Engine exhaust muck

[spicemouse]

Hi all!

 

I've noticed that my beta 43 seems to be chucking out more black muck that I'm really happy with. As yours is my first boat and first boat engine, I don't know if this is what you'd expect. 

 

You'd can see the muck here:

 

Any advice?

 

Thanks! 

 

[Bee]

Hmmm. First thoughts are that the insides of exhausts are always a bit black and sooty, it looks as though the soot has come out in blobs which makes me think it could be rain going down the exhaust. Is it more smoky under way? If it is then just have a look at the air filter, there's just a clip or two holding the lid on and if the thing is a mess then that could be it.  

[spicemouse]

First few seconds is usually smoky, but pretty clear after that. Air filter is quite new and clean. I realise I've been leaving the chimney in during the recent heavy rain. Could water getting down be the culprit?

[Tony Brooks]

1 hour ago, spicemouse said:

First few seconds is usually smoky, but pretty clear after that. Air filter is quite new and clean. I realise I've been leaving the chimney in during the recent heavy rain. Could water getting down be the culprit?

 

Yes, and it could wreck the engine if it gets into the cylinders in any quantity. It will lay in any low points and  soften the carbon layer so when you start it blows water and muck out the top. I think it's the splash marks on the cabin side that gives it away.

 

In general black smoke while hot and running indicates lack of air as indicated by Bee's reply but it could be other things or too much fuel which is unlikely unless you have an oversize or fouled prop or very badly worn injectors.

 

A far less common cause on dry exhaust boats is partially blocked exhaust, so the  cylinders are not properly purged of burned gasses which in turn means they can't draw in sufficient clean air. So unlikely in this case, forget about it.

[David Mack]

1 hour ago, spicemouse said:

 I realise I've been leaving the chimney in during the recent heavy rain. Could water getting down be the culprit?

Most boaters with a roof-mounted exhaust remove the pipe and put a cap over the collar whenever the engine is not in use. An old style compressed gas bottle cap used to be preferred as they came with a handle on top, but I haven't seen one for years. A used baked bean can will do instead.

[spicemouse]

Thanks guys! I'll take the chimney off and cover when not in use. It'll be a bit more hassle as I'll need to run the engine more often as the sun goes away, but I should have it covered when not in use. Hopefully the water hasn't done any damage. 

[Jen-in-Wellies]

24 minutes ago, David Mack said:

A used baked bean can will do instead.

Painted with roses and castles!

21 minutes ago, spicemouse said:

Thanks guys! I'll take the chimney off and cover when not in use. It'll be a bit more hassle as I'll need to run the engine more often as the sun goes away, but I should have it covered when not in use. Hopefully the water hasn't done any damage. 

If you forget to remove the cover, starting the engine will blast it off anyway.

If the engine had been hydraulically locked by water in the cylinders, you'd know by now. Be worth looking at the oil and make sure it hasn't turned to cream emulsion on top from water draining down past the piston rings.

Edited October 3, 2021 by Jen-in-Wellies

[spicemouse]

2 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

If you forget to remove the cover, starting the engine will blast it off anyway.

I've blasted it into the canal once already! 

[spicemouse]

57 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

..too much fuel which is unlikely unless you have an oversize or fouled prop or very badly worn injectors.

 

I did have to refit a fuel lift pump recently, which was very very similar to the original, but not the original part. How could I tell if I'm pumping the correct amount of fuel? 

[dmr]

48 minutes ago, spicemouse said:

Thanks guys! I'll take the chimney off and cover when not in use. It'll be a bit more hassle as I'll need to run the engine more often as the sun goes away, but I should have it covered when not in use. Hopefully the water hasn't done any damage. 

 

Running the engine in heavy rain can do this, the rain just captures the exhaust and drops it back onto the roof.

A traditional roof mounted exhaust is unusual on a Beta43, are you sure its not a Beta JD3? 😀

My solution to keeping the rain out of the exhaust is a loose fitting "tractor top", take it off when cruising so the exhaust goes straight up, but can be left on when running the engine to charge batteries....no need to go out into the cold and wet.

