TV Aerial

[robtheplod]

1 minute ago, IanD said:

https://law.stackexchange.com/questions/53668/do-the-uk-tv-licensing-rules-disregard-innocent-until-proven-guilty

 

•  
  1) If your device "can" receive live broadcast you need a license. Amazon et. al. "can" show live broadcasts, so technically, you need a license. 2) It is called "common" law for a reason. 3) If you have a normal TV you need a license. Nobody has to prove that that you watched it. To avoid prosecution you need to prove not that you didn't, but that you couldn't, have watched it. As you said, Magistrates are not daft. If they simply dismissed everybody who said "wasn't me guv", they wouldn't be needed.

  – Paul Smith

  Aug 17 '20 at 21:19
•  
  It is easier to argue that a streaming service is not a "normal" TV and therefore that the "normal" rules might not apply. That would get you some leeway, but you would still be relying on a certain amount of good luck.If you were watching on a normal TV via a streaming service then I wouldn't give much for your odds. Watching on a laptop and being generally cooperative, you would probably have a reasonable chance of getting away with it.

  – Paul Smith

  Aug 17 '20 at 21:27
•  
  @PaulSmith I can't remember ever having seen live events on Amazon or Netflix.

  – gnasher729

  Jul 12 at 20:07
•  
  Amazon does live sports on their Amazon Prime account. You will find all the details you need here: amazon.co.uk

  – Paul Smith

  Jul 15 at 22:19

You're over thinking it Ian. If/When anyone calls as a TV inspector you just close the door and don't engage. They have the same powers as any other door to door salesman. All convictions come about after people engage and give the inspector the evidence they need, often inadvertently. If you're not watching live TV or iPlayer then you have no reason to engage with them at all as you dont need their services.  This might help?

 

 

[Nightwatch]

On 29/09/2021 at 08:36, Grassman said:

 

 

What everybody else says, a basic log periodic but what makes all the difference is the quality of the co-axial cable.

 

We'd tried quite a few different aerials over the years including some quite expensive ones, but still rarely got a tv signal. We finally bit the bullet and called in a local tv aerial company (based in Burton on Trent) and they changed the cable from standard cable to Quad shield co-axial, plus a basic £15 log periodic aerial. It also hadn't helped that I'd made a bit of a bodge of the various connections, so they rectified that too.

 

Much of our co-axial cable runs under the gunwale next to the electricity cables so with the previous cable I don't know how much this had been causing our signal problems with perhaps some interference, but the extra core and insulation of the new quad shield co-axial must have helped to prevent this, because since making the change 2 years ago we get a TV signal 90%+ of the time, and often when mooring up we don't even have to move the aerial from it's 'in transit' position. We've travelled all over the country and very rarely cannot get a signal nowadays. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If I could go back to basics please. We bought a cheapy pro logic Ariel from Midland Chandlers. (£22 I think). Works wonderfully. Until in  a weak signal area.

After months of humming a arrring I find that it’s the inferior cable to fault. This post is of interest. I like the idea of a good quality cable as described above (quad shield). I can purchase some cable easily.

Does anyone have experience of fitting a connector at the telly end? Is it the same as I have done for many years? Is it a different ‘connector’? Is it best to get an installer onboard to do the job? Seems a bit of an overspend if it’s a basic fix.

[IanD]

55 minutes ago, robtheplod said:

You're over thinking it Ian. If/When anyone calls as a TV inspector you just close the door and don't engage. They have the same powers as any other door to door salesman. All convictions come about after people engage and give the inspector the evidence they need, often inadvertently. If you're not watching live TV or iPlayer then you have no reason to engage with them at all as you dont need their services.  This might help?

 

 

So if you live in a house the legal position is clear -- if you watch or record live TV (including online) or iPlayer, you should have a TV license. If you only watch catchup services (except iPlayer) you don't.

 

It also seems that if you don't have one (and should) there's little the TV licensing authority can do unless you incriminate yourself by admitting what you've done, you just tell them to leave your property.

