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Boat Prices and Current Market


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35 minutes ago, Naughty Cal said:

Such is life. 

 

It isn't just boats. People are going through the same with house, car, caravan and motorhome sales.

 

You need to make sure you get in there and are the first to know about any new item coming for sale and that involves putting in the leg work not sitting and complaining that life isn't fair.

No need to make things up! I was making a point about the way one company operates, not about life in general! and to suggest that I am not doing the legwork is just rude.

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1 hour ago, MtB said:

 

Honestly get a grip!

 

"First world problems", and all that...

 

Resorting to insults MtB. What a nice person you are. In the wider scheme of things of course any of us buying (or not buying) boats or any other problems we have with boats is not important but, this is a boating/canal forum! it was set up to discuss boats including sometime when a boating subject is not positive experience to a member. Clearly you do not agree with the points I have raised and I am happy for you to punch into you keyboard with your views but please do not insult me.

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15 minutes ago, northern said:

 

I can empathise to an extent and what I write isn't aimed at you personally, more anyone that's found themselves in the same situation.  I'm pretty new to boating having only sold a small leisure boat last summer after a fairly short period of ownership.  I ended up living aboard for a chunk of last year, mostly through the lockdowns, by choice and really enjoyed it.  So much so, whilst I'm in my late 30s with no debts or family responsibilities or excuses, and young enough to make a potential mistake, that I finally found the courage and bollocks to press on with moving aboard full-time.  Since the start of this year I've had the funds available but encountered similar upsets and issues:

  • A few months ago I set off very early in the morning to view a boat at Rugby Boats in the knowledge that I'd be the second person to view, only to get a call when I was 5 minutes away to say it was sold to viewer number 1.  That was a 200 mile round trip
  • Same circumstances as above, except I did make it to the broker and managed to view the boat this time.  The first people who viewed bought it and the broker promised me a call once he knew whether they were prepared to make an offer, and wouldn't accept mine until he'd had theirs.  I never did get that call and only knew it'd gone because they did find the time to update their website a few hours later.  That broker in question is a smug Cheshire-based marina
  • I had to take to small claims court the seller the private seller of a boat post-survey result to get my deposit back after he reneged on the sale terms.  I won and got it back but it was unwanted stress 
  • I've clocked up hundreds and hundreds of miles of driving to see boats, excited at the prospect, only to find it's no good for varying reasons and encountered the feeling of hopelessness 

I've also had the bare the expense of having boats surveyed only to find there's varying issues and the sale fall through.  Note here I don't say the money was wasted; what I learned a lot more from the surveyor each time this happened, in terms of what to look for and what to do next time I find a boat even before I call him to arrange a survey has been invaluable.  Knowing what I know now, I'd have never even gotten to the offer or survey stage with said boats.  But the painful experience has been well worth it.

 

With all this going on, I ended up sinking dead money into renting a house for most of this year, thinking that I'd have secured a boat well before now.  And despite all this, with me coming close every now and again to giving up due to disillusionment, and coming to terms with it all being a misguided idea and flitting to wanting to pursue buying another house instead, I haven't given up.  I think most in my shoes would have done so.

 

It's very easy to focus on the negatives when it's not going your way.  That's not intended criticism, more a reflection of how I've felt.  But when looking at things with a clear head and objectively, I'd say that:

