Boat Prices and Current Market

[CanalRetentive]

58 minutes ago, system 4-50 said:

They may be overpriced but this is necessary due to the way the (or some) brokerage systems work.  My boat is with a brokerage (Venetian) now.  I have to set an asking price.  Lets assume I set a ridiculously low price, say £999, which many people would pay, some of which would be prepared to pay more.  The broker will accept the first offer at the asking price.  He has no mechanism to assess the demand.  He will not wait a week and assess the response and up the price to whittle down the would-be buyers.  He does however have a mechanism to handle offers below the asking price!  

This means that you must set an asking price at least as high as you might get if you were extremely lucky, if you are to have a chance of getting that lucky offer.  This is particularly difficult if you personally have no idea of what your boat is worth, and as I have a quirky boat, I have no idea of what mine is worth.  The broker is willing to give a valuation but they are much more interested in making a sale than getting the best price (imho).

It also means that a buyer needs to get in quick to stand a chance as he might be one of dozens all prepared to pay £888 but no more.  So one strategy for the buyer is to come in quickly with an offer at the asking price and then find grounds for forcing the price down.  I accepted an offer on my boat at the full asking price within 12 hours (approx) of it going on sale but it now seems likely that the would-be buyer does not have the financial resources to pay anywhere near this price.  My boat is flagged on the website as under offer but this is likely to revert to for sale shortly.  In the mean time other potential buyers are shut out.

 

Makes sense, thanks for the insight 👍

 

Not sure why someone would make an offer they can't afford though, I'd be extremely annoyed if someone did that to me.

[MtB]

13 minutes ago, CanalRetentive said:

 

Makes sense, thanks for the insight 👍

 

Not sure why someone would make an offer they can't afford though, I'd be extremely annoyed if someone did that to me.

 

Surely that is explained in the post you quoted. 

 

It is so other buyers get shut out while reasons to lever the price down are searched for. Usually by getting a survey and hoping for a longggggg list of defects to be revealed.

[Ex Brummie]

15 hours ago, agg221 said:

Yes it is an ice boat - Oates (formerly Esquimaux). Built for the BCN circa 1855 with a counter conversion in the 1970s I think by Andrew Milward.

 

It would be a poor choice to live on I think as it gives less accommodation space, but for relaxing/leisure it's fine. It depends what you enjoy I think. We enjoy boating. That means travelling a fair number of hours a day, at the speed that conditions sensibly allow, working locks as efficiently as possible.

 

 

 

 

I remember this from when it was moored at Wheaton Aston some years ago, and was owned by two men who looked like twins . It will certainly travel at a reasonable speed and create barely a ripple or move any moored craft.

Good luck with your project.

[TheBiscuits]

20 minutes ago, MtB said:

It is so other buyers get shut out while reasons to lever the price down are searched for. Usually by getting a survey and hoping for a longggggg list of defects to be revealed.

 

The brokerage I bought my current boat from got a signed contract and a 10% deposit from me before the survey lift.

 

If I couldn't afford to pay the balance they'd have kept the deposit, so it seems a risky gamble from a prospective buyer!

 

 

Edited September 30, 2021 by TheBiscuits
clarity

[MtB]

2 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

The brokerage I bought my current boat from got a signed contract and a 10% deposit from me before the survey lift.

 

If I couldn't afford to pay the balance they'd have kept the deposit, so it seems a risky gamble from a prospective buyer!

 

What reason do YOU think people have then, for offering more for a boat than they can afford? 

[Guest]

52 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

The brokerage I bought my current boat from got a signed contract and a 10% deposit from me before the survey lift.

 

If I couldn't afford to pay the balance they'd have kept the deposit, so it seems a risky gamble from a prospective buyer!

 

Ditto when we bought and sold our boat.

 

When we sold one 'buyer' did indeed lose his deposit after pulling out for various spurious reasons.

 

 

Edited September 30, 2021 by The Happy Nomad

[CanalRetentive]

4 minutes ago, The Happy Nomad said:

 

Ditto when we bought and sold our boat.

 

When we sold one 'buyer' did indeed lose his deposit after pulling out for various spurios reasons.

 

Might be a stupid question but who keeps the money in that instance, the broker?

[TheBiscuits]

5 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

What reason do YOU think people have then, for offering more for a boat than they can afford? 

 

I'm not saying you're wrong, just that it's a risky way of doing it.

 

It does depend on the sales contract with the broker of course. 

 

To add to what you suggested the purchaser might have spotted something wrong enough with the boat that they know a survey will pick it up and the final offer will be for a fraction of the asking price.

 

That could mean they get released from the contract and their deposit back but are out of pocket by survey and lift fees.

 

Conversely, some brokers would take a look at me and decide I couldn't afford to pay for a boat.  It doesn't mean they would necessarily be correct!

[Athy]

23 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

What reason do YOU think people have then, for offering more for a boat than they can afford? 

I suspect that, in some cases at least, the reason comes in a glass. Or several glasses.