 

If you do watch iPlayer (or live/recorded TV) and decide you don't want to pay the license because they can't prosecute you, then this a matter for your conscience -- do you think the BBC is worth paying for to provide the programmes (which of course includes radio) that they do?

 

Of course if large numbers of people think the same way and decide not to pay (even though they should) this will reduce the BBC income and restrict what programmes they can make.

 

I'm assuming the same laws apply if you're on a boat, though this isn't 100% clear since all the advice refers to "property"...

3 minutes ago, Nightwatch said:

If I could go back to basics please. We bought a cheapy pro logic Ariel from Midland Chandlers. (£22 I think). Works wonderfully. Until in  a weak signal area.

After months of humming a arrring I find that it’s the inferior cable to fault. This post is of interest. I like the idea of a good quality cable as described above (quad shield). I can purchase some cable easily.

Does anyone have experience of fitting a connector at the telly end? Is it the same as I have done for many years? Is it a different ‘connector’? Is it best to get an installer onboard to do the job? Seems a bit of an overspend if it’s a basic fix.

The connectors are exactly the same type, but it might pay to get a higher-quality one which makes better contact with both cable and socket.

Edited September 30, 2021 by IanD

[Nightwatch]

3 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

So if you live in a house the legal position is clear -- if you watch or record live TV (including online) or iPlayer, you should have a TV license. If you only watch catchup services (except iPlayer) you don't.

 

It also seems that if you don't have one (and should) there's little the TV licensing authority can do unless you incriminate yourself by admitting what you've done, you just tell them to leave your property.

 

If you do watch iPlayer (or live/recorded TV) and decide you don't want to pay the license because they can't prosecute you, then this a matter for your conscience -- do you think the BBC is worth paying for to provide the programmes (which of course includes radio) that they do?

 

Of course if large numbers of people think the same way and decide not to pay (even though they should) this will reduce the BBC income and restrict what programmes they can make.

 

I'm assuming the same laws apply if you're on a boat, though this isn't 100% clear since all the advice refers to "property"...

The connectors are exactly the same type, but it might pay to get a higher-quality one which makes better contact with both cable and socket.

Thanks Ian.

[robtheplod]

12 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

So if you live in a house the legal position is clear -- if you watch or record live TV (including online) or iPlayer, you should have a TV license. If you only watch catchup services (except iPlayer) you don't.  correct

 

It also seems that if you don't have one (and should) there's little the TV licensing authority can do unless you incriminate yourself by admitting what you've done, you just tell them to leave your property. correct. Most prosecutions are at home mothers who are intimidated into engaging with the sales person.

 

If you do watch iPlayer (or live/recorded TV) and decide you don't want to pay the license because they can't prosecute you, then this a matter for your conscience -- do you think the BBC is worth paying for to provide the programmes (which of course includes radio) that they do? I don't personally - not watched BBC for two years and not missed it. Incidentally you can still listen to radio without a licence (even BBC). You shouldn't watch iPlayer if you don't have a licence.

 

Of course if large numbers of people think the same way and decide not to pay (even though they should) this will reduce the BBC income and restrict what programmes they can make. True. I've seen figures that around 500 people a day are currently deciding to go licence free and I can only see this growing as people turn to online services.

 

I'm assuming the same laws apply if you're on a boat, though this isn't 100% clear since all the advice refers to "property"...  same applies

 

 

answers in with above...

Edited September 30, 2021 by robtheplod

[IanD]

18 minutes ago, Nightwatch said:

Thanks Ian.

If it works for your installation, you'd probably be better buying a ready-made quad-shielded cable assembly with good quality connectors already assembled onto both ends, for example:

 

https://www.futureshop.co.uk/gb-quad-shielded-coaxial-tv-aerial-cable

 

Also the connectors needed might be different for quad-shielded cable, see here...