  • If you really want it to happen, you'll go to the lengths necessary to make it so.  I've booked 3 separate weeks of annual leave from work this year so I'm not constrained if something come to market, enabling to me to jump in the car immediately as well as the time to put the groundwork in with the brokers mentioned below.  This really paid off - I got to see lots of boats, many unlisted - and not many would be willing to make this sacrifice with their holidays, I reckon
  • You'll have to do the groundwork with the brokers.  Most of the bigger ones won't be calling you when something's on its way which meets your needs.  They've no need to do so in the current climate
  • I've a list of maybe 20 brokers, from small to large, I've proactively called to ask whether they've got anything sat unlisted or on its way which meets your requirements.  It's a fag packet estimate but I reckon maybe 25% of the brokers, including Rugby Boats, gave me the details of exactly just that and gave me the opportunity to view before they listed them 
  • Speaking to boatbuilders who only do a bit of brokerage on the side for boat they've usually previously built, threw up great results.  One in particular, a very top end builder actually, not only spent a few hours with me in person after a viewing, chatting and giving advice but proactively got in touch several times since detailing boats they were about to broker to see if I'd be interested
  • As above, with smaller marinas that do a bit of brokerage only for their own moorers
  • You're dealing with people and not just companies.  I've found with one broker who runs a whole load of marinas, the experience differed wildly from marina to marina.  One marina couldn't be more helpful in terms of giving me details of an unlisted boat they were about to sell and invited me to view, whereas another took a smart-arsed response and generally treated me with contempt; "how do you know it's for sale then if it's not even listed!", rather than offering help
  • Stating your position to brokers early on helps.  I've seen countless sale fall through, only to speak to the broker and be told it was because the intended buyer's house sale fell through or the generally didn't have the cash, rather than it being the result of a duff survey.  If you've got the cash ready, make it clear
  • The terms of sale for buyers are so poor with some brokers you may wish to rule some brokers out altogether.  It might be worth getting copies or an understanding of them, as I did, and make your mind up from there
  • I don't hold any ill will towards those who've bought and sold boats without giving me a call.  It's not their responsibility to call me.  However, I will remember those who lied, acted smugly or treated me with contempt.  When things inevitably go full circle in the future and it becomes a buyer's market, I'll not forget the good and the bad experiences and would be happy to share them with anyone who might ask
  • Things are starting to change a little.  Boats which would normally have gone quickly are now taking days, if not longer.  Some of the prominent YouTubers have jacked it in, so perhaps it's falling out of favour slightly.  We're coming into winter and the weather's turned - carrying out viewing in the lashing rain and cold won't be too appealing to many and will put off those who've have likely seen and bought had it been a lovely sunny day

Maybe it was down to this approach or just pot luck but I managed to view and get an offer in on a boat last week before it made Apollo Duck, just through checking the marina's website.  Subject to survey in 2 weeks, it's mine.  Indeed things are so favourable with the marina that the contract doesn't even call for a deposit.

 

Best wishes in finding a boat and to all those in the same situation.  Fingers crossed I'll be living aboard very soon.

 

Now I've got to find a mooring and a professional boat mover but you can't have it all 🙂 

 

 

Thankyou very much for your comment. It shows just what this forum is about and I hope others take note. I was at the point of leaving this forum after the personal attacks I have received but you have restored my faith! All the points you make are valid and made from the viewpoint of helping other members. I am an experience boat owner (and ex marine engineer) of many years so I do have a good knowledge of how brokerage work and agree that with the coming winter things may change more to the buyers advantage. I wish you lots of luck and hope all goes well with your new boat. If I can be of any help, please do not hesitate to message me.

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20 minutes ago, BrandyMark said:

Thankyou very much for your comment. It shows just what this forum is about and I hope others take note. I was at the point of leaving this forum after the personal attacks I have received but you have restored my faith! All the points you make are valid and made from the viewpoint of helping other members. I am an experience boat owner (and ex marine engineer) of many years so I do have a good knowledge of how brokerage work and agree that with the coming winter things may change more to the buyers advantage. I wish you lots of luck and hope all goes well with your new boat. If I can be of any help, please do not hesitate to message me.

 

Thank you.  Appreciated.  Though I've been on here only 5 minutes and can't say I've contributed much!

 

Thanks for your offer.  You might regret that.  I know sod all in the grand scheme of things!

 

 

Edited by northern
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1 hour ago, BrandyMark said:

No need to make things up! I was making a point about the way one company operates, not about life in general! and to suggest that I am not doing the legwork is just rude.

That company is just being more honest and up front about the speed of the market than all the others, if that puts you off them then they are probably best off without your trade.

None of my comments are personal attacks on you, I am just trying to open your eyes on to how daft the market is at present.

