More stoppages than usual this year?

[Grassman]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Is it just me or do you think there have there been a lot more unplanned stoppages this year, mainly relating to locks?

 

I’ve noticed a particular rise in paddles and gates problems, and I wonder if this isn’t just down to the fact there are more boats on the move this year but also because there are a lot more new and inexperienced boaters on the water than usual, who are perhaps accidentally bashing into the gates, or letting the paddle gear drop instead of winding them down.

 

Or could it be because the years of poor preventive maintenance are finally beginning show?

 

I think it’s probably a combination of all those factors.

 

Your thoughts?

[Rob-M]

We've seen what seems like more locks with broken paddles and then a short storage to repair the paddle.  I can only presume this is down to paddles being dropped so could be due to more first time, inexperienced boaters.

[adam1uk]

I think you are right, there do seem to have been a lot of stoppages.  My theory is that it’s because there was a year with very little use because of lockdowns, followed by a year of more use than usual as everyone took to the water.  

[Alan de Enfield]

29 minutes ago, adam1uk said:

My theory is that it’s because ............

 

They took the opportunity of having a year 'off' & not bothering to do any maintenance, 'pocketed' the money 'saved' and now the pigeons are coming home to roost.

[Arthur Marshall]

1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

They took the opportunity of having a year 'off' & not bothering to do any maintenance, 'pocketed' the money 'saved' and now the pigeons are coming home to roost.

Probably praying for another lockdown next Spring so they can ban boating again. A fortune saved! Bonuses all round!

[Allan(nb Albert)]

I have a program that is now run daily to record the number of stoppages. Here is a facebook post from about three weeks ago -
 

Quote

 

In June, July and August this year there was an average of 14.4 stoppages showing per day on CRT's stoppage database.

The same three months of 2017 gave an average of 10.8.

Fairly obviously, the frequency and/or duration of emergency closures is increasing.

Why is then that every year CRT publishes figures showing that the condition of its waterways are improving?

 

 

Edited October 10, 2021 by Allan(nb Albert)

[MtB]

2 hours ago, Allan(nb Albert) said:

Why is then that every year CRT publishes figures showing that the condition of its waterways are improving?

 

My guess is because the "condition of the waterways" is judged by different criteria from simply counting the number of stoppages.  Number of stoppages is a desperately 'boating-centric' point of view, and nothing at all to do with what CRT or the guvverment is interested in. 

 

I suspect the real criteria being used are as follows, in no particular order:

 

Number of new signs put up

Miles of newly Tarmaced towpath

Amount of new signage erected

Number of nice photos of smiley faces added to the CRT website

How many old black and white signs have been replaced with ugly blue ones

Survey results where towpath pedestrians/ducks are asked to assess the state of the canals

How many more times the CRT 'sinking tyre' logo is displayed on new signs than last year

 

did I miss anything?

Edited October 10, 2021 by MtB
Add a bit

[Alan de Enfield]

12 minutes ago, MtB said:

did I miss anything?

 

The actual subjects that C&RT are obliged to report to Defra have no relation to the 'boating' side of the canal structure. You will note that under section 3:2 they are required to report on the number of unplanned towpath closures (but not 'canal' closures)

 

 

Sorta' shows why C&RT have such a low regard for boating and keeping the system usable by boats.

 

Edited October 10, 2021 by Alan de Enfield

[TheBiscuits]

28 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Sorta' shows why C&RT have such a low regard for boating and keeping the system usable by boats.

 

I don't think that's fair Alan.  They have been using a lot of "reactive" teams this year to reopen simple stoppages as quickly as possible.

 

I do suspect the logic is to keep as many assets in acceptable condition as possible, letting the bigger jobs wait longer but overall I think it's been positive for boaters. 

 

Yes there have been more stoppages but a lot of them have been short ones - some only a few hours long - for example to reattach a paddle.

 

That's been the case on the Northern canals this year, but obviously more severe problems like collapsing lock walls or floors can't be fixed overnight.

 

One of the longer "stoppages" that directly affected me was the one on Wigan dry dock as it closed a month before I was going into it and stayed shut for six months.   

 

Irritating, but only really affected one customer a week for that period.  I can't blame CRT for not dropping every other job to fix it sooner when there were stoppages affecting dozens of boats a day elsewhere in the region.

 

 

[David Mack]

And the other factor is that for most of us our assessment of the number of stoppages is based on those we have experienced directly or heard about, which is not necessarily the same as the actual number of stoppages. It is quite possible that now CRT's online stoppage alert system is up and running pretty well, they include lots of relatively trivial short term stoppages (broken paddle, tree down etc.) that would previously not have been widely reported.

[Detling]

The reason there have been more short stoppages I think is due to the number of locks without all paddles working and yellow tape over a broken one, they have been using yellow bags for a while now so the ones with tape failed several years ago and now when its mate fails the lock is not useable so becomes a stoppage. If they had bothered to fix the old broken paddle they would be able to put a nice yellow bag on the newly broken one and fix when convenient in the next few weeks. 

[Beo]

Annoyingly, the yellow bags covering broken paddles state ‘this item is under repair’. It’s not ‘under repair’ it’s broken!

[MtB]

22 minutes ago, Beo said:

Annoyingly, the yellow bags covering broken paddles state ‘this item is under repair’. It’s not ‘under repair’ it’s broken!

 

Yes that grates with me too. It is "awaiting repair", to be accurate.

