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Midnight

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47 minutes ago, dmr said:

 

We have a little delay, we really like to get Ian Mac to help with the Manchester 18 and he is not available till  Thursday 14 so will probably hang about in Bugsworth for a few days. 

 


👍

I’m down to work half term weather permitting, until then I’ll have lots of time to meet up when you’re back. 

 

Just to add;

I could help you up anytime from the 11th. I really need the exercise. 

Edited by Goliath
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4 hours ago, Goliath said:

 

 

I’m here til the end of the month.

Dmr you’ll be back in a week or so?

and Midnight are you still gonna use the Rochdale to get back to the Leeds and Liverpool?

 

There must be a Temperance Hall nearby? We could gather and come up with a plan. 
 

Where are you now - Tod?

Yes going up Failsworth on Tuesday - if it's still open. Only going as far as Battyeford.

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5 hours ago, Goliath said:


👍

I’m down to work half term weather permitting, until then I’ll have lots of time to meet up when you’re back. 

 

Just to add;

I could help you up anytime from the 11th. I really need the exercise. 

 

We are hoping to get Ian Mac on the 14th but if you came down too we could really get a shift on and hopefully get up Slattocks the same day, which would avoid doing Rochdale on a Saturday. Two flights in one day is good exercise.

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9 minutes ago, Midnight said:

Be passing after next weekend

Right on👍
 

Give a shout if you want a hand with locks or a beer 
 

Just now, dmr said:

 

We are hoping to get Ian Mac on the 14th but if you came down too we could really get a shift on and hopefully get up Slattocks the same day, which would avoid doing Rochdale on a Saturday. Two flights in one day is good exercise.


Right on 👍

Will see what I can do. 
 

I’m so unfit, I watched a boat go through lock other day, I had to go for a lay down. 

There’s a cracking bike shop here in Sowerby  Bridge, I’ve been planning on buying a bike for awhile. I think it was 2017 ? when we did the challenge and I had me bike nicked. 
If I buy one I’ll be keen to come lockwheeling. 

 

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On 30/09/2021 at 16:36, Midnight said:

We seem to have moved a long way off the point of my original post which was about the Pennine crossings. Should CRT consider mothballing the costly Huddersfield and Rochdale canals and put their resources into keeping the costly Leeds and Liverpool open.

It's not that simple. Apart from other considerations, both the Huddersfield and the Rochdale were restored with substantial financial contribtributions from Millennium lottery funding. As a condition of that funding BW (as was) and the Waterways Trust (as was), both of whose responsibilities have now been transferred to CRT, agreed to maintain both canals and keep them open for navigation. CRT therefore don't have the legal right to close them.

And the transpennine section of the L&L was designated Cruiseway under the 1968 Transport Act, and CRT are therefore obliged to maintain it (in theory in the condition it was at the date of the passing of the Act).

Any attempt at closing any of the three would therefore involve CRT in a lengthy and protracted legal process with significant opposition, substantial cost, uncertain outcome and a potential PR disaster for the organisation. Frankly not an appealing option for Mr. Parry and co.

 

  • Greenie 2
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On 01/10/2021 at 10:42, Tony1 said:

 

Its certainly a good point. If within a space of 6 months, 70% of all the boats went up for sale, there would be chaos.

There would be a lot fewer buyers around, so boat prices would presumably collapse. 

Boat prices would collapse, which would make boat purchase more attractive to less well off potential liveaboards, who would use the saving in purchase price to fund the additional licence costs. And at the same time those buyers who can only afford to pay £5-10 k, would then find you can get a reasonable boat for that sort of the money, so there would be little market appetite for the boats which currently sell for that much, so many of these would end up abandoned, CRT will Section 8 them, and they will be scrapped.

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On 01/10/2021 at 14:57, Midnight said:

How many times in the past 2 years has it been open to transit between Sowerby Bridge and Manchester?

 

In 2019 I transitted the Rochdale Canal between Manchester and Sowerby Bridge (and on to Salterhebble) 3 times in a 71ft 6in long boat, and once in 2020. I can't do the L&L as the boat is too long, nor am I permitted through Standedge as the boat is too wide. Yes, there were some delays for unplanned stoppages to deal with repairs, but the canal has certainly been passable.

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8 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Boat prices would collapse, which would make boat purchase more attractive to less well off potential liveaboards, who would use the saving in purchase price to fund the additional licence costs. 

 

I'm sure the principle you described is correct, but even a heavily discounted boat price will only pay for a £5k license for so many years. 

 

And in the long term, a £5k license fee will lead to a huge reduction in the numbers of boats using CRT waterways. 

 

Any license fee increases will hopefully be done gradually, so that the boat market and the various supporting industries can adapt to the new situation without a catastrophe.

Many small companies providing very specialised hardware, goods and services to the boating community would go bust if their customer numbers fell by 70% in the space of a year. 

 

CRT will surely be aware of the impact of sudden price rises, and that it could actually reduce their overall license revenue if not handled correctly.

 

As Ian D said above, if the frog is destined to be boiled, it will be boiled very slowly. 

 

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On 01/10/2021 at 20:02, dmr said:

Sounds like we might have some enthusiasm to have a go at this. Will probably have to be 2023??? I'm busy rushing back to the Rochdale right now but will be in touch in a while. I will also talk to the people who organised the last event. I think CRT said 12 boats was the maximum that could go up the Rochdale together, and even that's a bit optimistic.

Can't remember offhand how many boats attended the HNBC 2019 Hebden Bridge gathering, but a lot more than 12 came up from Manchester. But we were all organised into pairs and given a date and time slot to depart from Dale Street, so it may have been a maximum of 12 per day. There were also one or two boats which were not part of the organised event which slipped through between us.