I do not directly work for any broker, although have been paid by many for services rendered. I have never worked for, or been paid for any involvement with a 2 site brokerage with caravans as a side interest, although have had lots to do with their sale boats soon  after.....in a fixing basis. I follow the boat market out of personal interest, I find it fascinating.(anorak)

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1 hour ago, northern said:

 

I can empathise to an extent and what I write isn't aimed at you personally, more anyone that's found themselves in the same situation.  I'm pretty new to boating having only sold a small leisure boat last summer after a fairly short period of ownership.  I ended up living aboard for a chunk of last year, mostly through the lockdowns, by choice and really enjoyed it.  So much so, whilst I'm in my late 30s with no debts or family responsibilities or excuses, and young enough to make a potential mistake, that I finally found the courage and bollocks to press on with moving aboard full-time.  Since the start of this year I've had the funds available but encountered similar upsets and issues:

  • A few months ago I set off very early in the morning to view a boat at Rugby Boats in the knowledge that I'd be the second person to view, only to get a call when I was 5 minutes away to say it was sold to viewer number 1.  That was a 200 mile round trip
  • Same circumstances as above, except I did make it to the broker and managed to view the boat this time.  The first people who viewed bought it and the broker promised me a call once he knew whether they were prepared to make an offer, and wouldn't accept mine until he'd had theirs.  I never did get that call and only knew it'd gone because they did find the time to update their website a few hours later.  That broker in question is a smug Cheshire-based marina
  • I had to take to small claims court the seller the private seller of a boat post-survey result to get my deposit back after he reneged on the sale terms.  I won and got it back but it was unwanted stress 
  • I've clocked up hundreds and hundreds of miles of driving to see boats, excited at the prospect, only to find it's no good for varying reasons and encountered the feeling of hopelessness 

I've also had the bare the expense of having boats surveyed only to find there's varying issues and the sale fall through.  Note here I don't say the money was wasted; what I learned a lot more from the surveyor each time this happened, in terms of what to look for and what to do next time I find a boat even before I call him to arrange a survey has been invaluable.  Knowing what I know now, I'd have never even gotten to the offer or survey stage with said boats.  But the painful experience has been well worth it.

 

With all this going on, I ended up sinking dead money into renting a house for most of this year, thinking that I'd have secured a boat well before now.  And despite all this, with me coming close every now and again to giving up due to disillusionment, and coming to terms with it all being a misguided idea and flitting to wanting to pursue buying another house instead, I haven't given up.  I think most in my shoes would have done so.

 

It's very easy to focus on the negatives when it's not going your way.  That's not intended criticism, more a reflection of how I've felt.  But when looking at things with a clear head and objectively, I'd say that:

  • If you really want it to happen, you'll go to the lengths necessary to make it so.  I've booked 3 separate weeks of annual leave from work this year so I'm not constrained if something come to market, enabling to me to jump in the car immediately as well as the time to put the groundwork in with the brokers mentioned below.  This really paid off - I got to see lots of boats, many unlisted - and not many would be willing to make this sacrifice with their holidays, I reckon
  • You'll have to do the groundwork with the brokers.  Most of the bigger ones won't be calling you when something's on its way which meets your needs.  They've no need to do so in the current climate
  • I've a list of maybe 20 brokers, from small to large, I've proactively called to ask whether they've got anything sat unlisted or on its way which meets your requirements.  It's a fag packet estimate but I reckon maybe 25% of the brokers, including Rugby Boats, gave me the details of exactly just that and gave me the opportunity to view before they listed them 
  • Speaking to boatbuilders who only do a bit of brokerage on the side for boat they've usually previously built, threw up great results.  One in particular, a very top end builder actually, not only spent a few hours with me in person after a viewing, chatting and giving advice but proactively got in touch several times since detailing boats they were about to broker to see if I'd be interested
  • As above, with smaller marinas that do a bit of brokerage only for their own moorers
  • You're dealing with people and not just companies.  I've found with one broker who runs a whole load of marinas, the experience differed wildly from marina to marina.  One marina couldn't be more helpful in terms of giving me details of an unlisted boat they were about to sell and invited me to view, whereas another took a smart-arsed response and generally treated me with contempt; "how do you know it's for sale then if it's not even listed!", rather than offering help
  • Stating your position to brokers early on helps.  I've seen countless sale fall through, only to speak to the broker and be told it was because the intended buyer's house sale fell through or the generally didn't have the cash, rather than it being the result of a duff survey.  If you've got the cash ready, make it clear
  • The terms of sale for buyers are so poor with some brokers you may wish to rule some brokers out altogether.  It might be worth getting copies or an understanding of them, as I did, and make your mind up from there
  • I don't hold any ill will towards those who've bought and sold boats without giving me a call.  It's not their responsibility to call me.  However, I will remember those who lied, acted smugly or treated me with contempt.  When things inevitably go full circle in the future and it becomes a buyer's market, I'll not forget the good and the bad experiences and would be happy to share them with anyone who might ask
  • Things are starting to change a little.  Boats which would normally have gone quickly are now taking days, if not longer.  Some of the prominent YouTubers have jacked it in, so perhaps it's falling out of favour slightly.  We're coming into winter and the weather's turned - carrying out viewing in the lashing rain and cold won't be too appealing to many and will put off those who've have likely seen and bought had it been a lovely sunny day