[Midnight]

The reason there's been more stoppages is simple CRT don't do maintenance. The Fix it when it's broken Policy isnt good for boating. Another looming problem is going to be overhanging trees if nothing is done soon there won't be many navigable canals.

[Allan(nb Albert)]

1 hour ago, David Mack said:

And the other factor is that for most of us our assessment of the number of stoppages is based on those we have experienced directly or heard about, which is not necessarily the same as the actual number of stoppages. It is quite possible that now CRT's online stoppage alert system is up and running pretty well, they include lots of relatively trivial short term stoppages (broken paddle, tree down etc.) that would previously not have been widely reported.

As far as I am aware, the alert system was running fine in 2017 when I was using it to check out a program I had written which analysed number and duration of stoppages in order to calculate number of days lost to navigation. 

 

Perhaps its a case of more people making use it and more commenting on social media.

 

 

[Allan(nb Albert)]

1 minute ago, Midnight said:

The reason there's been more stoppages is simple CRT don't do maintenance. The Fix it when it's broken Policy isnt good for boating. Another looming problem is going to be overhanging trees if nothing is done soon there won't be many navigable canals.

Toddbrook is perhaps the best example of fix on fail in action... 

 

[Midnight]

23 minutes ago, Allan(nb Albert) said:

Toddbrook is perhaps the best example of fix on fail in action... 

 

Yes and just prior to that disaster Mr Parry was asked if bringing back lengthsmen would be a better option than fix when broken. He said it was too expensive. Let's think 10 years reservoir keepers wages versus evacuating a town and a £50 million repair bill. And people defend him 🙄 

[MtB]

14 hours ago, Midnight said:

Yes and just prior to that disaster Mr Parry was asked if bringing back lengthsmen would be a better option than fix when broken. He said it was too expensive. Let's think 10 years reservoir keepers wages versus evacuating a town and a £50 million repair bill. And people defend him 🙄 

 

That's not the whole picture though is it? Sacking loads of lengthsmen does not inevitably result in strings of £50m repair bills.

 

I accept though, that even one £50m bill really messes up the whole strategy! 

[robtheplod]

15 hours ago, Midnight said:

The reason there's been more stoppages is simple CRT don't do maintenance. The Fix it when it's broken Policy isnt good for boating. Another looming problem is going to be overhanging trees if nothing is done soon there won't be many navigable canals.

Whats the deal with overhanging branches etc... are boaters permitted to cut these themselves?

[Grassman]

16 hours ago, Midnight said:

The reason there's been more stoppages is simple CRT don't do maintenance. The Fix it when it's broken Policy isnt good for boating. Another looming problem is going to be overhanging trees if nothing is done soon there won't be many navigable canals.

 

That's why it's so annoying that this winter CRT want me and my 7 fellow offside veg cutting volunteers to instead do the towpath veg this winter, which we've refused to do, as per my comment on another thread. We were hoping this would force them to re-think but it hasn't.

 

CRT tend to react to the number of complaints, so it looks as if more cyclists and pedestrians have complained about the towpaths than we boaters have about the state of the canals. Perhaps we should all complain more.

[robtheplod]

9 minutes ago, Grassman said:

 

That's why it's so annoying that this winter CRT want me and my 7 fellow offside veg cutting volunteers to instead do the towpath veg this winter, which we've refused to do, as per my comment on another thread. We were hoping this would force them to re-think but it hasn't.

 

CRT tend to react to the number of complaints, so it looks as if more cyclists and pedestrians have complained about the towpaths than we boaters have about the state of the canals. Perhaps we should all complain more.

maybe boaters should start invoicing CRT for scratches on their boats caused by overgrown vegetation! 

[MtB]

9 minutes ago, Grassman said:

 

That's why it's so annoying that this winter CRT want me and my 7 fellow offside veg cutting volunteers to instead do the towpath veg this winter, which we've refused to do, as per my comment on another thread. We were hoping this would force them to re-think but it hasn't.

 

CRT tend to react to the number of complaints, so it looks as if more cyclists and pedestrians have complained about the towpaths than we boaters have about the state of the canals. Perhaps we should all complain more.

 

Very commendable. 

 

Was there anything stopping you just trimming back the offside anyway? Or were you using a CRT boat perhaps? 

[Alan de Enfield]

16 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

Very commendable. 

 

Was there anything stopping you just trimming back the offside anyway? Or were you using a CRT boat perhaps? 

 

Maybe when 'working for C&RT' they are covered by C&RTs Public Liabilty Insurance, if they are just doing 'what they want in their own time' they would not be.

[Midnight]

2 hours ago, MtB said:

 

That's not the whole picture though is it? Sacking loads of lengthsmen does not inevitably result in strings of £50m repair bills.

 

I accept though, that even one £50m bill really messes up the whole strategy! 

 

Perhaps not but maybe a few £3 million  repair bills and a very long string of £1000 repair bills. And it certainly leads to the increase is stoppages

 

Edited October 11, 2021 by Midnight

[Big Bob W]

18 hours ago, Detling said:

The reason there have been more short stoppages I think is due to the number of locks without all paddles working and yellow tape over a broken one, they have been using yellow bags for a while now so the ones with tape failed several years ago and now when its mate fails the lock is not useable so becomes a stoppage. If they had bothered to fix the old broken paddle they would be able to put a nice yellow bag on the newly broken one and fix when convenient in the next few weeks. 

In CRT's mindset, a busted paddle is not an issue. The other paddles are spares aren't they?