is not one of the natural progressions in the planet's climate cycles which have happened for the last millions of years. Making me get rid of my gas boiler wont change a thing.

I think you need to look at splash 24/7 and learn something about shipping maritime laws are changing their emissions different cleaner methods of propulsion is already happening they unlike us are cleaning up their act 

[Jen-in-Wellies]

12 hours ago, dmr said:

 

I have a friend who is a scythe geek and he has given me an extensive lesson, its a whole new world. The most surprising bit is how often you sharpen them, wearing the stone on a belt, plus all the slightly different blades for different jobs. The top scythe makes are just like the top boat builders.

Does he look like this by any chance?

 

By Scanned from The Art of Discworld by Harry Blue5, Fair use, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?curid=33217967

[dmr]

5 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

Does he look like this by any chance?

 

By Scanned from The Art of Discworld by Harry Blue5, Fair use, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?curid=33217967

 

Obviously Not done the training course, Nobody should ever carry a scythe like that (except for Mr Reaper and his imitators) 😀

[mrsmelly]

3 hours ago, DandV said:

You do realise this the origin of the term "going to the loo"

Sailing ships of yore, had the sit down toilets around the bow sprit, at the head of the ship, hence "the heads"

But for less serious business by males you just excused yourself for a trip to the leeward rail. "off to the lee", pronounced loo.

The windward rail would not be a good choice for such a task.

Quite correct, hence NOT peeing in the wind. Unlike the measures our government and others are making to appease the peasants.

[ditchcrawler]

9 hours ago, DandV said:

You do realise this the origin of the term "going to the loo"

Sailing ships of yore, had the sit down toilets around the bow sprit, at the head of the ship, hence "the heads"

But for less serious business by males you just excused yourself for a trip to the leeward rail. "off to the lee", pronounced loo.

The windward rail would not be a good choice for such a task.

Its surprising how you can get your own back when you do that from the top deck of a gas platform if you don't take care, its not a wet leg but a bit more

[Graham Davis]

6 hours ago, peterboat said:

I think you need to look at splash 24/7 and learn something about shipping maritime laws are changing their emissions different cleaner methods of propulsion is already happening they unlike us are cleaning up their act 

 

When we were on holiday in Devon in June we were talking to one of our daughter's friends who is a Cryogenic Electro-Mechanical Engineer, who oversees the fitting of the "break-safe" couplings to large ships and tankers which are now using CNG as their fuel. The coupling has to be able to close in milli-seconds due to the dangers CNG can cause if it escapes. He travels all over the world doing this at incredible expense and said there are very few engineers qualified in the field and even less companies designing the equipment. 

[Theo]

On 17/10/2021 at 11:25, agg221 said:

I would say evolved rather than fundamentally changed.

 

The swing to the Conservatives in North East since then has seen a shift in emphasis from Liverpool and Manchester towards Teesside which is now both a Freeport and a Hydrogen Hub. A new site has also been added in South Wales.

 

There are several different aspects to hydrogen. Hydrogen goes by various colour names depending on source. Brown hydrogen is made by heating water and coke together, forming a mixture of carbon monoxide and hydrogen (the old towns gas) and is still industrially significant, particularly on Teesside. Green hydrogen is made by electrolysis of water and is seen as clean and sustainable, so long as you are using surplus renewable electricity to make it. Blue hydrogen is the same but specifically made using offshore wind turbines.

 

Leaving aside the challenges for the moment, and they are considerable, the planned applications are where you need a higher energy density than can be delivered with battery storage. Current areas of interest include rail, flight and shipping, and possibly heavy road haulage. The question is how you use it, which is in part a matter of semantics but it is actually at the heart of one of the current areas of debate. If you burn hydrogen, either for domestic heat or to run an internal combustion engine, it is very simple and cost-effective at point of use, but whilst it creates no carbon emissions it does emit nitrous oxides as the oxygen and nitrogen react at temperature. This NOx is nowhere near as significant a greenhouse gas as carbon based gases but it is still there. The alternative is to use a fuel cell for motive power and rely on electrical heating but this has major technical and commercial barriers - the fuel cell uses enough platinum for this to be infeasible to scale to the current requirements (my first job was developing fuel cell catalysts for Johnson Matthey). Therefore, what it comes down to is whether targets are defined as 'net zero carbon emissions' or 'net zero emissions' and if the latter whether offsetting the NOx emissions is deemed acceptable. It's a political debate and I personally have little interest in what the decision is, but I will probably be part of working out how to implement it so I do take a significant interest in knowing where the thinking ends up.