 

https://blog.solidsignal.com/tutorials/when-should-you-use-quad-shielded-cable/

 

"I generally don’t recommend people use quad-shield cable unless they know they need it. It’s more expensive and requires special connectors. It’s thicker and harder to work with. Generally it’s a lot more of a pain when you’re doing an install, especially if this is an existing building when you can’t just put the cables anywhere you want."

Edited September 30, 2021 by IanD

[Guest]

CBA

Edited September 30, 2021 by The Happy Nomad

[doratheexplorer]

4 hours ago, The Happy Nomad said:

 

It may be strong everywhere you have tried your omni direction aerial but it certainly isnt strong everywhere.

 

As we move around the UK it is definitely variable. One of the weakest signals we get of all places is at home. Has been for the 26 years we have lived there. Hence we now have Freesat not Freeview at home. (Sky TV before that.)

 

( As an aside the signal did disappear all together last month after a fire at the Bilsdale transmitter but that of course was a temporary and highly unusual issue. )

I probably moor at around 30-40 locations a year, and have been using an omni aerial for years now. I think there has only been one time I got no signal and I don't really know why.  I tend to favour mooring in more remote rural spots too.

[Guest]

Just now, doratheexplorer said:

I probably moor at around 30-40 locations a year, and have been using an omni aerial for years now. I think there has only been one time I got no signal and I don't really know why.  I tend to favour mooring in more remote rural spots too.

 

Yes it will work fine in a good signal area. The reason it probably didn't work on one occasion was simply because signal wasn't good enough.

 

As plenty of others have said along with myself they are not suited to a weak signal area.

 

You have also been provided with a detailed (If long winded) explanation by Ian_D of why this is. To quote Star Trek's Scotty 'Ya cannae change the law of physics.....'

[Nightwatch]

1 hour ago, IanD said:

If it works for your installation, you'd probably be better buying a ready-made quad-shielded cable assembly with good quality connectors already assembled onto both ends, for example:

 

https://www.futureshop.co.uk/gb-quad-shielded-coaxial-tv-aerial-cable

 

Also the connectors needed might be different for quad-shielded cable, see here...

 

https://blog.solidsignal.com/tutorials/when-should-you-use-quad-shielded-cable/

 

"I generally don’t recommend people use quad-shield cable unless they know they need it. It’s more expensive and requires special connectors. It’s thicker and harder to work with. Generally it’s a lot more of a pain when you’re doing an install, especially if this is an existing building when you can’t just put the cables anywhere you want."

The lead at the Ariel end is soldered. No connector. Maybe invest is a quality quad cabled Ariel?

[doratheexplorer]

8 minutes ago, The Happy Nomad said:

 

Yes it will work fine in a good signal area. The reason it probably didn't work on one occasion was simply because signal wasn't good enough.

 

As plenty of others have said along with myself they are not suited to a weak signal area.

 

You have also been provided with a detailed (If long winded) explanation by Ian_D of why this is. To quote Star Trek's Scotty 'Ya cannae change the law of physics.....'

Ian_D is on my block list so...

 

The point is, I've failed to get signal once out of probably 200 locations.  I highly doubt a traditional aerial would do any better, unless it's up a 30' pole.  There's no way I'm faffing about with a 30' pole when it's a total non-issue for me.

 

In fact, come to think of it, I was walking along the towpath at Dunhampstead a few weeks back and a boater had a truly enormous pole (at least 30') with a log periodic on top.  I commented about it to him as I walked past and he grumbled at me that he still couldn't pick up the channels her wanted.  What amused me about that is it was one of my favourite places to moor and I've not had a problem there.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:

Ian_D is on my block list so...

 

The point is, I've failed to get signal once out of probably 200 locations.  I highly doubt a traditional aerial would do any better, unless it's up a 30' pole.  There's no way I'm faffing about with a 30' pole when it's a total non-issue for me.

