Canal line 52

[Karl darling]

Hi, can anyone tell me if there is such a thing as a canal line 52 workshop manual or help with this problem. I have a canal line 52, 2018 with 440 hours fitted in a widebeam. The problem is the oil level increases when the engine is running, approximately half a litre over 2 hours of about 3/4 throttle. I am pretty sure diesel must be getting into the oil some how (although there is no smell) and obviously this will thin the oil and potentially ruin the engine. There is no coolent or water ingress and no sign of emulsification in the oil. I have been in touch with canal line engines and they were not much help. I have had this problem since the engine was new, but being new to canal boating and canal engines I didn't pick up on it untill the warranty had run out, which canal line were only too quick to point out. 

The engine otherwise works as it should, starts easily with no smoke, runs smoothly and oil pressure is around 50 psi cold dropping to 25 to 30 warm, when the oil is thinned the pressure drops to 10psi and the warning light comes on. Hope someone can help or point me in the right direction as I can't find any info on these engines.

Regards

Karl 

[Tracy D'arth]

AFAIK the only places that fuel can get into the sump are a mechanical lift pump with a ruptured diaphragm  or  the injection pump drive spindle seal leaking.

  I am pretty certain that there are no fuel lines inside a Canal Line engine that could leak.

Edited September 24, 2021 by Tracy D'arth

[Karl darling]

Thank you Tracy I will look into that 

[cuthound]

4 hours ago, Karl darling said:

Hi, can anyone tell me if there is such a thing as a canal line 52 workshop manual or help with this problem. I have a canal line 52, 2018 with 440 hours fitted in a widebeam. The problem is the oil level increases when the engine is running, approximately half a litre over 2 hours of about 3/4 throttle. I am pretty sure diesel must be getting into the oil some how (although there is no smell) and obviously this will thin the oil and potentially ruin the engine. There is no coolent or water ingress and no sign of emulsification in the oil. I have been in touch with canal line engines and they were not much help. I have had this problem since the engine was new, but being new to canal boating and canal engines I didn't pick up on it untill the warranty had run out, which canal line were only too quick to point out. 

The engine otherwise works as it should, starts easily with no smoke, runs smoothly and oil pressure is around 50 psi cold dropping to 25 to 30 warm, when the oil is thinned the pressure drops to 10psi and the warning light comes on. Hope someone can help or point me in the right direction as I can't find any info on these engines.

Regards

Karl 

 

Hopefully you are measuring the oil level after the engine has been stopped for at least 10 minutes, to allow the oil held in the galleries to drain back into the sump?

 

Apologies if I am teaching you to suck eggs, but it is important to establish the level of knowledge before rushing into diagnosis.

[Tracy D'arth]

25 minutes ago, cuthound said:

 

Hopefully you are measuring the oil level after the engine has been stopped for at least 10 minutes, to allow the oil held in the galleries to drain back into the sump?

 

Apologies if I am teaching you to suck eggs, but it is important to establish the level of knowledge before rushing into diagnosis.

Heel on the boat will make a difference too.

Just now, Tracy D'arth said:

Heel on the boat will make a difference too.

You should always check the oil level whilst on level ground  it said in my Austin 7 handbook, so find a bit of level water.......................................................

[Karl darling]

29 minutes ago, cuthound said:

 

Hopefully you are measuring the oil level after the engine has been stopped for at least 10 minutes, to allow the oil held in the galleries to drain back into the sump?

 

Apologies if I am teaching you to suck eggs, but it is important to establish the level of knowledge before rushing into diagnosis.

Kind of teaching me to suck eggs yes, I'm familiar with engines, servicing, maintenance ect ect sorry should have made that clear from the start, just not familiar with diesel engines particularly canal line 52 which I can't seem to get any information on online, it's like a closed shop.  But quite right to point these things out cuthound, we all have different levels of ability and it might help other people reading this topic

Thank you 

29 minutes ago, cuthound said:

 

Hopefully you are measuring the oil level after the engine has been stopped for at least 10 minutes, to allow the oil held in the galleries to drain back into the sump?

 

Apologies if I am teaching you to suck eggs, but it is important to establish the level of knowledge before rushing into diagnosis.

Kind of teaching me to suck eggs yes, I'm familiar with engines, servicing, maintenance ect ect sorry should have made that clear from the start, just not familiar with diesel engines particularly canal line 52 which I can't seem to get any information on online, it's like a closed shop.  But quite right to point these things out cuthound, we all have different levels of ability and it might help other people reading this topic

Thank you 

[PeterF]

http://www.canaline-engines.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Canaline-Operators-Handbook-CE-Version-3870T.pdf

 

http://www.canaline-engines.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/Canaline-Manual-040916.pdf

 

I doubt the above are what you are after but put them up just in case.