 

Alec

Coming late to the discussion: Blue hydrogen is made from natural gas and is effectively a fossil fuel.  Hydrogen made using elecricity from renewable energy of whatever variety is Green.

[TheBiscuits]

1 minute ago, Theo said:

Hydrogen made using elecricity from renewable energy of whatever variety is Green.

 

This is true, but the bit that always gets glossed over is that you only get around a quarter of the power back when you've finished. 

 

It's thermodynamic nonsense but the current UK plan seems to be import most of the green hydrogen from the middle east in tankers because they get more sunshine on the solar farms so it'll be cheaper!

[Alan de Enfield]

 

Homeowners in England and Wales will be offered subsidies of £5,000 from next April to help them to replace old gas boilers with low carbon heat pumps.

The grants are part of the government's £3.9bn plan to reduce carbon emissions from heating homes and other buildings.

 

Heat pump grants worth £5,000 to help replace gas boilers - BBC News

 

 

New Government measures to replace gas boilers with heat pumps will be compulsory in the long-term, the international trade secretary has said.

Anne-Marie Trevelyan said that while the Government’s drive to replace boilers with heat pumps will be optional to begin with, there will come “a point at which that changes”.

“In the short term of course this is a voluntary scheme,” she told Sky News. “But every 10-15 years we all get a new boiler so as part of the transition, this journey to net-zero, as we as domestic citizens make changes to our homes these support frameworks are there but also we will be driving those changes in regulation.”

Only 90,000 households will receive vouchers to help with the cost of removing their gas boilers under a scheme to be announced by the Government today.

But Ms Trevelyan added that there are already schemes across local authorities, totalling billions of pounds, to help those on the lowest incomes to de-carbonise.

“It’s going to help as we move through this transition in our domestic heating arrangements to help those who want to crack on now and indeed over many years ahead to change their boilers to a green energy solution,” she said.

 

Politics latest news: Replacing gas boilers with heat pumps will be compulsory in long-term, suggests minister (telegraph.co.uk)

[GUMPY]

Well that is a load of nothing.

At present you can get RHI payments of up to £7k over 7 years for renewable heating, if you go for the £5k you won't be able to get the RHI payments.

I tried to get RHI for my solar thermal and was told that because I had the full GHG payment I would not get any payments from RHI.

The same will apply with this new scheme.

So all in all there is no benefit and they are taking £2k away from applicants😱

 

 

Oh and just to add in my case it's not just replacing the boiler it's replacing the whole heating system as the pipework is microbore and too small for ASHP to work.

So at least the best part of £15k plus all the disruption☹️

[GUMPY]

We will fit a new gas boiler in about 4years when the old one is 15 years old  and that should see me out.

[ditchcrawler]

1 minute ago, Loddon said:

We will fit a new gas boiler in about 4years when the old one is 15 years old  and that should see me out.

That's my plan as well but leaving it as close as possible to the cut off date

[Alan de Enfield]

10 minutes ago, Loddon said:

Oh and just to add in my case it's not just replacing the boiler it's replacing the whole heating system as the pipework is microbore and too small for ASHP to work.

So at least the best part of £15k plus all the disruption☹️

 

We are in a simular position but we use Kerosene and not gas.

 

Upstairs CH piping is 10mm, downstairs is 15mm and we have been quoted a 'provisional' £17,000 for installation of a 'working ASHP'.

 

Tain't gonna happen !

[mrsmelly]

6 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

That's my plan as well but leaving it as close as possible to the cut off date

Ive just had a complete new oil fired system installed. Its a worcester Bosch boiler of a similar type to what my mum had until she went into care, it was 24 years old and working without fault. My sister has the same oil boiler at 15 years old and working faultlessly. Parts are readily available should even the older ones need repair. They are great boilers. Even if fuel doubled it will be cheaper than spending megga thousands on a ashp compatible system. The full system I was quoted was circa 20k and thats on top of the equal amounts to insulate the property b4 you start. Its funny that governments only mention replacing gas boilers as plenty use oil and solid fuel.

