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Tunnel Lights


Col_T

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Went through Blisworth Tunnel yesterday, and only realised there was a, much slower, boat in front when we nearly rammed him whilst crossing with a boat coming in the opposite direction. His boat had no rearward facing light, and neither does ours.

 

So, should boats have rear facing tunnel lights and, if so, what colour - red or white?

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We have a white light on the back, but honestly never use it in tunnels as it kills your night vision having a light source so close.

 

You could always try one of these cheapy bike lights on your swans neck/rams head facing backwards? only a couple of quid.

image.png.10550f44f836870f9861d22753c878b9.png

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11 minutes ago, Col_T said:

Thanks for the input, folks.

 

Maybe I'll try a headlamp, worn back to front, at the next tunnel. We're bound to come to one eventually!


Obviously going north there’s Braunston - or Crick - but that got me thinking about south of Blisworth.

 

Am I right in thinking that on the Grand Circle, Braunston is the next tunnel in both directions?

Edited by Captain Pegg
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Aren't narrow boat required to have standard navigation lights? Red and green facing forward and a 360 degree white light?

A white light shinning in your face ruins you night vision but you can split those with one white that faces forward and a rear facing light on the transom.

Edited by Kudzucraft
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4 hours ago, Hudds Lad said:

We have a white light on the back, but honestly never use it in tunnels as it kills your night vision having a light source so close.

 

You could always try one of these cheapy bike lights on your swans neck/rams head facing backwards? only a couple of quid.

image.png.10550f44f836870f9861d22753c878b9.png

No,no,no,no. They are horrible flashing LEDs which can distroy your night vision even when driving. God knows their effect in a tunnel.

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45 minutes ago, Kudzucraft said:

Aren't narrow boat required to have standard navigation lights?

Only required on selected waterways. I won't go in to how most narrowboats with nav lights don't have them fitted correctly my boat included.

I did come across a boat with nav lights on in a tunnel travelling in the same direction. Without knowing that the nav lights were on it was impossible to tell if it was coming or going. The rear white light could have easily been a dim tunnel light heading towards me, with no nav lights lit as normal practice. The fact that it wasn't getting any closer as we progressed led me to conclude it was travelling in the same direction. The only way a white rear light would work would be if all boats had nav lights and had to use them in tunnels, so you could tell from the red/green as well as the tunnel light that one was travelling towards you. Chances of that being mandated are zero.

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The "navigation" lights on Ciel were never thought through and consist of the bare red and green cabin sidelights. Absolutely useless when our home mooring is three quarters of the way up the River Great Ouse! No rear facing white light, no mast head riding light and no mast head running light. Scholar Gypsy of this parish can no doubt quote the regs.

Back to the topic, with no rear facing light, in tunnels we run with most of the cabin lights on as it seems to make it easier to keep a straight course.  Plus illuminating sides of tunnel makes us obvious to any following boat.

Chris

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As far as I am aware there is no legal requirement for either navigation lights or rear facing lights on C&RT canals, although C&RT do suggest some sort of light on the back end (but not a single bright spot) We never had any lights, relying on leaving the back cabin doors open with the cabin lights turned on, that with white and red tunnel bands, the boat should be eaily visible before any following boat risked hitting us, Assuming they could catch us up!!

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1 hour ago, Slim said:

No,no,no,no. They are horrible flashing LEDs which can distroy your night vision even when driving. God knows their effect in a tunnel.

Actually they can be solid on, or flashing. They are small and not that bright, more of a running light than a beam. Also if physically behind you not a problem for night vision, well not yours anyway.

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I am surprised about the feeling that a light is needed to be aware that there is a boat ahead of you. Maybe I am not thinking this through but I always seem to tell from the change in the profile of the the other end - if you can see it, of course. I also thought that the point of tunnel bands was just for this purpose. Given the way in which engine noise is projected backwards I am surprised that anyone can be unaware that there is a boat ahead in the tunnel, even with my dodgy hearing. If you want to ride up the rear end of the boat then perhaps send a lookout to the bow but in my view it is much better to hold back, not least if thei r engine is at all fuming. But perhaps my view is why we need sceptical H&S gurus!

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22 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Electric boats should be banned in tunnels because you can't hear them in front of you.

Boats with old thump thump diesel engines you can hear, but can't see as they are shrouded in a travelling cloud of clag. When boats are being legged, you can only hear the heavy breathing and effing and blinding of the leggers.

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4 hours ago, David Schweizer said:

As far as I am aware there is no legal requirement for either navigation lights or rear facing lights on C&RT canals, although C&RT do suggest some sort of light on the back end (but not a single bright spot) We never had any lights, relying on leaving the back cabin doors open with the cabin lights turned on, that with white and red tunnel bands, the boat should be eaily visible before any following boat risked hitting us, Assuming they could catch us up!!

