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Heating your boat


Kelly85

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32 minutes ago, Kelly85 said:

Hello

Question regarding heating our narrow boat. We will have electric hook up 80% of the time. Has anyone installed electric radiators attached to the walls rather than a diesel heating system? 

I don't see a problem if your supply is big enough and they are wired in such a way that they CANT be powered from the invertor

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1 hour ago, Kelly85 said:

Hello

Question regarding heating our narrow boat. We will have electric hook up 80% of the time. Has anyone installed electric radiators attached to the walls rather than a diesel heating system? 

 

A cheaper option if you have the floor space is simply to buy a 2kW or 2.5kW electric oil filled radiator. Argos has a good range.

 

Most are thermostatically controlled so you can leave them on a low setting at say 5 or 6C while you're away from the boat in winter to stop pipes freezing. You should still switch off your pump, open a couple of taps and isolate the tank while you're away.

 

They have all the relevant safety features such as auto switch off if they tip over, etc, so they can't cause a fire, but the gloomsters and doomsters will no doubt be along shortly to warn that they're not certified for marine use and will invalidate your insurance. I've been using one for over 15 years without a problem and I don't think most tubular greenhouse heaters are certified for marine use either.

 

If you buy one get one without a digital interface. That way if there's a power cut or someone messes with your bollard the heater will come back on as soon as power is restored. The digital ones won't come back on. Also if you have a combi inverter make sure it's set to "charger only" otherwise if the power is cut your heater (and everything else that's on) will wreck your batteries. 

 

11 Fin 2500W Oil Filled Radiator - White

Edited by blackrose
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10 hours ago, Kelly85 said:

Hello

Question regarding heating our narrow boat. We will have electric hook up 80% of the time. Has anyone installed electric radiators attached to the walls rather than a diesel heating system? 

 

Is it your intention to provide full central heating whilst living aboard, or just frost protection while absent?

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11 hours ago, Kelly85 said:

Hello

Question regarding heating our narrow boat. We will have electric hook up 80% of the time. Has anyone installed electric radiators attached to the walls rather than a diesel heating system? 

Bear in mind that a normal narrowboat hook up plug and bollard is rated at 16A, which is about 3.5kw. That is barely enough to heat a boat to room temperature in winter, and leaves nothing spare for other services such as immersion heater. So it would be ok just to stop an unoccupied boat freezing, not Ok if the boat is to be lived on and it’s the only source of heat.

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Re Backrose's post about gloomsters saying using such heater will invalidate your insurance.

 

I can't speak for others, but we have had a case quoted here where an insurance company did advise that any such heaters should be certified for marine use or it would invalidate the insurance. All I have ever done is to advise that you check your policy to ensure it has no such clauses. I think it was only on insurer and they seemed to specialise more in lumpy water boats, so probably think narrowboats leap about and roll like a sea boat will and don't want a heater falling over.

 

I have never heard of a fire or accident being cause by such heaters, or tube heaters, but that does not mean that one should ignore the fact that it was reported that one insurance company would have the opportunity to void the insurance if an accident did occur.

1 minute ago, nicknorman said:

Bear in mind that a normal narrowboat hook up plug and bollard is rated at 16A, which is about 3.5kw. That is barely enough to heat a boat to room temperature in winter, and leaves nothing spare for other services such as immersion heater. So it would be ok just to stop an unoccupied boat freezing, not Ok if the boat is to be lived on and it’s the only source of heat.

 

And not OK when all the others in the marina turn their heaters on a pop the main circuit breaker and shut power down for a whole section of the marina.

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Thank you for all yours advise. Our intention is to heat the boat while we live aboard during the cold months. I think now electric will not be an option. Diesel heating system it is.
Does anyone have any contacts for a trades man in the west / North Yorkshire area who could quote for installation. If anyone would like to message private to advise what I should expect from this quote .... would be helpful. 
Once again thanks 🙏🏽 

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45 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

Bear in mind that a normal narrowboat hook up plug and bollard is rated at 16A, which is about 3.5kw. That is barely enough to heat a boat to room temperature in winter, and leaves nothing spare for other services such as immersion heater. So it would be ok just to stop an unoccupied boat freezing, not Ok if the boat is to be lived on and it’s the only source of heat.

 

Yes, it's no good for the only source of heating in winter, you'd still need a solid fuel stove or diesel stove. My electric oil filled radiator is used as background heating for when the stove has died down overnight. On autumn days like this and on the milder winter days sometimes it's the only source of heating as the stove gets the boat a bit too hot. 

