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Licence fees for CRT non-network waterways


magpie patrick

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Just thoughts both professional and personal.... I've had a quick websearch and can't find anything so here goes 

 

There are a few CRT waterways not connected to the main network - Brecon and Abergavenny, Bridgwater and Taunton canal, I believe that the national cruising licence is valid on these waterways and that if a boat is based on them and solely used on them then some discount applies, but I can't find anything to confirm this. 

What's the situation on other CRT waterways, e.g the River Tees? Is that nationalal licence valid? Is the local licence linked to the national rate? Are there any other such waterways? 

 

What would be the situation if one managed to launch one boats on a real out of the way spot, e.g. the Swansea Canal at Pontardawe or Clydach, where navigation is only available by default (because it isn't actually blocked) 

 

On the latter I'm not likely to use anything other than a canoe as there is no slipway, and I have BCU membership (assuming it covers CRT Wales?) but as Juno is trailable I think about these things....

Anyone have any answers, or even any thoughts? 

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15 minutes ago, matty40s said:

The rivers only licence comes at a discount, presumably the Tees would be covered by this.

It is used by some (Rivers Lee and Stort), to ensure a very short cruising range whilst abiding by the 14 day rule and staying in commutable distance to the Old Smoke.

 

rivers.jpg

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Disconnected Waterways

 

25% discount if the Boat has a long term mooring, and will remain exclusively on one of the following Waterways: Bridgwater & Taunton, Monmouth & Brecon, stretches of the Montgomery Canal not connected to the main network, River Tees.

 

 

So a full licence allows you to go on any of these, but if you've claimed the discount you aren't allowed to go on any other CRT waters without paying more.

5 hours ago, AndrewIC said:

There certainly used to be a discount for boats based on the Lancaster Canal. I think it was done away with when the Ribble Link opened.

 

Yes, it was a disconnected waterway until the Ribble Link opened and now it isn't.  They are still moaning about it up there! :D

 

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6 minutes ago, MtB said:

Another disconnected waterway is I believe, the Cromford canal. Has some five miles in water at the moment, and is actively being restored. No mention on its wiki page about licencing.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cromford_Canal

 

Wiki states Derbyshire County Council as the navigation authority, so it's not one of CRT's disconnected waterways as per the original question.

 

Isn't the dry dock at Langley Mill technically on the Cromford?

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Thanks for the responses - it was largely out of curiosity and like @PD1964 I will pay my money and take my choice, I wouldn't go on a waterway unlicenced. However in professional dealings I have some frustration at C&RT who clearly regard any water body they own as "part of the network", possibly including the puddles in the car park. It's intriguing to note that the list for 25% discount doesn't include the Swansea Canal. Are there any other isolated canals that C&RT own and are in water? By isolated I mean can't be reached from the main network rather than only connected by non CRT waters. How would local users get a licence? Paying 75% of the national licence to have an 18 foot Shetland at the end of your garden in Clydach, where there is a mile of canal available seems a bit steep and would act as a barrier to local boating (and how would they calculate the EOG fee!) 

I know, I'm pushing this it's logical but ridiculous conclusion - but that's alsowhat C&RT do... 

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18 minutes ago, BEngo said:

The 25% discount only applies to boats with a permanent mooring on the disconnected waterway. Are there any official permanent moorings on the Swansea Canal?

 

N

 

 

Nothing to stop someone asking for an EOG, and your scenario is where this pondering started!

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18 hours ago, TheBiscuits said:

Disconnected Waterways

 

25% discount if the Boat has a long term mooring, and will remain exclusively on one of the following Waterways: Bridgwater & Taunton, Monmouth & Brecon, stretches of the Montgomery Canal not connected to the main network, River Tees.

 

That seems a bit pointless as the River Tees is also available under River Registration, and one gets a 40% discount for that! 

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7 minutes ago, magpie patrick said:

 

That seems a bit pointless as the River Tees is also available under River Registration, and one gets a 40% discount for that! 

 

You can use both discounts if you keep your boat exclusively on the Tees.

 

So you'd pay 60% of a full licence for rivers only then get a quarter off that for disconnected waterways, bringing you down to 45% of full licence price.

 

If it's a pure electric boat you'd get another quarter off that, and a further 10% if it's a converted historic ...

 

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35 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

You can use both discounts if you keep your boat exclusively on the Tees.