[Guest]

33 minutes ago, CanalRetentive said:

 

Might be a stupid question but who keeps the money in that instance, the broker?

 

Not a stupid question at all.

 

In our case (Rugby Boats) the money was split between us and the broker. In a proportion set out in the contract I had with them. I can't recall the exact proportionate split but I do recall mine was greater than the broker's. Other brokers do the same I believe.

 

When our boat did sell at the second time of asking the money I was owed was added to what the broker paid me when the sale completed.

 

The initial buyers decision to pull out almost immediately after paying his deposit was an expensive mistake for him. Rugby Boats stood firm on their right to retain what he had paid despite the short timescale of something like 24/48 hours.

 

 

Edited September 30, 2021 by The Happy Nomad

[Adventurer]

On 30/09/2021 at 07:45, system 4-50 said:

They may be overpriced but this is necessary due to the way the (or some) brokerage systems work.  My boat is with a brokerage (Venetian) now.  I have to set an asking price.  Lets assume I set a ridiculously low price, say £999, which many people would pay, some of which would be prepared to pay more.  The broker will accept the first offer at the asking price.  He has no mechanism to assess the demand.  He will not wait a week and assess the response and up the price to whittle down the would-be buyers.  He does however have a mechanism to handle offers below the asking price!  

This means that you must set an asking price at least as high as you might get if you were extremely lucky, if you are to have a chance of getting that lucky offer.  This is particularly difficult if you personally have no idea of what your boat is worth, and as I have a quirky boat, I have no idea of what mine is worth.  The broker is willing to give a valuation but they are much more interested in making a sale than getting the best price (imho).

It also means that a buyer needs to get in quick to stand a chance as he might be one of dozens all prepared to pay £888 but no more.  So one strategy for the buyer is to come in quickly with an offer at the asking price and then find grounds for forcing the price down.  I accepted an offer on my boat at the full asking price within 12 hours (approx) of it going on sale but it now seems likely that the would-be buyer does not have the financial resources to pay anywhere near this price.  My boat is flagged on the website as under offer but this is likely to revert to for sale shortly.  In the mean time other potential buyers are shut out.

 The buyer has the funds in an interest bearing account offshore  transferable at the click of a button, so not sure where you're getting your information from ...must be that broker with an excellent reputation. The buyer has not received a refund as the buyer has not agreed to cancel the sale, it was a unilateral termination of sale by the broker, who based on your comment here assumed the funds were not available, for what reason I have no idea. The full offer was made in good faith & accepted.All sale agreements provide for the option to survey.  Given this quirky very unfinished, somewhat neglected project boat, that hasn't been out of the water for 7 years, a survey is common sense and not tactical to drive the price down without reason. Hope this clarifies. Unfortunately the way the broker and seller have treated the buyer is in very poor faith.

Edited October 2, 2021 by Adventurer
" and accepted"

[system 4-50]

On 30/09/2021 at 07:45, system 4-50 said:

They may be overpriced but this is necessary due to the way the (or some) brokerage systems work.  My boat is with a brokerage (Venetian) now.  I have to set an asking price.  Lets assume I set a ridiculously low price, say £999, which many people would pay, some of which would be prepared to pay more.  The broker will accept the first offer at the asking price.  He has no mechanism to assess the demand.  He will not wait a week and assess the response and up the price to whittle down the would-be buyers.  He does however have a mechanism to handle offers below the asking price!  

This means that you must set an asking price at least as high as you might get if you were extremely lucky, if you are to have a chance of getting that lucky offer.  This is particularly difficult if you personally have no idea of what your boat is worth, and as I have a quirky boat, I have no idea of what mine is worth.  

Unfortunately this seller did not know this when he started out on this journey...

[Cheshire cat]

With the current state of the market I'm suprised boats haven't gone the same way as houses. Stick it on the market for a week and collect expressions of interest. After a week invite interested parties to put in their best offer. 

 

We are selling a house and had eight offers over the asking price within 48 hours. I'm sure boats could follow that path in the current climate.

[dmr]

25 minutes ago, Cheshire cat said:

With the current state of the market I'm suprised boats haven't gone the same way as houses. Stick it on the market for a week and collect expressions of interest. After a week invite interested parties to put in their best offer. 

 

We are selling a house and had eight offers over the asking price within 48 hours. I'm sure boats could follow that path in the current climate.

 

and then come back again for a second round "we want to sell it to you but have a better offer, can you put in a higher bid?"  or do what some Bristol estate agents tried a while ago...making the buyer pay a fee in addition to the seller.

[MtB]

30 minutes ago, dmr said:

 

and then come back again for a second round "we want to sell it to you but have a better offer, can you put in a higher bid?"  or do what some Bristol estate agents tried a while ago...making the buyer pay a fee in addition to the seller.

 

This is slightly odd behaviour on the part of the EA. It always strikes me that it is in their interest to get a quick and certain sale at a slightly lower price, than to drag the process out, get a slightly higher offer and at the same time increase the risk of the sale falling through.