The limit was partly based on water resources, and partly on giving the last departure of the day enough time to complete the Manchester 18 and reach the Boat and Horses within daylight hours.

CRT were certainly very willing to help, along with the usual Manchester 18 volunteers, so another organised event should get their support.

Edited by David Mack
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11 minutes ago, David Mack said:

 

In 2019 I transitted the Rochdale Canal between Manchester and Sowerby Bridge (and on to Salterhebble) 3 times in a 71ft 6in long boat, and once in 2020. I can't do the L&L as the boat is too long, nor am I permitted through Standedge as the boat is too wide. Yes, there were some delays for unplanned stoppages to deal with repairs, but the canal has certainly been passable.

 

We went through on a friends boat and chatted to the tunnel keepers who said width is not a major issue and if we can get to the tunnel they would get us through. I suspect one of the locks is only 6'10" so they probably knew we could not get there 😀. Also I think one lock might be strictly 70'0"????

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3 minutes ago, dmr said:

 

We went through on a friends boat and chatted to the tunnel keepers who said width is not a major issue and if we can get to the tunnel they would get us through. I suspect one of the locks is only 6'10" so they probably knew we could not get there 😀. Also I think one lock might be strictly 70'0"????

I'm tempted to try it next time Belfast is in this part of the world - at least to do from Ashton to Uppermill or Diggle. But when the canal was first reopened, Mikron Theatre Co, based at Marsden and strong supporters of the restoration, tried to bring Tyseley up, and they got stuck fast in Wade Lock at Uppermill. BW claimed that as a listed structure (I think), they couldn't just grind the offending stonework back, and as far as I know there is still a pinch point there. I think this incident was partly the genesis of the onerous dimension restrictions for boats passing through the tunnel which have precluded almost all ex-working boats from even attempting it, although Bream made it through a year or two back.

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3 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Can't remember offhand how many boats attended the HNBC 2019 Hebden Bridge gathering, but a lot more than 12 came up from Manchester. But we were all organised into pairs and given a date and time slot to depart from Dale Street, so it may have been a maximum of 12 per day. There were also one or two boats which were not part of the organised event which slipped through between us.

The limit was partly based on water resources, and partly on giving the last departure of the day enough time to complete the Manchester 18 and reach the Boat and Horses within daylight hours.

CRT were certainly very willing to help, along with the usual Manchester 18 volunteers, so another organised event should get their support.

 

I cant remember, did all the boats come up the same day or was it split over two days? We went down the 18 the day before and carried on down the Rochdale 9 before the fleet sent a whole lot of water down.

 

CRT are trying to keep their government grant and the government is keen on "leveling up" so I don't think CRT will be closing any Northern waterways to put money into the southern system.

  • Greenie 1
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3 hours ago, dmr said:

 

We are hoping to get Ian Mac on the 14th but if you came down too we could really get a shift on and hopefully get up Slattocks the same day, which would avoid doing Rochdale on a Saturday. Two flights in one day is good exercise.

I am generally available for a bit of lock wheeling on the Rochdale.

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1 minute ago, David Mack said:

I'm tempted to try it next time Belfast is in this part of the world - at least to do from Ashton to Uppermill or Diggle. But when the canal was first reopened, Mikron Theatre Co, based at Marsden and strong supporters of the restoration, tried to bring Tyseley up, and they got stuck fast in Wade Lock at Uppermill. BW claimed that as a listed structure (I think), they couldn't just grind the offending stonework back, and as far as I know there is still a pinch point there. I think this incident was partly the genesis of the onerous dimension restrictions for boats passing through the tunnel which have precluded almost all ex-working boats from even attempting it, although Bream made it through a year or two back.

 

How wide is Belfast?

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3 minutes ago, dmr said:

 

I cant remember, did all the boats come up the same day or was it split over two days? We went down the 18 the day before and carried on down the Rochdale 9 before the fleet sent a whole lot of water down.

Up from Manchester was split over at least 2 days. For the return journey, some boats got through Lock 69 (I think), before it failed, others were forced to wait, some at the Irk Aqueduct and some at Littleborough, until the lock reopened, and a couple of shorter boats decided to escape via the C&H instead.

3 minutes ago, dmr said:

 

How wide is Belfast?

According to the plans 7 ft 1/2 inch, but I have never measured it. I suppose while the boat is out of the water I should either build some oversize calipers or do some clever stuff with string lines.

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3 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

I'm tempted to try the Pennine canals next year. I'll try my hardest to scuff the cabin handrails on the sides of Standedge Tunnel.

I bet your handrails wouldn't get anywhere near the tunnel sides.

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Just now, Rob-M said:

I bet your handrails wouldn't get anywhere near the tunnel sides.

 

Well I've never seen the inside of the tunnel other than in photos or videos so while I couldn't be totally confident I'd happily wager a pint they wouldn't get marked. Certainly if I actively tried to avoid it. Although will I be allowed to steer?

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6 minutes ago, Rob-M said:

I bet your handrails wouldn't get anywhere near the tunnel sides.

If you have handrails inset from the cabin edge, then they are pretty safe (but the cabin edge isn't). But if they are on the cabin edge, then the fate of their paintwork is very dependent on the ability of the steerer!

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12 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

I'm tempted to try the Pennine canals next year. I'll try my hardest to scuff the cabin handrails on the sides of Standedge Tunnel.

 

There are a few sticky out rocky bits but otherwise I suspect its a whole lot easier than Harecastle (cant be sure as I went thru on a friends boat with CRT driving). It is a most spectacular tunnel.

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