Scrumbling

[Dartagnan]

Parts of the scrumbling on my NB are staring to peel/flake.  This is only on the side hatches and rear doors which when open are exposed to the elements.  As the boat is nearly twenty years old and the scrumbling in the back cabin is unaffected it’s had a good innings.  Where it has flaked there appears to be a cream base coat and the’ flake’ appears to be a form of acrylic or varnish substance.  In no way do I have the skills of scrumbling but I would like to touch up the relevant parts or would I be better and waiting till funds allow and get all the doors re done by someone with the appropriate talent?  I see one can purchase ‘scrumbling’ paint and I am curious as to what product to purchase.  Clearly I would need very little.  TIA Martin

[MtB]

Just now, Dartagnan said:

scrumbling

 

Ummm..... nope, I daren't comment!! 

 

Oh bugger.

[TheBiscuits]

Just now, MtB said:

 

Ummm..... nope, I daren't comment!! 

 

Oh bugger.

 

Scrum bling is jewellery worn by rugby players.

 

Scumbling is paint that looks like woodgrain.

[Tonka]

Where are you based ?

[matty40s]

1 minute ago, Tonka said:

Where are you based ?

In the rear cabin he says

 

[Tonka]

Just now, matty40s said:

In the rear cabin he says

 

No the rear cabin was OK. It was the doors. But which part of the country, only asking as wife currently doing our doors at the moment

[Bee]

you can have a try at it but you will struggle to get a good job. The yellowish/cream undercoat is sort of sound so if you match the darker brown with similar coloured paint, watercolour will do for small patches then paint the 'grain' with an  artists brush  then put a good varnish over the top of the whole panel that will do a reasonable job but if it has started flaking then sooner or later it will need re doing.

[dave moore]

I suggest that the whole flaking area is flatted down, re undercoated then re grained before applying several coats of a quality varnish such as Craftmaster. Whereabouts are you? I may be able to help with the scumbling if you can prepare the areas. PM me for a phone number if interested. 

Dave

[roland elsdon]

Its impossible to repair. As Dave Moore says ( and he should know) you have to start again. Its because of the multi stage process, and the variables ( base colour scumble colour etc.

 

its not hard to do unless you are into perfection. Bear in mind it was done to make poor quality wood on working boats acceptable ( and to prevent the london white look).

I had the same issue on our ticket drawer. Rather than try and match i stripped it and painted it same gloss as inset panel. Looks nice. 
To much graining  on our boat cabin so worked well as contrast.

 

[LEO]

Hi,

 

I was faced with the same problem on my boat, I have tried my hand at most things and took pleasure at trying scumbling, First read up about it, get a sheet of ply, decide upon colours, base coat it, and the paint the scumble, use the combs. use the flogging brushes leave it to dry, results poor, keep on trying, pleased with it apply some varnish. Happy try it on the boat. Takes time......but the results bring pleasure.

I re worked the slide and surrounds.......

[Ray T]

23 hours ago, roland elsdon said:

Its impossible to repair. As Dave Moore says ( and he should know) you have to start again. Its because of the multi stage process, and the variables ( base colour scumble colour etc.

 

its not hard to do unless you are into perfection. Bear in mind it was done to make poor quality wood on working boats acceptable ( and to prevent the london white look).

I had the same issue on our ticket drawer. Rather than try and match i stripped it and painted it same gloss as inset panel. Looks nice. 
To much graining  on our boat cabin so worked well as contrast.

 

My attempt

Edited October 1, 2021 by Ray T

[Bee]

Sometimes seen on wheelhouses of Scottish fishing boats with varying degrees of attractiveness. The worst I've ever seen was on a Hull Trawler that must have been done with molasses and a wire brush. There can be real skill in some of the painted effects, graining, marbling etc. I used to know someone who lived in a once grand town house divided up into horrible little bedsits but the entrance hall had 'marble' pillars that were just done with paint and it was completely convincing.

[Stroudwater1]

Some really good examples there- is the scumbling paint the same for exterior work, the internal areas we have  are generally all fine but the exterior metalwork of ours is in need of a redo. It appears that the exterior ones need craftsmaster varnish every second year which is more like every second decade on ours 

 

Ive seen different colours used too- is the a commonly used base and top coat, and is the paints different if for exterior metal? 

 

 

[Ray T]

14 minutes ago, Stroudwater1 said:

Some really good examples there- is the scumbling paint the same for exterior work, the internal areas we have  are generally all fine but the exterior metalwork of ours is in need of a redo. It appears that the exterior ones need craftsmaster varnish every second year which is more like every second decade on ours 

 

Ive seen different colours used too- is the a commonly used base and top coat, and is the paints different if for exterior metal? 

 

 

 

From John M. Hill's book "Colours for Cruisers."
He also produced a similar book for working narrow boats.

 

Waterways World August 1989 has a four page article on scumbling by Tony Lewery.

 

Edited September 30, 2021 by Ray T

[dave moore]

Years ago, Radcliffe’s made a wide range of oil based scumbles with appropriate undercoats. They were taken over long ago by Tor Coatings, based somewhere in the North East. For some reason the oil based stuff fell foul of the VoC regulations and they reverted to making a water based scumble which I’ve never used. Some of the painters I work with swear by it, others at it.....the Sharpness based paint company, Polyvine, now make a light oak ready mixed oil based scumble which some painters use, though it needs to be left for a while before combing or flogging, otherwise it tends to run together again according to colleagues. For what it’s worth I buy their uncoloured scumble glaze and tint it down with light oak stainers that they also supply. It then needs thinning before application. Many of the wide range of Radcliffe’s colours  are no longer available, light oak is commonly used on boats, sometimes medium oak. Maple was one of my favourites many years ago......I still have some at the back of my workshop, for special jobs only.