[David Mack]

36 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

Painted with roses and castles!

What's wrong with black paint and brass bands around it?

[Tracy D'arth]

28 minutes ago, spicemouse said:

 

I did have to refit a fuel lift pump recently, which was very very similar to the original, but not the original part. How could I tell if I'm pumping the correct amount of fuel? 

That has no relevance to the amount of fuel injected. 

[Tony Brooks]

52 minutes ago, spicemouse said:

 

I did have to refit a fuel lift pump recently, which was very very similar to the original, but not the original part. How could I tell if I'm pumping the correct amount of fuel? 

 

As Tracy says, no relevance to the amount of fuel being delivered into the cylinders, it's the injector pump that does that. However, if you fitted one with a very low output you might not get enough fuel into the injector pump, but this would just result in lack of revs/power.

 I think you would be very hard-pressed to do that on our sort of engines unless the new pump was faulty. In fact it is fairly common to disconnect a faulty mechanical lift pump and fit an electric one from a motor factors.

[Tacet]

2 hours ago, spicemouse said:

I've blasted it into the canal once already! 

Hired a boat from, I think Union Canal Cruisers, with this type of exhaust some years back.  If you dropped (for example) a small apple down the exhaust whilst ticking over - and then gave it some beans, the apple shot out of the pipe and could, sometimes be caught to allow the experience to be repeated.

 

[ditchcrawler]

9 hours ago, Bee said:

Hmmm. First thoughts are that the insides of exhausts are always a bit black and sooty, it looks as though the soot has come out in blobs which makes me think it could be rain going down the exhaust. Is it more smoky under way? If it is then just have a look at the air filter, there's just a clip or two holding the lid on and if the thing is a mess then that could be it.  

Mine does that if I forget to put the cap on overnight and it rains

[Bod]

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/EXHAUST-WEATHER-RAIN-CAP-Flap-Massey-Ferguson-TE20-35-135-Tractor-45mm-1-3-4-/174459725902?var=0&mkevt=1&mkcid=1&mkrid=710-53481-19255-0&campid=5338268676&toolid=10044&customid=CjwKCAjwzOqKBhAWEiwArQGwaCh2LjACIidOPQVTuID5-gsKZX6QlePPuhfzmUsJfCInKR53-1-OtxoCLRQQAvD_BwE

Fit one of these.

Other suppliers are available.

You need to know the diameter of the top of your exhaust pipe.

 

Bod

[BEngo]

Looks to me like it needs a good boatman's tune up.  Take it somewhere you can get to full power in ahead gear and run it like that as long as possible.  The Severn from Gloucester to Tewkesbury and Diglis is good, as are stretches of the Thames and Trent, or many of the big NE waterways.

 

Diesels do not like long periods at low power, as in canal boating;  this causes sooting up round the valves and in the exhaust.  A good long high power  run will burn  off the exhaust valves and blow most of the muck out of the exhaust.

 

Then keep the rain out as advised above.

 

N

[spicemouse]

16 minutes ago, Bod said:

Fit one of these.

Other suppliers are available.

You need to know the diameter of the top of your exhaust pipe.

I have a detachable high exhaust pipe. If I got one of these, I guess I'd have to remove it and then reattach the pipe before I move?

 

 

5 minutes ago, BEngo said:

Looks to me like it needs a good boatman's tune up.  Take it somewhere you can get to full power in ahead gear and run it like that as long as possible.  The Severn from Gloucester to Tewkesbury and Diglis is good, as are stretches of the Thames and Trent, or many of the big NE waterways.

 

Diesels do not like long periods at low power, as in canal boating;  this causes sooting up round the valves and in the exhaust.  A good long high power  run will burn  off the exhaust valves and blow most of the muck out of the exhaust.

 

Then keep the rain out as advised above.

 

N

 

I never run at full rpm, the various vibrations scare me!  Should I put this fear away and get up to warp speed more often? Feel like the higher the rpm the higher the risk of something going wrong.. 

