C&RT's most useless signs and money wasted

[MtB]

33 minutes ago, Machpoint005 said:

 

It's all about duty of care. I'd rather CRT managed to prevent a death (and avoided huge legal costs) and if that means posting signs, so be it.

 

Regarding the flat sign on a round post question, isn't it likely to be the cheapest option to have a whole bunch of standard signs rather than making them individually?

In other words, in this instance the signs are not useless and the money has been spent prudently (see thread title).

 

That is one helluva big "IF" in your first sentence. 

 

Using the same logic, why not erect signs every 25ft along both sides of every road in the UK saying "Warning, passing vehicles, do not step into road" ?

 

As I asked, how many deaths were occurring before the signs went up? "None" is the answer I suspect, so the signs are saving no lives, just cluttering up the bankside and wasting our money.

[Hudds Lad]

1 hour ago, IanD said:

At least those signs do serve some useful purpose -- preventing exceptionally stupid fishermen from killing themselves -- unlike the "You have walked xxx metres..." ones 😞

 

Taken on the HNC in 2017, after 29E heading uphill

 

Unfortunately most of the lads i encounter spinning are not native to the UK so may not understand the signage, don't think anyone died though.

 

 

[IanD]

25 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

That is one helluva big "IF" in your first sentence. 

 

Using the same logic, why not erect signs every 25ft along both sides of every road in the UK saying "Warning, passing vehicles, do not step into road" ?

 

As I asked, how many deaths were occurring before the signs went up? "None" is the answer I suspect, so the signs are saving no lives, just cluttering up the bankside and wasting our money.

 

There only seem to have been a couple of actual deaths from this in the UK that I can find and reference, maybe one every 10-15 years or so.

 

If somebody did die on a canal with no warning signs then I expect CART would be found liable and sued. Typical actuarial value for the value of a life is £2M according to the UK treasury. So being brutal and just looking at the money, if it costs CART less than £100k a year to put the signs up they're quids in. I expect the actual cost is far less than that, which is why they do it -- apart from the fact that if they deliberately *didn't* do it to save money and somebody died, they'd probably be fined far more than £2M by the HSE, and somebody would no doubt be blamed and sacked.

 

Not all warning signs are "'elf'n'safety gone mad"...

Edited October 1, 2021 by IanD

[Jerra]

25 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

That is one helluva big "IF" in your first sentence. 

 

Using the same logic, why not erect signs every 25ft along both sides of every road in the UK saying "Warning, passing vehicles, do not step into road" ?

 

As I asked, how many deaths were occurring before the signs went up? "None" is the answer I suspect, so the signs are saving no lives, just cluttering up the bankside and wasting our money.

I don't think it it is a case of how many deaths have their been more a case of "behind covering" should there be a death.

 

It also needs to be kept in mind that CRT has to try to be all things to all people and pushing their brand is part of that.   keeping dog walkers and pram pushers reminded that they are enjoying the walk because the CRT is maintaining the towpath.

[Rob-M]

1 hour ago, MtB said:

 

I do find myself wondering how many fisherman deaths were happening before the signs went up....

 

 

I hold that there were probably none and the point of the signs is to put up the CRT logo at any and every possible opportunity, for branding and marketing purposes. Nothing to do with safety.

The no fishing signs have been in use long before CRT though so not something new they have come up with, just updating the existing signs.

[MtB]

Just now, Rob-M said:

The no fishing signs have been in use long before CRT though so not something new they have come up with, just updating the existing signs.

 

Indeed, although I don't remember them being so prevalent when I was a child. 

 

CRT have seized on them as a way of getting their logo displayed, I doubt a new sign with CRT logo saves any more lives than an old black and white one. 

[Machpoint005]

2 minutes ago, MtB said:

>>CRT have seized on them as a way of getting their logo displayed, I doubt a new sign with CRT logo saves any more lives than an old black and white one. 

 

Nobody is saying it does. The point about duty of care remains, as IanD has explained at greater length than I did. 

[Jerra]

5 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

Indeed, although I don't remember them being so prevalent when I was a child. 

 

The question is were there as many overhead wires then?   Just a thought, everything else seems to have proliferated during my life time.

[Midnight]

2 hours ago, Jerra said:

The question is were there as many overhead wires then? 

 or more to the point carbon fibre fishing rods and long poles?

[ditchcrawler]

4 hours ago, MtB said:

 

I do find myself wondering how many fisherman deaths were happening before the signs went up....

 

 

I hold that there were probably none and the point of the signs is to put up the CRT logo at any and every possible opportunity, for branding and marketing purposes. Nothing to do with safety.