Dave 

[Dartagnan]

7 hours ago, Tonka said:

No the rear cabin was OK. It was the doors. But which part of the country, only asking as wife currently doing our doors at the moment

Sadly I am way down South near London.

 

4 hours ago, dave moore said:

I suggest that the whole flaking area is flatted down, re undercoated then re grained before applying several coats of a quality varnish such as Craftmaster. Whereabouts are you? I may be able to help with the scumbling if you can prepare the areas. PM me for a phone number if interested. 

Dave

Dave, that is an extremely kind offer and one that I will probably take you up on but I insist on paying.  I am in Harefield but the weather seems to have changed and in addition I probably need to return to Belfast so it will probably be next year.  I have done quite a bit of reading on the subject but I am devoid of any artistic skills.

[Dartagnan]

32 minutes ago, Ray T said:

 

From John M. Hill's book "Colours for Cruisers."
He also produced a similar book for working narrow boats.

 

Waterways World August 1989 has a four page article on scumbling by Tony Lewery.

 

Thank you for the article.  I have read quite a bit about the subject but I haven’t seen this one.

[roland elsdon]

Thaxted had the worst ever graining I ever saw. Very dark on white. Swear it was brown paint just combed. When we rebuilt the cabin in 1993 we stripped it all, and started again with light oak on a light cream , and it was fabulous. ( I say we, it was Mrs E.) On the maiden trip, the bullseye set the tea towel on the gear rod on fire.

we had major smoke and electrical damage ( the light unit melted and the wires tracked with heat).

Fortunately because it was well varnished sugar soap dealt with everything, apart from the white roof boards.

Red dot applied to bullseye.

3 years later we did the same job on the butty, but saved ourselves the fire.

 

When you have little money and two boats you have to learn lots!

 

[RAP]

In my back cabin and engine room I used Dulux trade undercoat coloured to 15868 or 66YY80322, which is a pale yellow, with Polyvine medium oak scumble and varnished with Screwfix’s finest No Nonsense yacht varnish. Here’s an example of the results.

 

 

[Stroudwater1]

 

20 minutes ago, roland elsdon said:

Thaxted had the worst ever graining I ever saw. Very dark on white. Swear it was brown paint just combed. When we rebuilt the cabin in 1993 we stripped it all, and started again with light oak on a light cream , and it was fabulous. ( I say we, it was Mrs E.) On the maiden trip, the bullseye set the tea towel on the gear rod on fire.

we had major smoke and electrical damage ( the light unit melted and the wires tracked with heat).

Fortunately because it was well varnished sugar soap dealt with everything, apart from the white roof boards.

Red dot applied to bullseye.

3 years later we did the same job on the butty, but saved ourselves the fire.

 

When you have little money and two boats you have to learn lots!

 

Sounds a horrible shock, Out of interest what size dot, I imagine is it dependant on the Bullseye? 

[TheBiscuits]

28 minutes ago, roland elsdon said:

On the maiden trip, the bullseye set the tea towel on the gear rod on fire.

 

Which way up did you have it?

 

 

[David Schweizer]

Dave is correct, repairing scumble is almost impossible, and the only lasting solution is to sand it down and re-paint, which is what I did on Helvetia, I used a canary yellow undercoat (as advisd by the late Ron Hough), grained it with Radcliffes Light Oak Scumble, and varnished it with two coats of Blackfriars Yacht Varnish. I was able to purchase a set of combing irons and graining rubbers on ebay, which are neccessary for a decent effect. Here are the doors finished and ready to take handles etc. The Roses and Castles were painted by Ron Hough :-

 

 

 

Edited October 1, 2021 by David Schweizer

[roland elsdon]

19 hours ago, Stroudwater1 said:

 

Sounds a horrible shock, Out of interest what size dot, I imagine is it dependant on the Bullseye? 

Dot about an inch across in the thickest part of the eye , ie greatest focal strength.

It was the old bullseye put in the same way as it had been before.. 

[dave moore]

Years ago I had a similar experience of charring caused by the bull eye. The boat was at Norton Canes at the time and I mentioned the issue to one of the moorers, by profession a scientist. He told me that whichever way the eye was fitted, the potential remained for charring to occur....or worse. His solution, which I adopted, was to fit a circle of frosted perspex to the base of the eye using a few dabs of silicon to hold it in place. The frosted texture dispersed the rays, preventing charring. The boat is now with new owners but the problem remains solved, I was with it only yesterday.

While I’m here, I favour quite a deep yellow undercoat for scumble. With light oak over the top, it gives a honey coloured effect which I liken to “ having the oil lamp lit before it is”

 

 

[Tonka]

1 hour ago, dave moore said:

Years ago I had a similar experience of charring caused by the bull eye. The boat was at Norton Canes at the time and I mentioned the issue to one of the moorers, by profession a scientist. He told me that whichever way the eye was fitted, the potential remained for charring to occur....or worse. His solution, which I adopted, was to fit a circle of frosted perspex to the base of the eye using a few dabs of silicon to hold it in place. The frosted texture dispersed the rays, preventing charring. The boat is now with new owners but the problem remains solved, I was with it only yesterday.

While I’m here, I favour quite a deep yellow undercoat for scumble. With light oak over the top, it gives a honey coloured effect which I liken to “ having the oil lamp lit before it is”

 

 

But you and @David Schweizer have cheated by removing the doors from the boat