Maybe it was down to this approach or just pot luck but I managed to view and get an offer in on a boat last week before it made Apollo Duck, just through checking the marina's website.  Subject to survey in 2 weeks, it's mine.  Indeed things are so favourable with the marina that the contract doesn't even call for a deposit.

 

Best wishes in finding a boat and to all those in the same situation.  Fingers crossed I'll be living aboard very soon.

 

Now I've got to find a mooring and a professional boat mover but you can't have it all 🙂 

 

 

Greeny for a very well balanced and obviously hard worked post. You have done what it takes to get the right boat.

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5 minutes ago, matty40s said:

Greeny for a very well balanced and obviously hard worked post. You have done what it takes to get the right boat.

 

Thank you.  The boat's not 100% in terms of what I was looking for.  I'd be looking forever to find something that was.  There's no washing machine which is trivial, and no obvious place to put one, even if the lovely solid wood kitchen with inlayed detail got butchered, which isn't so trivial.  And the water tank is very small even for a non-liveaboard (200 litres!).  But to balance that, it's a 1 owner boat, immaculately kept and recently been repainted and has just about everything else I want (including portholes which seem a rarity now).

 

I'm happy with the agreed price.  I want to get 12 months' experience and all 4 seasons experienced as a liveaboard and see where I go from there.

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54 minutes ago, BrandyMark said:

Thankyou very much for your comment. It shows just what this forum is about and I hope others take note. I was at the point of leaving this forum after the personal attacks I have received but you have restored my faith! All the points you make are valid and made from the viewpoint of helping other members. I am an experience boat owner (and ex marine engineer) of many years so I do have a good knowledge of how brokerage work and agree that with the coming winter things may change more to the buyers advantage. I wish you lots of luck and hope all goes well with your new boat. If I can be of any help, please do not hesitate to message me.

 

Can you link to the personal attacks you have been subjected to please?

 

I think I must have missed them.

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Just now, Stroudwater1 said:

Very well put. Glad you have one and hope all works out well. 
Is it not possible to move it yourself though? You may enjoy that part perhaps? 

 

Thank you.

 

With all the annual leave I've taken I've not enough time to do the journey as much as I'd like to.  It's currently on the Ashby.  I'm hoping to get it move to Great Haywood which'll take 3 days or so and take it from there - I'm hoping to find a mooring somewhere on the SU - I've got enough time to take it from GH onwards, just.  I need to crack on soon because of winter closures.

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6 minutes ago, northern said:

 

Thank you.

 

With all the annual leave I've taken I've not enough time to do the journey as much as I'd like to.  It's currently on the Ashby.  I'm hoping to get it move to Great Haywood which'll take 3 days or so and take it from there - I'm hoping to find a mooring somewhere on the SU - I've got enough time to take it from GH onwards, just.  I need to crack on soon because of winter closures.

 

Have you thought of asking @matty40s ?

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10 hours ago, BrandyMark said:

No need to make things up! I was making a point about the way one company operates, not about life in general! and to suggest that I am not doing the legwork is just rude.

I'm not sure what you think I'm making up. We were in a very similar situation to yourself earlier in the year when we were buying our motorhome. We knew what make and model we wanted but none were available and those that came available sold before marketing. 

 

We were on all the dealer lists, joined all the forums and Farcebook groups and eventually got a lead to one that had literally been traded in a few minutes previous. We got straight onto the dealer and reserved it sight unseen. 

 

Had we not put the effort (and it was a lot of leg work and effort and phone calls and miles driven in vain) in we would still be in the same situation now rather than touring Scotland in our van, as hardly any used ones have come to the market this year and the price of new ones has gone up £10k. 