2 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

We are in a simular position but we use Kerosene and not gas.

 

Upstairs CH piping is 10mm, downstairs is 15mm and we have been quoted a 'provisional' £17,000 for installation of a 'working ASHP'.

 

Tain't gonna happen !

Similar to the 20k ish I was quoted.

Edited October 19, 2021 by mrsmelly

[GUMPY]

20 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

That's my plan as well but leaving it as close as possible to the cut off date

You plan on living past 100 😯

[Thomas C King]

On 18/10/2021 at 08:45, cuthound said:

Unfortunately a flat battery weighs the same as a fully charged one.

 

Almost the same https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/34421/does-the-mass-of-a-battery-change-when-charged-discharged

[Jerra]

On 18/10/2021 at 10:14, pete.i said:

if indeed climate change is actually happening or if climate change is not one of the natural progressions in the planet's climate cycles which have happened for the last millions of years. 

The vast majority of scientists and the data show climate change is happening unless you have some unrevealed data.

 

With regard to climate cycles, a number of things.   Firstly in the 50s and 60s the natural cycles suggested we were heading for an ice age, this is against the natural timings of the cycles.  Secondly this is happening far faster than natural cycles have done in the past.  Thirdly can we afford to sit back and say it a natural cycle leaving it too late to even try if it isn't a natural cycle.

[Thomas C King]

2 minutes ago, Jerra said:

The vast majority of scientists and the data show climate change is happening unless you have some unrevealed data.

 

With regard to climate cycles, a number of things.   Firstly in the 50s and 60s the natural cycles suggested we were heading for an ice age, this is against the natural timings of the cycles.  Secondly this is happening far faster than natural cycles have done in the past.  Thirdly can we afford to sit back and say it a natural cycle leaving it too late to even try if it isn't a natural cycle.

One of my favorite XKCD comics highlights the difference between natural and unnatural change:

 

https://xkcd.com/1732/

 

On topic. I suppose one saving grace for canals might be the necessary reduction to air-travel, creating higher-demand for UK-holidays. I doubt this will be beneficial to liveaboards though.

Edited October 19, 2021 by Thomas C King

[ditchcrawler]

7 minutes ago, Loddon said:

You plan on living past 100 😯

If possible

No worries then on who to invite to the Wake, they will all be dead before me

[Thomas C King]

6 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

If possible

No worries then on who to invite to the Wake, they will all be dead before me

 

You'll save a fortune on catering.

[Momac]

Unfortunately I don't think the philosophy of ''it will see me out'' is good enough . But I do agree alternative heating solutions like air source for homes have to become competitive with systems that burn fuel at the property. 

 

Its mid october and  we haven't  switched  the central heating on yet.

A dozen years ago 1st October was though of as ''central heating day''

 

It does feel like the trend to milder winters seen in recent years is ongoing .

 

Perhaps one benefit of global warming could be in the future we don't  need to depend so much on central heating in the UK ?

 

 

[ditchcrawler]

13 minutes ago, MartynG said:

Unfortunately I don't think the philosophy of ''it will see me out'' is good enough . But I do agree alternative heating solutions like air source for homes have to become competitive with systems that burn fuel at the property. 

 

Its mid october and  we haven't  switched  the central heating on yet.

A dozen years ago 1st October was though of as ''central heating day''

 

It does feel like the trend to milder winters seen in recent years is ongoing .

 

Perhaps one benefit of global warming could be in the future we don't  need to depend so much on central heating in the UK ?

 

 

I have had mine on. 

[Jen-in-Wellies]

46 minutes ago, MartynG said:

Perhaps one benefit of global warming could be in the future we don't  need to depend so much on central heating in the UK ?

It will be some consolation when the flood water is coming in the front door and going out the back, taking the furniture with it. 😮

[tree monkey]

1 minute ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

It will be some consolation when the flood water is coming in the front door and going out the back, taking the furniture with it. 😮

But the water will be lovely, just right for a dip

[GUMPY]

33 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

I have had mine on. 

Looking back over the last week's data apart from today my boiler has been on for an average of 1hr a day, today it's only been on for 4mins at 7am.

Going to be interesting (for me) to see how well the solar water heating copes now the weather has turned.