Lpg water heater

[agg221]

Just now, Alan de Enfield said:

 

I wouldn't like to say - you can put whatever interpretation on it that you wish.

 

If you are a liveaboard then the GSIUR 'trumps' the BSS anyway.

I was actually asking it as a very practical question - not a liveaboard just a leisure boat, currently weighing up options for heating/hot water and a Morco is currently on the list of possible solutions for that. I want to make sure I don't get caught out by a matter of a few months with no sensible options remaining available, but I have a list of things to do as long as your arm so if there is no rush, I would leave the decision on the hot water solution for a year or so to see how things go, but it looks like that may now be a risk? Like most people, we have an open plan galley/dinette which converts to beds and the Morco would naturally go on the galley wall, which would not meet the GSIUR anyway.

 

One would like to think that reasonable notice would be given of impending changes, enabling people to install what they have bought, but history suggests that is not always the case, hence the question.

 

Alec

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, agg221 said:

 Like most people, we have an open plan galley/dinette which converts to beds and the Morco would naturally go on the galley wall, which would not meet the GSIUR anyway.

 

The GSIUR only applies to liveaboards - I do not understand why and what is the difference between us 'leisure boaters' who spend 6 months living aboard, and someone who spends 12 months aboard - are they at twice the risk, if they only spent 11 months aboard are they no longer liveaboards.

Are you only a liveaboard if you do not have any 'bricks & mortar address ?

 

Like all laws there will always be those on the fringe for whom they do not apply - like council tax where two sides of the street can fall within the juristriction of two local authorities who have £100s difference in council tax for the 'identical' house.

 

Anyway - if you are a leisure / weekend boater then the GSIUR does not apply but the BSS becomes the 'rules'. I cannot see that they could introduce it retrospectively, so keep your ear to the ground and make a decision when you know change is definitely happening.

[MtB]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

I wouldn't like to say - you can put whatever interpretation on it that you wish.

 

If you are a liveaboard then the GSIUR 'trumps' the BSS anyway.

 

It doesn't 'trump' the BSS, it applies in addition to it.

 

The GSIUR permits Morcos in boats provided they are not in sleeping areas or bath/shower rooms. This does not mean should the BSS ban them in future, liveaboards subject to the GSIUR may still have them. 

[agg221]

10 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

The GSIUR only applies to liveaboards - I do not understand why and what is the difference between us 'leisure boaters' who spend 6 months living aboard, and someone who spends 12 months aboard - are they at twice the risk, if they only spent 11 months aboard are they no longer liveaboards.

Are you only a liveaboard if you do not have any 'bricks & mortar address ?

 

Like all laws there will always be those on the fringe for whom they do not apply - like council tax where two sides of the street can fall within the juristriction of two local authorities who have £100s difference in council tax for the 'identical' house.

 

Anyway - if you are a leisure / weekend boater then the GSIUR does not apply but the BSS becomes the 'rules'. I cannot see that they could introduce it retrospectively, so keep your ear to the ground and make a decision when you know change is definitely happening.

 

I don't pretend to understand the difference either. In our case it is the weekend/up to a couple of weeks of holiday variant of leisure boater so it's categorically BSS which applies. I will do as you suggest and if it looks like future installations of the the good old Morco are going to become an issue I will make a rapid decision.

 

Alec

[Tacet]

11 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

Correct.

For many years there has been a derogation in force allowing the use of open-flue instananeous water heaters on the proviso that it was only until realistic alternatives 'room sealed' became readily available on the market.

That derogation is currently still in force, but I am led to believe that it may soon change as the BSS are reviewing the available room-sealed water heaters to see if they are "direct equivalents, and readily available'.

 

 

 

But since open-flued water heaters are clearly not best practice - will not all the insurances be invalidated?😉

 

A curious outcome as most of the navigation authorities that respect the BSS also impose compulsory insurance.

[MtB]

38 minutes ago, Tacet said:

But since open-flued water heaters are clearly not best practice -

 

Eh? Where do you get THAT from?!!

 

Open flue appliances are perfectly safe when installed in accordance with 'best practice'. Ignore 'best practice' and you get a risk. Same as all gas appliances. 

 

 

[Tacet]

11 hours ago, MtB said:

 

Eh? Where do you get THAT from?!!

 

Open flue appliances are perfectly safe when installed in accordance with 'best practice'. Ignore 'best practice' and you get a risk. Same as all gas appliances. 