 

ETA: we were at the other side of the table earlier in the year when we had 3 offers on the table for our boat from 3 people who had never seen it. It went sight unseen, no survey and for over the asking price almost as soon as it went for sale. It was incredibly difficult to try to sort out the offers and pick the best one. In the end we chose the chap with the cash available and ready to buy. 

Edited by Naughty Cal
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On 06/10/2021 at 20:32, The Happy Nomad said:

 

I dont think we got the whole story with that episode.

And the story is far from over.A final letter of demand was issued to said broker, who made a swift u turn, however there is still money outstanding,  which will no doubt end up in small claims  court. I wonder who your reliable sources of information are?

 

 

 

 

Edited by Adventurer
U turn, small claims court.
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28 minutes ago, Adventurer said:

And the story is far from over.A final letter of demand was issued to said broker, who made a swift u turn, however there is still money outstanding,  which will no doubt end up in small claims  court. I wonder who your reliable sources of information are?

 

 

 

 

 

You will be telling us what your alleged 'disgusting behaviour' was then I take it?

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35 minutes ago, The Happy Nomad said:

 

You will be telling us what your alleged 'disgusting behaviour' was then I take it?

I've already confirmed so on one of the threads. Another member similarly confirmed that as soon as you challenge a member of the brokerage's behaviour, you are either "aggressive " or in this instance it was " disgusting."  For instance your comment..." You will be telling us.....I take it" would be taken offensive to.

He needed an excuse to cancel, so he found one. His antics didnt end there, he took it a step further and allegedly called the surveyors instructed by me to perform the survey earlier this week, who allegedly said to him they would not perform a survey on the boat, according to him. (I had copied them in on relevant communication, which may affect their services: He had also given me an ultimatum that the sale was 100% CANCELLED & that the matter was closed.) The Brokerage subsequently responded to my letter of final demand (which stated all of the antics leading up to the cancellation,) to say that I could proceed the boat if I still wanted to, but need to find new surveyors or take it without a survey, which if it wasnt in his marina, might have been an option. Another attempt to make right in a most unethical way.At which point the legal advice I received was RUN! 

 

 

Edited by Adventurer
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58 minutes ago, Adventurer said:

I've already confirmed so on one of the threads. Another member similarly confirmed that as soon as you challenge a member of the brokerage's behaviour, you are either "aggressive " or in this instance it was " disgusting."  For instance your comment..." You will be telling us.....I take it" would be taken offensive to.

He needed an excuse to cancel, so he found one. His antics didnt end there, he took it a step further and allegedly called the surveyors instructed by me to perform the survey earlier this week, who allegedly said to him they would not perform a survey on the boat, according to him. (I had copied them in on relevant communication, which may affect their services: He had also given me an ultimatum that the sale was 100% CANCELLED & that the matter was closed.) The Brokerage subsequently responded to my letter of final demand (which stated all of the antics leading up to the cancellation,) to say that I could proceed the boat if I still wanted to, but need to find new surveyors or take it without a survey, which if it wasnt in his marina, might have been an option. Another attempt to make right in a most unethical way.At which point the legal advice I received was RUN! 

 

 

 

Sorry what I meant is that we haven't got both sides of the story.

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2 hours ago, Naughty Cal said:

I'm not sure what you think I'm making up. We were in a very similar situation to yourself earlier in the year when we were buying our motorhome. We knew what make and model we wanted but none were available and those that came available sold before marketing. 

 

We were on all the dealer lists, joined all the forums and Farcebook groups and eventually got a lead to one that had literally been traded in a few minutes previous. We got straight onto the dealer and reserved it sight unseen. 

 

Had we not put the effort (and it was a lot of leg work and effort and phone calls and miles driven in vain) in we would still be in the same situation now rather than touring Scotland in our van, as hardly any used ones have come to the market this year and the price of new ones has gone up £10k. 

 

ETA: we were at the other side of the table earlier in the year when we had 3 offers on the table for our boat from 3 people who had never seen it. It went sight unseen, no survey and for over the asking price almost as soon as it went for sale. It was incredibly difficult to try to sort out the offers and pick the best one. In the end we chose the chap with the cash available and ready to buy. 