Edited by blackrose
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Hello, the plan is to have both on our 57ft. The diesel central heating system / any other good option for the winter to ensure all the boat is warm the whole way through, rather than wheeling oil radiators around or have a couple of bulky ones dotted around the boat. 
We will be working from the boat some days too. So got to ensure it is comfortable ☺️ 
 

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39 minutes ago, Kelly85 said:

Thank you for all yours advise. Our intention is to heat the boat while we live aboard during the cold months. I think now electric will not be an option. Diesel heating system it is.
Does anyone have any contacts for a trades man in the west / North Yorkshire area who could quote for installation. If anyone would like to message private to advise what I should expect from this quote .... would be helpful. 
Once again thanks 🙏🏽 

 

What sort of diesel heating system? Don't rely on an Ebersplutter, Webastard, etc, over winter if you're living aboard. Some drip fed diesel stoves are reliable enough, but as Jen says solid fuel stoves are the most reliable.

Edited by blackrose
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16 minutes ago, Kelly85 said:

Hello, the plan is to have both on our 57ft. The diesel central heating system / any other good option for the winter to ensure all the boat is warm the whole way through, rather than wheeling oil radiators around or have a couple of bulky ones dotted around the boat. 
We will be working from the boat some days too. So got to ensure it is comfortable ☺️ 
 

Yes I think this is the right combination, a solid fuel stove for the majority of heating and a wet diesel system for topping up/ heating bedroom/ heating water (get a dual coil calorifier). And a bit of heating morning/evening in spring / autumn when lighting the stove is unjustified.

If you are commissioning a new boat I would not design it around only “working” on hookup. Circumstances change unexpectedly and resale value would be affected by a boat that needed to be hooked up all the time.

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21 minutes ago, Kelly85 said:

Hello, the plan is to have both on our 57ft. The diesel central heating system / any other good option for the winter to ensure all the boat is warm the whole way through, rather than wheeling oil radiators around or have a couple of bulky ones dotted around the boat. 
We will be working from the boat some days too. So got to ensure it is comfortable ☺️ 
 

 

A gravity circulated wet central heating system from a stove would distribute heat throughout the boat.

 

FWIW I went for a gas boiler instead of a diesel one for short term "warm the boat up" type use.

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2 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

A gravity circulated wet central heating system from a stove would distribute heat throughout the boat.

 

FWIW I went for a gas boiler instead of a diesel one for short term "warm the boat up" type use.

I have a gas boiler too and I'm surprised they aren't more common on boats.  The latest Alde boilers are much more efficient than ones of old.  Other advantages:  silent operation, tiny current draw when not on hook up, more reliable.

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25 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:

I have a gas boiler too and I'm surprised they aren't more common on boats.  The latest Alde boilers are much more efficient than ones of old.  Other advantages:  silent operation, tiny current draw when not on hook up, more reliable.

 

I agree with you.

 

I fear that the old Ellis and to a degree tall Alde boilers gave gas boilers the reputation of being expensive to run, not helped by the prices charged by Calor for canal side gas. It's the pilot lights that use the gas but modern boilers use spark ignition.

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27 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

I agree with you.

 

I fear that the old Ellis and to a degree tall Alde boilers gave gas boilers the reputation of being expensive to run, not helped by the prices charged by Calor for canal side gas. It's the pilot lights that use the gas but modern boilers use spark ignition.

I have a tall Alde and my experience is that them being expensive is a bit of a myth.  I use my Alde a lot in the morning to give me warmth and hot water.  I get up, put it on, make a cup of tea and go back to bed for about an hour.  Then when I get up properly, the boat is warm and I have hot water for a shower and any washing up.  The heat settings on the boiler go from 1 to 7, but I never put it above 5.  I've discovered that putting it on 7 really goes through the fuel quickly but my rads aren't really any warmer.  I suspect a lot of excess heat is venting through the chimney, if it's set too high.  I reckon that's what a lot of Alde owners have done and they assume it's inefficient.  Including all my cooking, I use around 3 calor bottles a year which is around £90.  If I were able to swap to flogas it would be more like £60.  And I doubt that the combined cost of cooking gas and diesel heating would be much different.

 

There are downsides to gas heating though:

 

1.  You can only store as much as your gas locker will hold.

2.  The effort and the faff of changing the bottles over and lugging them off the boat when returning empties and buy newly filled bottles.

3.  Fire risk (but most boats have gas anyway, so not sure this is a big deal.)

Edited by doratheexplorer
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Alde warn against running them at too high a temperature. Trying to remember from the manual,  think the suggest 3 to 4 on the boiler thermostat. I once saw this explained, but can't remember it now. I think that they are ideal for your use and a programmable room thermostat would probably be more convenient and may not use that much more gas.

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28 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

Alde warn against running them at too high a temperature. Trying to remember from the manual,  think the suggest 3 to 4 on the boiler thermostat. I once saw this explained, but can't remember it now. I think that they are ideal for your use and a programmable room thermostat would probably be more convenient and may not use that much more gas.

