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Potential new owner looking for advice


Triumph-Rat

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17 minutes ago, Triumph-Rat said:

Whut?  Have I missed something or are boat electrics completely different?

Yes.  Auto electricians know nothing about volt drop, big battery banks, solar power, 12v fridges, inverters, pumps or heaven forbid galvanic corrosion.

 

I don't think anyone here is trying to put you off at all.

The problem is that the publicity in the media in recent years has led to a huge number of boater wannabees buying boats and finding out that its not the idyll that they were led to believe.

 

Ask any marina how many boats they have i that never move, that are never visited after the first few months, that come up for sale again in very a short time and who's owners vow  "never again".

Edited by Tracy D'arth
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18 minutes ago, Triumph-Rat said:

Whut?  Have I missed something or are boat electrics completely different?

 

He does domestic as well so not a problem.

 

Yes boat electrics are completely different from cars. About the only thing in common is the voltage in most boats and in most cars is 12Vdc. 

 

Also, not many cars have inverters and 230Vac mains installations, or shorelines.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Do not let a 'domestic' electrician anywhere near a boat - the regulations and materials allowed are totally different.

Also,be careful of car mechanics too.

I have messed about with engines since I was at school,and had motorbike engines,car engines and light aircraft engines in bits for repair since.

The principles are the same,in that pistons go up and down,fuel goes in one end and smoke out the other,however as I found, marine installations are rather different.Particularly the cooling systems,and the electrical systems.If you don't really know what you are looking at,expensive mistakes can be made.

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Can I throw a different question in to the mix - how practical are you?

 

If you are the kind of person who enjoys DIY, when the dishwasher throws a fault code you get out the manual and see if you can fix it, you can read a wiring diagram and have taken bits off your car and fixed them because it isn't worth the bother of getting someone else to do it then learning how to deal with a boat is a different set of skills but it's a matter of taking your time to do it. It's not just the maintenance but all the basic day to day things which are generally easier if you are fairly practical.

 

If however you are the kind of person who calls out the handyman to put up a shelf, takes the dishwasher to the tip and buys a new one as soon as a light starts flashing and gets Halfords to change your lightbulbs (OK, there are some modern cars where I would pay them to do it anyway!) then it will be rather a baptism of fire.

 

If you are very practical, one option would be to buy something with a sound hull (get a survey) but more of a project interior. It will cost less so you have less to lose if it doesn't work out, and more left in the bank. It will end up how you want it and, if you do a decent job, you may actually end up with it worth more than when you bought it, or at least not less, disregarding the time.

 

The Apolloduck website sorted by price is quite a useful way to see what you get for your money.

 

Alec

 

 

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1 hour ago, Triumph-Rat said:

Blimey, for a canal boat forum you lot aren't half keen on putting people off 😝

 

I have a couple of people who can come to look at prospective purchases.  One is an auto electrician (assume fault finding would be the same) and the other a mechanic who grew up on boats as a member of a family of 'water gypsies' (his words not mine).

 

One of the reasons we gave up boat ownership in 2015 was precisely because they do need constant attention. The effort needed to look after one can become very wearing unless you really enjoy DIY and fixing things. I do but only up to a point. 

 

If you take a boat on its important to understand this.

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11 minutes ago, agg221 said:

Can I throw a different question in to the mix - how practical are you?

 

If you are the kind of person who enjoys DIY, when the dishwasher throws a fault code you get out the manual and see if you can fix it, you can read a wiring diagram and have taken bits off your car and fixed them because it isn't worth the bother of getting someone else to do it then learning how to deal with a boat is a different set of skills but it's a matter of taking your time to do it. It's not just the maintenance but all the basic day to day things which are generally easier if you are fairly practical.

 

If however you are the kind of person who calls out the handyman to put up a shelf, takes the dishwasher to the tip and buys a new one as soon as a light starts flashing and gets Halfords to change your lightbulbs (OK, there are some modern cars where I would pay them to do it anyway!) then it will be rather a baptism of fire.

 

If you are very practical, one option would be to buy something with a sound hull (get a survey) but more of a project interior. It will cost less so you have less to lose if it doesn't work out, and more left in the bank. It will end up how you want it and, if you do a decent job, you may actually end up with it worth more than when you bought it, or at least not less, disregarding the time.

 

The Apolloduck website sorted by price is quite a useful way to see what you get for your money.

 

Alec

 

 

Thanks, I can turn my hand to many things and am also a (partially) carpenter trained and my eldest son works multi-trade for a company and does everything from kitchens, boarding, plumbing, cabinet building etc so got a pretty good base of friends/family to call on for things.