Fishermen have been electrocuted getting their carbon fibre poles up to close to Extra High Voltage cables but not heard of a case for many years now

 

A quick Google brought this up https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2112119/British-angler-dies-freak-accident-electrocuted-line-hits-overhead-power-cable.html Yes I know its the daily Mail

 

Or this one https://www.gentside.co.uk/viral/one-wrong-move-caused-this-fisherman-to-die-from-electrocution_art6037.html again not in the UK but maybe their signs are not in English 

Edited October 1, 2021 by ditchcrawler

[Nightwatch]

Spoke to a chap a couple of weeks ago at Braunston Marina entrance putting up a new sign onto the existing post. I said more signs? He replied ‘fraid so.

 

So, the chaps putting up more signs realise the general opinion regarding this. It pays the bills I suppose. (The sign putterupperperers I mean)

 

 

[Machpoint005]

2 minutes ago, Nightwatch said:

Spoke to a chap a couple of weeks ago at Braunston Marina entrance putting up a new sign onto the existing post. I said more signs? He replied ‘fraid so.

 

So, the chaps putting up more signs realise the general opinion regarding this. It pays the bills I suppose. (The sign putterupperperers I mean)

 

 

 

He probably knows about as much about CRT's legal liability as most of us. That is to say, none of us has the full picture.

 

[IanD]

12 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Fishermen have been electrocuted getting their carbon fibre poles up to close to Extra High Voltage cables but not heard of a case for many years now

 

A quick Google brought this up https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2112119/British-angler-dies-freak-accident-electrocuted-line-hits-overhead-power-cable.html Yes I know its the daily Mail

And the only other case I could find in the UK was one in the 1990s, so maybe 15 year intervals -- but there just aren't enough to get a better figure.

 

(shame, I hear the angler-haters calling...)

[Jerra]

5 minutes ago, IanD said:

And the only other case I could find in the UK was one in the 1990s, so maybe 15 year intervals -- but there just aren't enough to get a better figure.

 

(shame, I hear the angler-haters calling...)

Were the signs in use in the 1990s?

[ditchcrawler]

1 hour ago, IanD said:

And the only other case I could find in the UK was one in the 1990s, so maybe 15 year intervals -- but there just aren't enough to get a better figure.

 

(shame, I hear the angler-haters calling...)

Just found this so it is considered a problem

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/304791856_CASES_OF_DEATH_DUE_TO_ELECTROCUTION_OF_FISHERMEN_USING_CARBON_FISHING_RODS_-_MORPHOLOGICAL_ASPECTS

[Alan de Enfield]

21 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

304791856_CASES_OF_DEATH_DUE_TO_ELECTROCUTION_OF_FISHERMEN_USING_CARBON_FISHING_RODS_-

 

304 million - Thats a lot of deaths ...............

[matty40s]

5 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

304 million - Thats a lot of deaths ...............

They are being counted by CRT towpath visit methods....

[IanD]

41 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Just found this so it is considered a problem

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/304791856_CASES_OF_DEATH_DUE_TO_ELECTROCUTION_OF_FISHERMEN_USING_CARBON_FISHING_RODS_-_MORPHOLOGICAL_ASPECTS

 

I found that too -- the problem is that though it describes in great detail how and why they die, nowhere does it say what the actual death rate is and which countries the deaths are in, and I haven't been able to find this data either for the UK or anywhere else -- and all I can find in the UK press is 2 deaths in the last 30 years...

[MtB]

2 minutes ago, IanD said:

-- and all I can find in the UK press is 2 deaths in the last 30 years...

 

 

Mind you that is with the signs. 

 

There may have been thousands of deaths before they put any up....

[IanD]

6 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

Mind you that is with the signs. 

 

There may have been thousands of deaths before they put any up....

Don't think they had twenty-foot carbon fibre poles in those days though...

[Jerra]

15 minutes ago, IanD said:

Don't think they had twenty-foot carbon fibre poles in those days though...

Does the fishing line not carry electricity particularly if wet?

[MtB]

32 minutes ago, IanD said:

Don't think they had twenty-foot carbon fibre poles in those days though...

 

Oh that raises anothe possibility. The 20ft carbon fibre rods are MUCH safer than the manky old built-cane rods of yester-decade...

[TheBiscuits]

19 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

Oh that raises anothe possibility. The 20ft carbon fibre rods are MUCH safer than the manky old built-cane rods of yester-decade...

 

I think you mean conductIive.  Progress, innit!

 

The 20 foot ones are OK, the recommended exclusion zone is 30 metres.  Still go off like sparklers if they hit a high tension line though ...

 

 

 

[tree monkey]

14 hours ago, Jerra said:

Does the fishing line not carry electricity particularly if wet?

I imagine the line would melt fairly quickly, out of interest the wooden poles are a regular source of small shocks

 

To add it was fairly quickly realised that the steel reinforced concrete posts were a bad move

Edited October 2, 2021 by tree monkey

[system 4-50]

Changing the logo on the warning signs was necessary as the fish were evolving to recognise the old signs and know where they were safe.   The signs will have to be changed again every few years.