 

So you'd pay 60% of a full licence for rivers only then get a quarter off that for disconnected waterways, bringing you down to 45% of full licence price.

 

If it's a pure electric boat you'd get another quarter off that, and a further 10% if it's a converted historic ...

 

There was a time when one of the available discounts was a fixed sum in ££. And some enterprising chap worked out that if you had something like a short, historic, electrically powered boat on the isolated part of the Montgomery, and you applied all the percentage discounts first, then subtracted the fixed discount, BW (as it was at the time) would actually pay you to put the boat on the water!

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The 25% discount for boats on disconnected waterways makes a mockery of the size based licensing system.

On the one hand a discount is given due to not being able to access the main network, on the other hand a boat that is unable to access a vast chunk of the main network due to it's size is charged more. We are also told that the fee is charged merely for keeping the boat on the water and doesn't guarantee the ability to travel.

 

Keith

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36 minutes ago, Steilsteven said:

The 25% discount for boats on disconnected waterways makes a mockery of the size based licensing system.

On the one hand a discount is given due to not being able to access the main network, on the other hand a boat that is unable to access a vast chunk of the main network due to it's size is charged more. We are also told that the fee is charged merely for keeping the boat on the water and doesn't guarantee the ability to travel.

 

Keith

 

I think it was originally a discount for being limited to remainder waterways

 

You've a bee in your bonnet about this and, to mix my metaphors, you often get a flea in your ear. Why should an 18 foot shetland on the Montgomery pay the same as a leviathan on the Kennet and Avon?  Other than the fact that you own the latter? 

 

My contention would be that isolated waterways should have local arrangements not a fairly hefty percantage of the national network fee

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On 22/09/2021 at 11:48, magpie patrick said:

Just thoughts both professional and personal.... I've had a quick websearch and can't find anything so here goes 

What would be the situation if one managed to launch one boats on a real out of the way spot, e.g. the Swansea Canal at Pontardawe or Clydach, where navigation is only available by default (because it isn't actually blocked) 

 

On the latter I'm not likely to use anything other than a canoe as there is no slipway, and I have BCU membership (assuming it covers CRT Wales?) but as Juno is trailable I think about these things....

Anyone have any answers, or even any thoughts? 

 

River Parrett at Langport newly refurbished car park and slipway AND no licence required.  Give it a go and you might just come across DUCHESS OF COCKLEMOOR a slar powered wooden boat built 1908 as the Teignmouth to Shaldon ferry

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1 minute ago, MPR said:

 

River Parrett at Langport newly refurbished car park and slipway AND no licence required.  Give it a go and you might just come across DUCHESS OF COCKLEMOOR a slar powered wooden boat built 1908 as the Teignmouth to Shaldon ferry

Ooooooooo! 

Now that does sound like a good plan! :captain:

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21 hours ago, magpie patrick said:

 

I think it was originally a discount for being limited to remainder waterways

 

You've a bee in your bonnet about this and, to mix my metaphors, you often get a flea in your ear. Why should an 18 foot shetland on the Montgomery pay the same as a leviathan on the Kennet and Avon?  Other than the fact that you own the latter? 

 

My contention would be that isolated waterways should have local arrangements not a fairly hefty percantage of the national network fee

The licence allows a person to place a vessel on the water, the person pays a fee for this privilege, the fee isn't rent for space it is merely permission for the person to place a vessel on the water and is to provide funds for the navigation authority. In the, admittedly  unlikely, event that every boat measured 18 feet in length then every boat owner would pay the same amount and everyone would say that was fair. If someone decided to have their 18 foot boat stretched to 19 feet would it be fair to charge them more and if so why? Location is irrelevant as I have already pointed out.

 

If an obese person joins a golf club should their membership fee be greater than an under weight person? 

 

You're mistaken if you think I ever go away ''with a flea in my ear'' over this subject btw.

 

Keith

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36 minutes ago, Steilsteven said:

If an obese person joins a golf club should their membership fee be greater than an under weight person? 

 

If an obese person books an airline ticket (seat) and, it is then found that the seat alongside cannot be used due to 'over-hang / spread' is it right that the obese person should pay for two seats ?

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5 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

If an obese person books an airline ticket (seat) and, it is then found that the seat alongside cannot be used due to 'over-hang / spread' is it right that the obese person should pay for two seats ?

Yes.

 

There's an argument for plane tickets to be sold by weight, like loose apples. 

 

Gatwick to Paris - £5 per stone etc...

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