 

Same applies to boat brokers. If I were a broker I'd far rather get my 6% on 10 easily achieved sales at 90% of <market value>, than 6% of five 'fully priced' hard-fought sales.

 

 

 

 

[dmr]

1 minute ago, MtB said:

 

This is slightly odd behaviour on the part of the EA. It always strikes me that it is in their interest to get a quick and certain sale at a slightly lower price, than to drag the process out, get a slightly higher offer and at the same time increase the risk of the sale falling through.

 

Same applies to boat brokers. If I were a broker I'd far rather get my 6% on 10 easily achieved sales at 90% of <market value>, than 6% of five 'fully priced' hard-fought sales.

 

 

 

 

 

Ive always felt that estate agents are acting for themselves and a good turnover/cashflow is more important than top price, but when the market is really busy they can have both. To some extent they try to choose the buyer who is most likely to move quickly (cash buyer or mortgage outline approval) and then force them to match the best offer, its a win-win as they say.

 

This is probably what has happened here, they have more than one good offer and have chosen the one who they think will be the easiest and quickest sale.

[Adventurer]

Incidentally, buyer has  since  confirmed they would be partial to accepting the sellers offer of £1000 off the price without survey. I suspect the brokerage has not notified the seller of this, further confirming his interest ( not wanting to deal with buyer or buyer's proxy, having taken offense to being caught out for dubious business practice & the embarrassment of surveyor/s  being made aware of such. ) over the seller's best interest.

Edited October 2, 2021 by Adventurer
Amended: notified buyer to seller, caught out for dubious business practice , surveyors made aware.

[Machpoint005]

On 28/09/2021 at 20:14, Alan de Enfield said:

>>In the last 5 years ,my house has more than doubled in value, and since it was built in 2006 has more than trebled. in value.<<

 

My house would sell today for 1,500 times the original purchase price. It was built in 1912.

 

So what?

 

 

[Cheshire cat]

The housing market is in the situation where estate agents are running out of houses to sell at the lower end of the market. I would argue that there is also a finite number of boats for sale and therefore for the time being a least it would be in the brokers interest to maximse each sale price.

[Alan de Enfield]

4 hours ago, Machpoint005 said:

So what?

 

If you are unable to see the point its a waste of time trying to educate you.

[Richard10002]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

If you are unable to see the point its a waste of time trying to educate you.

 

I struggled to see a point either.... perhaps some education is warranted?

 

What was the point you were trying to make?

[MtB]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

If you are unable to see the point its a waste of time trying to educate you.

 

Translation:

 

"There isn't a point so I'm going to bluster my way out of it..."

 

😄

[Ray T]

Vlog 249: The Price is Right? – Cruising The Cut

[0000]

On 29/09/2021 at 15:45, BrandyMark said:

I feel rather let down by Rugby boats, I'm on their mailing list and when receiving information on a boat for sale, I always make sure I check it out on their website asp and every time the boat is already "under offer"! I did send an email to Rugby boats to ask why and pointed out there was not much point of the mailing list if the boats listed are already sold but never got a response. Its almost cruel i.e. we are telling you about this fantastic boat for sale but we already have a buyer so you can't have it!! I can only assume that there is some kind of VIP buyer list which gets the information before the rest of us. I sometime think I should forget about buying from Ruby boats but I must admit, I do like to see commodore Bumble checking out all the cupboards.

 

Just received an email from Rugby boat to tell me of a boat that had been "sold on arrival"!!, They do not seem to understand the reason people sign up to the mailing list is because they want to buy a boat! almost without exception all the boats they have emailed me about is not available for actual sale. Not sure what their motive is to continually to send out emails of sold boats to customers wanting to buy boats! never had this happen with ABC or ABNB mailings (maybe proves my suspicion mentioned above re. VIP buyers list). For me, all they have achieved is to alienate me as a potential customer for buying (or selling) a boat with them now or at anytime in the future.

[OldGoat]

11 minutes ago, BrandyMark said:

Just received an email from Rugby boat to tell me of a boat that had been "sold on arrival"!!, They do not seem to understand the reason people sign up to the mailing list is because they want to buy a boat! almost without exception all the boats they have emailed me about is not available for actual sale. Not sure what their motive is to continually to send out emails of sold boats to customers wanting to buy boats! never had this happen with ABC or ABNB mailings (maybe proves my suspicion mentioned above re. VIP buyers list). For me, all they have achieved is to alienate me as a potential customer for buying (or selling) a boat with them now or at anytime in the future.

Methinks you/we have to be realistic about and conpany's sales tactics.

Some pile the boats high and throw the keys at anyone passing.

Some make a bot more effort and describe the product in depth.

Some......

 

'One' has to realise that in a sellers market, that you - the buyer - has to be a bit more proactive to find a bargain or even good value.

 

I'm being shouted at from the catering section and must go now......