 

[David Mack]

25 minutes ago, Bod said:

 

Fit one of these.

Other suppliers are available.

You need to know the diameter of the top of your exhaust pipe.

 

6 minutes ago, spicemouse said:

I have a detachable high exhaust pipe. If I got one of these, I guess I'd have to remove it and then reattach the pipe before I move?

 

If you are going use the tall pipe when the engine is running and remove it when not, them you might as well just have a plain cap when not running. Those balanced flap lids are designed to be left in place all the time. But there's no reason why you couldn't fit one to the top of your tall pipe.

[Athy]

20 hours ago, dmr said:

 

A traditional roof mounted exhaust is unusual on a Beta43, are you sure its not a Beta JD3? 😀

 

I ws thinking the exact same thing.

[spicemouse]

6 minutes ago, Athy said:

I ws thinking the exact same thing.

It's a Beta 43 BV1903. I've spoken to Beta and dated it by serial number lookup. Unusual setup with an engine room in the middle, and hydraulic drive & gearbox though! There was previously a BMC engine which was replaced around 25 years ago, which might explain the setup. 

[BEngo]

3 hours ago, spicemouse said:

I have a detachable high exhaust pipe. If I got one of these, I guess I'd have to remove it and then reattach the pipe before I move?

 

 

 

I never run at full rpm, the various vibrations scare me!  Should I put this fear away and get up to warp speed more often? Feel like the higher the rpm the higher the risk of something going wrong.. 

 

The engine was designed and rated to run at its rated output.  For a marine engine that is usually a power and  speed rating for a continuous period of 12 hours or more.  Running at the rated speed will not break your engine, provided it is in proper order.

 

Get up to warp speed, or at least to the point where the donkey sounds like it is working fairly hard, but not black smoking, as often and for as long as you can.  Obvs, be respectful of the canal structure , and the rest of us😇.

 

If things vibrate, find out what and where  and fix them, or learn to treat it as a sort of mechanical chorus.

N

 

3 hours ago, spicemouse said:

I never run at full rpm, the various vibrations scare me!  Should I put this fear away and get up to warp speed more often? Feel like the higher the rpm the higher the risk of something going wrong.. 

 

 

[dmr]

Another option to a river is to tie the boat up in a lock, I have done this. I suspect there is always a risk of moving silt into a bad place but if you choose a deep wide lock, close all gates and paddles and run in reverse it should be ok. Find a quiet lock away from any houses.

Light running is not good for a diesels, trying to make sense of stuff from the www suggests that light load running could reduce engine life by up to 50%.

[Tony Brooks]

Vibration wise I think there may be a good chance the engine is out of alignment with the shaft unless the OP has a cardon shaft. If he has, it would not surprise me if the UJ bearings are not badly worn.

[spicemouse]

27 minutes ago, dmr said:

Another option to a river is to tie the boat up in a lock, I have done this. I suspect there is always a risk of moving silt into a bad place but if you choose a deep wide lock, close all gates and paddles and run in reverse it should be ok. Find a quiet lock away from any houses.

Light running is not good for a diesels, trying to make sense of stuff from the www suggests that light load running could reduce engine life by up to 50%.

What about blasting through the Islington tunnel? That far enough for burn anything nasty off? 

 

I plan to get a small petrol generator either later this month or next to reduce the light engine running during winter. 

 

18 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

Vibration wise I think there may be a good chance the engine is out of alignment with the shaft unless the OP has a cardon shaft. If he has, it would not surprise me if the UJ bearings are not badly worn.

I think we've discussed my setup before Tony. I've got a hydraulic gearbox and drive. Earlier this year I discovered an engine mount had gone, and ended up getting it welded back together. So vibrations in the engine bay aren't so bad. It's a vibration I'm getting from the hydraulic motor which is currently inaccessible (I'd have to cut through the deck). Only happens in certain RPM ranges, so I think it's just resonance.