 

In fact, come to think of it, I was walking along the towpath at Dunhampstead a few weeks back and a boater had a truly enormous pole (at least 30') with a log periodic on top.  I commented about it to him as I walked past and he grumbled at me that he still couldn't pick up the channels her wanted.  What amused me about that is it was one of my favourite places to moor and I've not had a problem there.

 

Probably he was using poor quality co-ax cable or had a dodgy connection somewhere.

 

But then for you it's obviously a no brainer stick with what you know.

 

As will those of us who choose to do it our way.

 

BTW - you should take Ian off your block list he very occasionally posts something interesting.

Edited September 30, 2021 by The Happy Nomad

[IanD]

17 minutes ago, The Happy Nomad said:

 

Probably he was using poor quality co-ax cable or had a dodgy connection somewhere.

 

But then for you it's obviously a no brainer stick with what you know.

 

As will those of us who choose to do it our way.

 

BTW - you should take Ian off your block list he very occasionally posts something interesting.

 

Different people obviously have different experiences here -- some find an omni antenna works for them, others don't and find that they need a directional one to get reliable reception. Since this depends almost entirely on exactly where you moor -- even a few meters can make a big difference if there are obstructions or reflections -- it shouldn't be surprising. Without a signal level survey of the entire network at intervals of a few yards, the experience of any one boater is anecdotal -- in other words, "it works for me" doesn't prove that "it'll work for you", and vice versa.

 

The obvious solution for newcomers is to try an omni first because it's convenient, but be prepared to switch to a less convenient directional antenna if this doesn't give reliable enough coverage. But either way, make sure to use good-quality cable and connectors -- quad-shielded may help in a few cases with a lot of interference, but won't make any difference in most cases.

Edited September 30, 2021 by IanD

[GUMPY]

5 hours ago, IanD said:

You can't watch in real-time without a license, but you can watch using the catch-up services shortly afterwards -- often while the program is still live. But you might have a problem proving this if the TV licensing bods ever come calling, because you *could* be watching live TV even if you say you never do...

Yes but even with a licence, that I have, you still can't stream live from the tablet. I can watch live on the tab just not stream it to the TV. Almost as annoying as having to connect the laptop with an HDMI cable  to the TV to use the TV to watch SkyGo because it won't let me stream from the Tab😟

[Machpoint005]

On 29/09/2021 at 04:39, reg said:

Tried multiple aerials over the years and should of just stuck to a bog standard cheepo. If you have line of sight you have line of sight, simples! ... 

 

 

https://www.screwfix.com/p/labgear-log-periodic-aerial/67576?kpid=67576&ds_kid=92700055281954487&ds_rl=1249401&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI1bzHraGj8wIVCRl7Ch2wJAS_EAQYASABEgIvDfD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

 

That's the one. It has gorn up by 50p since I bought mine a few years ago.

[robtheplod]

11 minutes ago, Loddon said:

Yes but even with a licence, that I have, you still can't stream live from the tablet. I can watch live on the tab just not stream it to the TV. Almost as annoying as having to connect the laptop with an HDMI cable  to the TV to use the TV to watch SkyGo because it won't let me stream from the Tab😟

Get a Roku as in the link earlier... easy to use and gives your TV everything it needs if you also have WiFi on the boat?

[IanD]

17 minutes ago, Loddon said:

Yes but even with a licence, that I have, you still can't stream live from the tablet. I can watch live on the tab just not stream it to the TV. Almost as annoying as having to connect the laptop with an HDMI cable  to the TV to use the TV to watch SkyGo because it won't let me stream from the Tab😟

 

Does your tablet have a USB-C socket? If so you can get USB-C to HDMI adapters so the TV acts as an external display, like you do with the laptop.

 

If it doesn't, the problem is your tablet... 😉

 

[streaming live TV from the tablet is probably not permitted for licensing reasons...]

Edited September 30, 2021 by IanD

[GUMPY]

10 minutes ago, robtheplod said:

Get a Roku as in the link earlier... easy to use and gives your TV everything it needs if you also have WiFi on the boat?