 

Can anybody point out what the base engine is and see if you can find a manual.on line for the base engine. Years ago knowing I had a Barrus Shire I found the Yanmar base engine manual as that was much more comprehensive than the Barrus info.

Edited September 24, 2021 by PeterF

[Alan de Enfield]

 

I believe that Canaline, over the years, have gone thru a variety of base engines but have been using the Kioti diesel engine which is manufactured by the Daedong Industrial Co Ltd.  as their base enine for quite a few years now.

 

It is not one of the well known 'small industrial engines' like Yanmar or Kubota, but maybe is is used as the price is competitive,

 

This link may help you follow the trail :

 

Kioti Industrial Diesel Engines – Engines Plus

 

It could be this one (52hp = 38kw) but these are Turbo.

 

Engine-specification3H183T-StageV.pdf (enginesplus.co.uk)

 

Or, this one - 4-cylinder non turbo

Kioti-Engines-4B-Series.pdf (enginesplus.co.uk)

 

Keep digging and you may find your Canaline 52

Edited September 24, 2021 by Alan de Enfield

[Karl darling]

46 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

I believe that Canaline, over the years, have gone thru a variety of base engines but have been using the Kioti diesel engine which is manufactured by the Daedong Industrial Co Ltd.  as their base enine for quite a few years now.

 

It is not one of the well known 'small industrial engines' like Yanmar or Kubota, but maybe is is used as the price is competitive,

 

This link may help you follow the trail :

 

Kioti Industrial Diesel Engines – Engines Plus

 

It could be this one (52hp = 38kw) but these are Turbo.

 

Engine-specification3H183T-StageV.pdf (enginesplus.co.uk)

 

Or, this one - 4-cylinder non turbo

Kioti-Engines-4B-Series.pdf (enginesplus.co.uk)

 

Keep digging and you may find your Canaline 52

Excellent advice,  thank you, I don't know why I didn't think of it before. It is as you said a kioti. The specs don't match any in the links you put up but I will keep digging and see if I can find out. Maybe that power output is specifically made for canal line 🤷🏼‍♂️ it is  naturally aspirated.

Thank you  

1 hour ago, PeterF said:

http://www.canaline-engines.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Canaline-Operators-Handbook-CE-Version-3870T.pdf

 

http://www.canaline-engines.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/Canaline-Manual-040916.pdf

 

I doubt the above are what you are after but put them up just in case.

 

Can anybody point out what the base engine is and see if you can find a manual.on line for the base engine. Years ago knowing I had a Barrus Shire I found the Yanmar base engine manual as that was much more comprehensive than the Barrus info.

The base engine is a kioti, thank you Peter, I'll keep looking see what I can dig up on them  

[Karl darling]

Update on the diesel in oil problem. I removed the lift pump from the engine block, keeping the fuel lines attached i repeatedly pressed the plunger in on the back of the pump and guess what ......... diesel poured out from around the plunger! So there's the problem! Unfortunately you can't buy a diaphragm you have to buy the full pump, £75 plus postage from the dealer, fortunately these engines are used in tractors and generators and on lots of different size kioti and Kubota engines. I think it must be there standard lift pump, anywho I managed to pick one up on amazon for £45 delivered on 8th oct, result! 

Thanks to all of your advice that lead me to the diagnosis, it's much appreciated. 👍

On 24/09/2021 at 09:50, Tracy D'arth said:

AFAIK the only places that fuel can get into the sump are a mechanical lift pump with a ruptured diaphragm  or  the injection pump drive spindle seal leaking.

  I am pretty certain that there are no fuel lines inside a Canal Line engine that could leak.

Spot on advice Tracy thank you 👍 

[Alan de Enfield]

2 minutes ago, Karl darling said:

Thanks to all of your advice that lead me to the diagnosis, it's much appreciated.

 

GOOD NEWS And good of you to 'come back'.

Lets us know if the new pump does actually solve the problem, or if it just means you now have a spare pump in the JIC cupboard.

[Karl darling]

Just now, Alan de Enfield said:

 

GOOD NEWS And good of you to 'come back'.

Lets us know if the new pump does actually solve the problem, or if it just means you now have a spare pump in the JIC cupboard.

Lol yeah well that's normally how my repair attempts go, but I'm pretty confident this time. Will definitely post and let you know . 

[Ex Brummie]

I've seen automotive 12v fuel pumps bypassing a diaphragm pump. This also has the advantage of making bleeding new filters easier.

[Karl darling]

12 hours ago, Ex Brummie said:

I've seen automotive 12v fuel pumps bypassing a diaphragm pump. This also has the advantage of making bleeding new filters easier.

It did cross my mind to do that ex brummie dependant on the price of the lift pump but for £45 I'd rather keep things standard