 

I called into our local caravan dealers last week for the first time in ages for some toilet fluid.

 

The yard which is normally full of vans they have taken in part ex was virtually bare.  What was left was a handfull of mostly ropey looking 'vans.

 

One caught my eye because it was similar to our last 'van, a 2015 Challenger, so 4 years old. It was up at around only £2k or £3k less than it would have been new. It was the only half decent one they had in stock.

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9 hours ago, northern said:

 

Thank you.

 

With all the annual leave I've taken I've not enough time to do the journey as much as I'd like to.  It's currently on the Ashby.  I'm hoping to get it move to Great Haywood which'll take 3 days or so and take it from there - I'm hoping to find a mooring somewhere on the SU - I've got enough time to take it from GH onwards, just.  I need to crack on soon because of winter closures.

Thank you for posting your experiences, which made interesting reading.

 

Not sure if this helps, but we recently bought ours in Nottingham and are heading for a mooring in Market Drayton. We are weekending it across. Trains are involved in the car shuffle and so far we have found the following:

 

Moorings on the SU were tricky to find. There were a couple advertised on the CRT website, one towpath side at Norbury and one on a pontoon in Market Drayton. We were specifically looking between Gnosall and Market Drayton so don't know outside that range, other than Overwater where friends moor and is decent, and not too expensive. In the Market Drayton to Gnosall range, we took the one offside mooring we could find available.

 

Stafford, Rugeley and Tamworth are all on the same train line and all accessible for moving it.

 

It appears that 3rd October was the start of the winter mooring season so many private mooring sites are quite full. Nevertheless, we have found short-term moorings are available for our route at sensible locations. The only exception was last weekend to this, where we left it towpath-side. Not our preference, particularly as it was mooring on pins in the bank only, but a case of needs must for the week. Unfortunately it pulled the back pin due to the soft bank (2' pins were buried completely but still not enough) but someone kindly hammered it back in. Shardlow and Tixall appear to be places where it is reasonably safe to leave it for a week if needed.

 

Alec

 

 

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9 hours ago, northern said:

I wasn't aware he was a boat mover.  I'm new to the forum.  I was going to do a search to find somebody qualified/insured etc but will drop him a message.  Thanks.

If Matty can't help, you could try Nigel Carton who is also a forum member. He has moved a boat for me and I can recommend him.

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9 minutes ago, Athy said:

If Matty can't help, you could try Nigel Carton who is also a forum member. He has moved a boat for me and I can recommend him.

I have recommended Nigel and PaulJ, both of whom are known to me and know what they are doing. 

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5 hours ago, Naughty Cal said:

I'm not sure what you think I'm making up. We were in a very similar situation to yourself earlier in the year when we were buying our motorhome. We knew what make and model we wanted but none were available and those that came available sold before marketing. 

 

We were on all the dealer lists, joined all the forums and Farcebook groups and eventually got a lead to one that had literally been traded in a few minutes previous. We got straight onto the dealer and reserved it sight unseen. 

 

Had we not put the effort (and it was a lot of leg work and effort and phone calls and miles driven in vain) in we would still be in the same situation now rather than touring Scotland in our van, as hardly any used ones have come to the market this year and the price of new ones has gone up £10k. 

 

ETA: we were at the other side of the table earlier in the year when we had 3 offers on the table for our boat from 3 people who had never seen it. It went sight unseen, no survey and for over the asking price almost as soon as it went for sale. It was incredibly difficult to try to sort out the offers and pick the best one. In the end we chose the chap with the cash available and ready to buy. 

You need to re read your insulting post! You made up that I was somehow complaining about "life isn't fair" when my comment was very specific about the actions of one broker and then went on to suggest that I need to do some legwork and not sit on my backside when clearly you can have no knowledge of the amount of effort I have made in my search for a boat. If you cannot see your remarks were offensive then you need help.

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1 minute ago, BrandyMark said:

You need to re read your insulting post! You made up that I was somehow complaining about "life isn't fair" when my comment was very specific about the actions of one broker and then went on to suggest that I need to do some legwork and not sit on my backside when clearly you can have no knowledge of the amount of effort I have made in my search for a boat. If you cannot see your remarks were offensive then you need help.

 

My my what sensitive soul you appear to be.

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