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Who are BMW as a mediation body?


Adventurer

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1 minute ago, Stroudwater1 said:

Sad tha this appears to have happened, but I imagine there are often two sides to a story TBF.

 

Im just glad that Gazumping isn't common for inland waterway boat sales, "under offer" usually seems to stop anyone from offering more, thank goodness  

What could possibly justify the unilateral cancelling of an agreement, its sound like an emotional response, with ulterior motives. I have requested mediation as I would like to complete purchase, the brokerage are not responding to my request for such. How do you suggest I proceed?

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40 minutes ago, Stroudwater1 said:

Im just glad that Gazumping isn't common for inland waterway boat sales, "under offer" usually seems to stop anyone from offering more, thank goodness  

 

But, in this case, whilst the boat was under offer, the 2nd 'buyer' offered £1000 LESS and the boat appears to have been sold to him..

Mind you, I can fully understand the seller accepting, far better to accept a £1000 reduction in selling price and the buyer buying 'as is' with no survey, rather than someone having a survey and then claiming a "reduction of £5000  because the batteries are flat, the toilet paper had run out and the interior paint needs updating"

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57 minutes ago, Adventurer said:

What could possibly justify the unilateral cancelling of an agreement, its sound like an emotional response, with ulterior motives. I have requested mediation as I would like to complete purchase, the brokerage are not responding to my request for such. How do you suggest I proceed?

Very sadly I think you wont win, as the brokers unpleasantness will sour the sale especially if there is a ruling against them. Complain by all means but if you win then I doubt it will go swimmingly. Who knows what has really gone on, other than the broker I fear. 

You may regrettably be best to pass it by, bargain or not. 

 

15 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

But, in this case, whilst the boat was under offer, the 2nd 'buyer' offered £1000 LESS and the boat appears to have been sold to him..

Mind you, I can fully understand the seller accepting, far better to accept a £1000 reduction in selling price and the buyer buying 'as is' with no survey, rather than someone having a survey and then claiming a "reduction of £5000  because the batteries are flat, the toilet paper had run out and the interior paint needs updating"

I understand, and all very odd isnt it, it was a general comment of thankfulness. 

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1 hour ago, Adventurer said:

Wow, how old was the boat out of interest?

That's interesting as funds are ready and waiting to complete purchase.

Facts are that if you dont mess about with a survey you will get a good deal even in the present climate. I never had a survey on any of the 8 boats I lived on and often got huge amounts off. Only one was surveyed out of the 8 that I sold on. I sold my last boat to a non messing, cash buyer earlier this year, who also got a good deal and I had zero hassle with tyre kickers. 

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4 hours ago, mrsmelly said:

Facts are that if you dont mess about with a survey you will get a good deal even in the present climate. I never had a survey on any of the 8 boats I lived on and often got huge amounts off. Only one was surveyed out of the 8 that I sold on. I sold my last boat to a non messing, cash buyer earlier this year, who also got a good deal and I had zero hassle with tyre kickers. 

 

 

^^^This is it.^^^

 

Pissing the seller about by wanting a survey on a bargain boat is never going to succeed in today's market. 

 

Kid yourself as much as you like that a survey is the obvious and sensible way to proceed and you'll have the ground constantly and repeatedly undercut from you by more experienced buyers willing to make a snap judgement and just pay the money and take it away. 

 

This will happen to you again and again until the penny drops...

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8 hours ago, MtB said:

 

 

^^^This is it.^^^

 

Pissing the seller about by wanting a survey on a bargain boat is never going to succeed in today's market. 

 

Kid yourself as much as you like that a survey is the obvious and sensible way to proceed and you'll have the ground constantly and repeatedly undercut from you by more experienced buyers willing to make a snap judgement and just pay the money and take it away. 

 

This will happen to you again and again until the penny drops...

12 hours ago, northern said:

Is the boat definitely on brokerage and not owned by Excretion Marina?

No way of knowing for sure... 

 

Edit: located the seller of the boat on another thread, so definitely privately owned. (MVCL)

 

8 hours ago, MtB said:

 

 

^^^This is it.^^^

 

Pissing the seller about by wanting a survey on a bargain boat is never going to succeed in today's market. 

 

Kid yourself as much as you like that a survey is the obvious and sensible way to proceed and you'll have the ground constantly and repeatedly undercut from you by more experienced buyers willing to make a snap judgement and just pay the money and take it away. 

 

This will happen to you again and again until the penny drops...

That's a bit harsh. I hardly think having a survey is pissing about. I understood that to be the norm. The buyers of another similar year boat in the marina were also having theirs surveyed, so definitely not uncommon practice. 

Edited by Adventurer
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54 minutes ago, Adventurer said:

That's a bit harsh. I hardly think having a survey is pissing about. I understood that to be the norm. The buyers of another similar year boat in the marina were also having theirs surveyed, so definitely not uncommon practice. 

 

WAS a common practice, but now much less so as sellers don't want to be messed about and have the price knocked down so they are happy that the market is so buoyant and sellers will even buy unseen as well as un-surveyed.

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9 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

WAS a common practice, but now much less so as sellers don't want to be messed about and have the price knocked down so they are happy that the market is so buoyant and sellers will even buy unseen as well as un-surveyed.

This is, in my view unfortunately, the case.