I have a thermostat, but it's not programmable.  I didn't know such a thing existed?  Do you have a link?

 

I use my thermostat for frost protection when I'm away from my boat in winter.

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I suppose you are way up north or west because I have one I would be happy to give you. They have all gone Hive, smart, and radio now but this is the closest to what I have.

 

https://www.heatingcontrolsonline.co.uk/avansa-2007-programmable-thermostat.html

 

You would probably have to fit a separate on-off  switch for the pump.

 

As you will be running the pilot light when you are away from the boat, I suspect just turning the pump off but leaving the boiler alight would protect from frost apart from in the most severe weather. The boiler would just fire up for a short period now and again and heat would be vented into the boat.

Edited by Tony Brooks
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6 hours ago, blackrose said:

On a 57ft boat if the stove was positioned centrally (fore/aft) then you wouldn't even need a central heating system from the stove. Simples is best. 


agreed, I’ve a 48’ boat and the stove in the middle of the boat is perfect. 
Perhaps the addition of an eco fan might help?

 

Just thinking 🤔 

Might try one this winter 

I’ve heard good things about them on here.

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13 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

A gravity circulated wet central heating system from a stove would distribute heat throughout the boat.

 

Newbie here so this is possibly a stupid question, but how controllable is the heat from such a central heating system if you rely on the stove to heat the circulating water?

 

I get that the stove won't heat the whole boat so you would want radiators in other positions but if you want to heat the bedroom aren't you also (unnecessarily) directly heating the saloon as well if you are using a stove with a back boiler?

 

I'm happy to be told that I've missed an important point so that I can understand more when I'm looking at ads.

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8 hours ago, douglasb said:

Newbie here so this is possibly a stupid question, but how controllable is the heat from such a central heating system if you rely on the stove to heat the circulating water?

 

I get that the stove won't heat the whole boat so you would want radiators in other positions but if you want to heat the bedroom aren't you also (unnecessarily) directly heating the saloon as well if you are using a stove with a back boiler?

 

I'm happy to be told that I've missed an important point so that I can understand more when I'm looking at ads.

 

 

You can determine how much heat each radiator receives by adjusting the normal radiator valves, but you also do it by controlling the size of the fire in the stove. You should not just fit a stove that you happen to like the look of. It's boiler output needs matching to the radiators.

 

You can have simple and reliable that may not be as "efficient" as possible, or you can have efficient, complicated and less reliable. Most boaters prefer the former. You also need to consider that electricity away from shore power is very expensive to produce and store, especially in the winter months, so heating systems using little or no electricity to run may turn out to be as cost-effective as a more efficient one that needs electricity.

 

A boat is not a house and worrying about the cost of heating a temporarily unused "room" is not, in my opinion, a sensible thing to do.

 

 

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18 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

I suppose you are way up north or west because I have one I would be happy to give you. They have all gone Hive, smart, and radio now but this is the closest to what I have.

 

https://www.heatingcontrolsonline.co.uk/avansa-2007-programmable-thermostat.html

 

You would probably have to fit a separate on-off  switch for the pump.

 

As you will be running the pilot light when you are away from the boat, I suspect just turning the pump off but leaving the boiler alight would protect from frost apart from in the most severe weather. The boiler would just fire up for a short period now and again and heat would be vented into the boat.

That's very kind of you. 

 

This is what I have:

Pump.jpg.b0f2a080f6ba8cdf41032ad7273b0fce.jpg

 

I'd assumed it needed to be an official Alde part?

 

It's a thermostat and pump in one.

 

When I'm away in winter I set the control on the boiler to about 3 and set the thermostat to just above the frost setting.  That way the pump only kicks in when the temperature is low.  When the pump is not running, the boiler mostly runs on the pilot only once the water tank is up to temp.

 

I wouldn't really have a clue how to fit a thermostat like you've posted, or how to fit a seperate pump.  I'd wrongly assumed that there was an Alde unit as a straight swap for mine, but with a programmable timer.

 

10 hours ago, douglasb said:

Newbie here so this is possibly a stupid question, but how controllable is the heat from such a central heating system if you rely on the stove to heat the circulating water?

 

I get that the stove won't heat the whole boat so you would want radiators in other positions but if you want to heat the bedroom aren't you also (unnecessarily) directly heating the saloon as well if you are using a stove with a back boiler?

 

I'm happy to be told that I've missed an important point so that I can understand more when I'm looking at ads.

My boat is 55'.  That means the cabin length is probably between 40-45' once the front and back are excluded.  My stove quite easily heats my whole boat, but it's right slap bang in the middle of my boat.  I've never understood why so many boats have a layout which puts the stove right at one end.

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