Does Roku allow you to watch C4 ,ITV and CH5 live,  this may be a solution. However  I already have Chromecast and C knows how to use it. If I need to change............

7 minutes ago, IanD said:

Does your tablet have a USB-C socket? If so you can get USB-C to HDMI adapters so the TV acts as an external display, like you do with the laptop.

 

The Tablet I use for streaming is as old as the hills and is pre USB-C.

 It's only used for connecting to Chromecast for streaming.

[robtheplod]

7 minutes ago, Loddon said:

Does Roku allow you to watch C4 ,ITV and CH5 live,  this may be a solution. However  I already have Chromecast and C knows how to use it. If I need to change............

 

Yes you get the whole range of services. it really is the simplest way of viewing online.

[IanD]

13 minutes ago, Loddon said:

Does Roku allow you to watch C4 ,ITV and CH5 live,  this may be a solution. However  I already have Chromecast and C knows how to use it. If I need to change............

The Tablet I use for streaming is as old as the hills and is pre USB-C.

 It's only used for connecting to Chromecast for streaming.

 

The way that video/TV licensing and DRM works is that something which decodes the signal can only pipe the results to a local display that it's connected to (via cable or wirelessly) and where DRM is enabled, so that it can be watched; it's not permitted to just stream the video signal out to anything else over a network, because this can then be used to rebroadcast and evade DRM controls.

 

I haven't got one but AFAIK a Roku lets you watch live TV on the display/TV that it's connected to, again DRM is involved just like it is with a tablet or laptop.

 

Can't you plug the Chromecast directly into the TV instead of the tablet?

Edited September 30, 2021 by IanD

[GUMPY]

3 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

The way that video/TV licensing and DRM works is that something which decodes the signal can only pipe the results to a local display that it's connected to (via cable or wirelessly) and where DRM is enabled, so that it can be watched; it's not permitted to just stream the video signal out to anything else over a network, because this can then be used to rebroadcast and evade DRM controls.

I understand the licensing/legal problems but it doesn't stop it being a PITA

[Alway Swilby]

Talking of streaming from the internet how do you get over the commercial channels forcing you to watch the adverts by not being able to wizz through them? I have a terrestrial aerial connected to a PVR and record loads of stuff on to it. When watching if an advert comes on I just wizz through it. On the rare occasions thet there is a poor signal I do resort to the iplayer, itv hub, all4 etc built in to the telly. However I then have to watch ( or rather ignore) the adverts.

[robtheplod]

Just now, Alway Swilby said:

Talking of streaming from the internet how do you get over the commercial channels forcing you to watch the adverts by not being able to wizz through them? I have a terrestrial aerial connected to a PVR and record loads of stuff on to it. When watching if an advert comes on I just wizz through it. On the rare occasions thet there is a poor signal I do resort to the iplayer, itv hub, all4 etc built in to the telly. However I then have to watch ( or rather ignore) the adverts.

You have to watch them, but there tends to be less of them. If you're watching older programmes then sometimes there's no ads at all....

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Alway Swilby said:

Talking of streaming from the internet how do you get over the commercial channels forcing you to watch the adverts by not being able to wizz through them? I have a terrestrial aerial connected to a PVR and record loads of stuff on to it. When watching if an advert comes on I just wizz through it. On the rare occasions thet there is a poor signal I do resort to the iplayer, itv hub, all4 etc built in to the telly. However I then have to watch ( or rather ignore) the adverts.

 

You can't and it's of course deliberate,

 

If you upgrade to ITV Hub+ though for example you don't get any ads.

Edited September 30, 2021 by The Happy Nomad

[robtheplod]

11 minutes ago, The Happy Nomad said:

 

You can't and it's of course deliberate,

 

If you upgrade to ITV Hub+ though for example you don't get any ads.

Indeed, but to be fair you're getting it for free so some payback!