 

A house, a boat, or in some cases a car, are purchases of significant financial value with complex systems beyond the experience of the average owner to assess in full with a simple visual inspection. This means that both the seller and the buyer may be unaware of issues which are not immediately apparent. If priced at the market value based on only the known issues, it is self-evident that the value is lower with the issues present. That presents the choice of the seller rectifying the issues which have now been brought to their attention, or reducing the price in line with the lower value. Neither of these are actions based on unreasonably driving down price.

 

There is nothing to stop someone looking for a quick sale from guessing how much might be wrong and offering for sale at a lower price without survey, and similarly the buyer guessing and making an offer accordingly. This will result in some wins for the buyer and some for the seller, but it is random guesswork and I don't feel it is a desirable way for the market to go as it encourages unscrupulous sellers to hide problems and hope they can pass them off on the unwary. Having a survey as the norm discourages this.

 

There is also a practical point. My (limited) experience suggests that anything other than 3rd party insurance is difficult to get without some form of survey, so in the end it is going to have to be done anyway.

 

Personally, I would like to see the standard approach to boat sales go down the 'sales pack' route, where when a boat goes on brokerage it will automatically have a survey which is available to all buyers and accepted by all insurers. That would add a lot of confidence to the process and help to fix prices in the minds of both buyers and sellers. It would also make the whole process more streamlined all round. It won't happen though while the market is like it is.

 

Alec

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1 hour ago, Adventurer said:

That's a bit harsh. I hardly think having a survey is pissing about. I understood that to be the norm. The buyers of another similar year boat in the marina were also having theirs surveyed, so definitely not uncommon practice. 

 

You seem to have trouble seeing this from the point of view of a seller. 

 

Imagine a boat for sale for £60k, Two buyers pitch up, one offering £60k subject to a survey which will be performed in three weeks, and the boat needs to taken to the dock, hauled out then put back. If the survey is unsatisfactory to the buyer the sale gets cancelled, the deposit returned and three weeks of selling time have been lost. Autumn is approaching and the seller is back to square one.

 

The other buyer is offering £59k in a Tesco carrier bag on the spot (or bank transfer the same day), boatto be  purchased as seen, with no comebacks. They will just hand over the money and take it away.

 

Which offer seems the more attractive to the seller?

 

 

 

Edited by MtB
Change 'seller' into 'buyer'!
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3 minutes ago, Adventurer said:

It seems there is no point in signing an agreement and putting a deposit down to take the boat off the market, which was made clear at time of signing the agreement. 

 

I do accept you have been treated abysmally and there is no excuse for breaking the terms of a contract morally speaking, but it happens in life and I find it helps to understand the motivations of the other party. I have been trying to help you understand why it happened to you.

 

Your remedy in law is to sue for compensation. Should you end up buying an equivalent boat for more money, you could (in theory) sue Venetian for your loss, i.e. the extra money you had to pay as a result of them not performing the contract. 

 

My view is life is too short, just take your chances and buy a boat, warts and all! 

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One point I do find notable here is that, as the facts are presented, the broker has broken the contract but not immediately returned the deposit. That would appear to be questionable practice at the least?

 

Alec

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2 minutes ago, agg221 said:

One point I do find notable here is that, as the facts are presented, the broker has broken the contract but not immediately returned the deposit. That would appear to be questionable practice at the least?

 

Alec

 

Worse than "questionable", it is dishonest in my opinion. 

 

Given the seller of the boat is a poster on this forum, perhaps they could chip in with an explanation of the position as they understand it.

 

 

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Just now, Adventurer said:

He does not have my bank details, I paid by debit card. I questioned his actions and requested mediation, to which he has not responded. 🤷‍♀️

 

As a card merchant retailer myself, I can confirm it is easy to return your payment without getting your bank details. All the retailer has to do is find his or her copy of the transaction receipt and use the information on it to key a "refund" transaction into the card terminal.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Adventurer said:

That's a bit harsh. I hardly think having a survey is pissing about. I understood that to be the norm. The buyers of another similar year boat in the marina were also having theirs surveyed, so definitely not uncommon practice. 

 

Agreed. I bought a boat a few months ago and I got a survey. It most certainly is the norm......I know this as all the highly recommended surveyors were booked solid for 10 weeks back in June and I imagine they still are now. 

 

I dealt with lots of brokers when I was searching. Unfortunately there is a massive difference between the best and worst and I fear you are dealing with one at the lower end of the scale.  

 

 

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The broker states quite clearly that once a £1000 deposit is paid, the boat is removed from the market.  They will of course say that it doesn't mean no further offers can be accepted, but that doesn't pass the test of reasonableness.

 

If you paid the deposit and it was received by the broker before the unconditional offer was accepted, you are 100% in the right, that's all there is to it.  

 

The broker is playing fast and loose because they probably think you won't sue.  Plus, they already have such a shocking reputation, among those in the know, it can't sink any lower.

 

I feel some sympathy for the seller, who was probably advised by the broker that this is all above board and of course as a seller you would choose to believe that...

 

But the seller could resolve this if he chose to.

 

It illustrates what a bear pit the boat market is at the moment, how many of us watch this from a distance and think glad I'm out of it.  I do hope some normality returns in the not too distant future but somehow I doubt it will.

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