 

 

I quite agree - so it looks as though I wasted an emoji

[David Mack]

 

On 10/10/2021 at 21:22, pollip said:

what are the other alternatives to instant hot water on a boat??

 

On 10/10/2021 at 23:30, David Mack said:

Calorifier heated by engine cooling water.

 

On 10/10/2021 at 23:52, pollip said:

and also that's pretty far from instant hot water 🤣

 

You asked for an alternative to "instant hot water".🤣

Edited October 12, 2021 by David Mack

[Tacet]

8 minutes ago, David Mack said:

 

 

 

 

You asked for an alternative to "instant hot water".🤣

cold water?

[pollip]

3 hours ago, David Mack said:

 

 

 

 

You asked for an alternative to "instant hot water".🤣

I did you are right 🤣. Although I did mean another all but instant method. I've decided to send the webasto off for repair rip out the leaky tank and replace it with a heat exchanger so as soon as the webasto has reached temp I can get instant hot water from it rather than waiting an hour or 2 for water to heater up

[David Mack]

Can a webasto produce heat at a sufficient rate for a hot shower?

[Tracy D'arth]

9 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Can a webasto produce heat at a sufficient rate for a hot shower?

Very unlikely.

[Alan de Enfield]

54 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Can a webasto produce heat at a sufficient rate for a hot shower?

 

44 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Very unlikely.

 

I think it'll be more a case of getting the hotwater into the cauliflower and then using that.

The Eber / Webby are not instantaneous water heaters.

[pollip]

7 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

I think it'll be more a case of getting the hotwater into the cauliflower and then using that.

The Eber / Webby are not instantaneous water heaters.

They aren't instant water heaters no but you pop a heat exchanger in place of the tank and they act as a combi boiler, done a fair amount in vans but not in boats. The only thing you've got to watch is the Cold water flow rate, if the cold water goes through to fast it won't heat it sufficiently. The particular one I'm looking at has been designed to run using a webby or ebby

[pollip]

1 hour ago, David Mack said:

Can a webasto produce heat at a sufficient rate for a hot shower?

It has been done. A mate of mine has a ebby in his van with under floor heating a plinth heater and a heat exchanger. He said the water get to hot to use (he hasn't put a mixer in it yet). It's all down to flow rate of the pump, you push cols water in to fast it won't get hot you push cold water in to slow it will get piping hot. It works on the same principle as a lpg water heater the only difference being you have to wait for the webby or ebby to go through the wake up cycle and get to temp before it will start heating properly. The friend in question says 15-20m and he has an instant hot water supply. The chap at Mellor says it should take about 5 minutes for the webasto to get up to temp to start heating. We shall see I suppose 

[David Mack]

23 minutes ago, pollip said:

It's all down to flow rate of the pump, you push cols water in to fast it won't get hot you push cold water in to slow it will get piping hot.

So you can only have a hot shower at a much lower water flow than if you were using a proper instantaneous heater, such as a morco, or using stored hot water from a calorifier?

[pollip]

13 minutes ago, David Mack said:

So you can only have a hot shower at a much lower water flow than if you were using a proper instantaneous heater, such as a morco, or using stored hot water from a calorifier?

Yes I assume so. I'm sure he said yesterday 5-7lpg per minute via the cold feed, I need to have a chat with my friend to see what pump he has on his as he hasn't ever said any of this just hooked it straight up didn't change anything on the pump and it comes out piping hot. I guess it also depends on if you have an accumulator on the hot feed which I'm sure I do because that will bump the pressure up as it comes out hot

Just now, pollip said:

Yes I assume so. I'm sure he said yesterday 5-7lpg per minute via the cold feed, I need to have a chat with my friend to see what pump he has on his as he hasn't ever said any of this just hooked it straight up didn't change anything on the pump and it comes out piping hot. I guess it also depends on if you have an accumulator on the hot feed which I'm sure I do because that will bump the pressure up as it comes out hot

There will be a way to get the pressure up for the hot feed, I can't stand showers that drip so if I do have a problem  I'll find a way. The parts are on melloronline if you fancy a browse into them, Stuart is the technician and a very helpful chap. I just got off the phone to him and he said the flow and return will be about 80-82 degrees c that's heating the hot water so the hot water should be heater to somewhere just under that mark of course depending on the flow going in

[system 4-50]

My Webasto Thermotop C has a 5Kw output.  My Morco D61B has an output of about 15Kw.  I think I'll stick with the Morco for my instant water shower.

[David Mack]

"Don't huddle in a puddle, get a shower with some power!"