 

 

Pretty much as you suggest :-

 

10. (1) Subject as hereinafter provided, a power-driven vessel (other than a narrow canal boat) when under way at night shall carry –

(a) On or in front of the foremast, or if a vessel without a foremast then in the forepart of the vessel, and in either case at a height above the hull of not less than four feet, a visible white light so constructed as to show an unbroken light over an arc of the horizon of twenty points on the compass (225°) so fixed as to show the light ten points (112½°) on each side of the vessel that is, from right ahead to two points (22½°) abaft the beam on either side; and

(b) in addition to the above light, at her stern a visible white light so constructed as to show an unbroken light over an arc of the horizon of twelve points of the compass (135°) so fixed as to show the light six points (67½°) from right astern on each side of the vessel.

 

(2) A power-driven vessel, being a narrow canal boat, under way at night shall display in the forepart of the vessel, where it can best be seen and at a height above the deck or gunwhale or not less than one foot, a visible white light.

 

FULL Navigation lights are required by all powered craft (Including NBs) as follows :

 

(5) On the Trent Navigation, the Weaver Navigation, the Aire and Calder Navigation, the New Junction Canal and the Sheffield and South Yorkshire Navigation (below Doncaster) a power-driven vessel shall in addition to the lights prescribed in paragraphs (1), (2), (3) and (4) as the case may be of this Bye-law display:-

(a) On the starboard side a visible green light so constructed as to show an unbroken light over an arc of the horizon of ten points of the compass (112½°) so fixed as to show the light from right ahead to two points (22½°) abaft the beam on the starboard side.

(b) On the port side a visible red light so constructed as to show an unbroken light over an arc of the horizon of ten points of the compass (112½°) so fixed as to show the light from right ahead to two points (22½°) abaft the beam on the port side.

 

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We find having the cabin lights on in tunnels on works both for me and for following boats.  As for navigation lights we’ve never had them, and in the 9 years we’ve had the boat we’ve done the Ribble Link, Mersey, Thames Tideway, tidal Trent, Yorks Ouse, Severn, and the MSC etc.

 

We’ve never been challenged by any of the river authorities and on many occasions when I’ve asked the question they’ve all said they are only required when travelling in the dark or in poor weather visibility.

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18 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

Pretty much as you suggest :-

 

10. (1) Subject as hereinafter provided, a power-driven vessel (other than a narrow canal boat) when under way at night shall carry –

(a) On or in front of the foremast,..................

 

 

Now that I think about it, it makes sense that canals are not covered under standard navigation rules. Obviously on a narrow canal the boat is head on towards  you. 

I am just used to being a big navigable river where standard lights are required. Once you get used to it it is quite easy to see another boat and know direction is headed. But many don't use them and we have at least one accident where someone is hurt every year.

Edited by Kudzucraft
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I've always been sceptical about this "tunnel bands" theory.  If you are following another narrowboat in a tunnel you don't pick out the white bands on the stern of a boat in front as your headlight is pointing slightly above horizontal and the bands are too low.  In any case the old working boats wouldn't have had a powerful tunnel light would they?

 

So I'm not sure (is anyone) where the practice of painting red and white bands on the stern of narrowboats comes from.  

 

IIRC the old British Waterways boats had yellow and blue bands, so I think it's origins are in fleet identification.

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On 24/09/2021 at 14:35, Neil2 said:

I've always been sceptical about this "tunnel bands" theory.  If you are following another narrowboat in a tunnel you don't pick out the white bands on the stern of a boat in front as your headlight is pointing slightly above horizontal and the bands are too low.  In any case the old working boats wouldn't have had a powerful tunnel light would they?

 

So I'm not sure (is anyone) where the practice of painting red and white bands on the stern of narrowboats comes from.  

 

IIRC the old British Waterways boats had yellow and blue bands, so I think it's origins are in fleet identification.

 

On 24/09/2021 at 14:43, Ray T said:

Obvious really but a horse boat or a butty being towed by a motor never had them, counter bands that is.

 

One example of a BW liveried boat with yellow & red counter bands.

PURTONandCAPELLAatCowroastc1960.jpg

 

 

 

I suspect the notion of 'tunnel' bands is likely modern terminology but the practice of using both light colours for visibility and contrasting lighter and darker colours to distinguish form in poor lighting conditions is well established in the decoration of both canal boats and infrastructure. Therefore I would have little doubt that the painting of the rear of the counter with different coloured bands is about visibility.

 

Horse boats and later butty boats had large amounts of painted woodwork at their helms which demonstrated the above principles. The application of counter bands to motors is possibly compensation for losing this paintwork. Irrespective of the intricacy often displayed the root of boat decoration lies in practical requirements. Latterly BWB painted the bands to match fleet livery but it still adhered to the principles of a lighter and darker colour. I doubt anyone who really needed to identify a boat's ownership would use the counter bands for the purpose. There is so much else that is more definitive.

 

I think it's often difficult for modern boaters to fully appreciate the conditions in which carrying craft operated in past times.

 

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On 23/09/2021 at 19:48, Alan de Enfield said:

(a) On the starboard side a visible green light so constructed as to show an unbroken light over an arc of the horizon of ten points of the compass (112½°) so fixed as to show the light from right ahead to two points (22½°) abaft the beam on the starboard side.

(b) On the port side a visible red light so constructed as to show an unbroken light over an arc of the horizon of ten points of the compass (112½°) so fixed as to show the light from right ahead to two points (22½°) abaft the beam on the port side.

 

 

Which to most people is pretty much gobbledygook

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