Edited by Triumph-Rat
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1 minute ago, Triumph-Rat said:

Thanks, I am also (partially) carpenter trained and my eldest son works multi-trade for a company and does everything from kitchens, boarding, plumbing, cabinet building etc so got a pretty good base of friends/family to call on for things.

It's a good basis to start from.

 

I hadn't run across 'bachelor boats' before but it's a good term.

Another thing which comes up quite often is part-finished projects. If you like the way it has been done so far, these can be a good bet. It wouldn't pay if you were costing your time, but you can get a lot for your money if what is there has been done to a high standard.

 

Fortunately, my family is happy with something basic (there was a hole in the wall of the house for a whole winter while I was building the connecting wall to the extension!) and they are happy with a boat that needs work. If your minimum spec. is a cooker, an engine, enough electrics to run lights, a toilet, some form of heating and a bed than that can be rigged up quickly while you work through zones along the boat, evicting rats/removing dubious stains etc or ripping out and doing a full refit area by area. We are in the process of buying something which has been fitted out to an exceptional standard where it has been done, but the owner's wife didn't like it so it has to go as-is, which is not finished off properly. The fact that it is unfinished has put a lot of people off - once finished it would probably sell for a bit more than we are paying for it, even allowing for materials, but it would definitely sell far more easily.

 

Alec

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1 hour ago, Triumph-Rat said:

Blimey, for a canal boat forum you lot aren't half keen on putting people off 😝

 

 

 

It's not that, it's just that we are all familiar with that feeling of excitement and anticipation that comes with the prospect of your first boat, and that wave of euphoria that will sweep over the first few calamities.  But once that subsides, you find you are either hooked on boats/canals for life, or you move on to something else.   Dare I say it's a little like getting married... No-one ever thinks their marriage is going to end in divorce but a heck of a lot do.  

 

You shouldn't worry about buying a "lemon", to be honest even at the top end of the market you are always buying someone else's problems or someone else's neglect, and no amount of expert opinion will avoid that.   

 

What you should bear in mind though is you may buy a boat that turns out to be totally unsuitable.   Over the years I've been a member of this forum I have witnessed scores of posts from first time buyers that go into great detail about what sort of boat they want "I need a 57 footer with a semi trad stern and reverse layout with a walk though bathroom " etc etc.  Fact is, you have no idea what will suit you until you have lived on a narrowboat for a while and done a fair bit of cruising in all weathers. 

 

So the best thing you can do is what Bee said and that is buy something that you know you will be able to sell when you have found out what it is you really want. 

 

Whatever you do don't buy something quirky just because it appeals to you and don't buy something on the spot.  Even if it's love at first sight go home and think about it for a few days, if someone gets it in the meantime never mind there's always another boat.  

 

I was talking to a surveyor recently and he told me there are instances of people buying boats without even physically viewing them,  utter, utter, madness, but that's how the market is at the moment.  Don't get sucked into it.

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1 hour ago, Neil2 said:

 

I was talking to a surveyor recently and he told me there are instances of people buying boats without even physically viewing them,  utter, utter, madness, but that's how the market is at the moment.  Don't get sucked into it.

This is probably happening in about 20-30% of sales at present believe it or not. People miss out on so many, they are panic buying when a new listing ticks most of their boxes.

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Personally, I would never sever my land base. But...

Watching an Otter working through the offside reeds, under a still moonlit sky, takes a lot of beating.(just now) But I am an insomniac. 

 

I despair at the number of people selling up their bricks and mortar, for a supposed idyll on water.. it is a much more hands on way of life and can be hard when the sun don't shine. I do get the want and vision, but the reality is oft way off the rose tinted mark.

 

Think long and hard before making the move. Remember, power level, water and bogs do not overly  concern a land dweller,  but are immense to a boater.

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On 21/09/2021 at 17:59, Triumph-Rat said:

Hi, name is Chris.

 

Don't want to start membership on a downer, but think I should outline my current situation to give some context to how dumb some of my initial questions may be 🙂

 

I am a self employed ecologist and life was OK up until last year, then covid hit and then work I had booked in stopped, people put barn conversions and land development on hold and Western Power who I had a number of jobs booked in with went to emergency works only so lots of work lost.

 

This resulted in many missed payments and by default a credit rating faceplant.

 

Now, as I am finally pulling it back round, my ex-wife has (after 12 years) decided she no longer wants to be on the mortgage.

 

I can't afford to buy her out, she can't afford to buy me out so the only option is me selling the house.

 

Bit of a wrench when it happened but I have always been a bit 'alternative' (apparently).

 

I know with my credit rating and age (52) I won't get another house mortgage, but having looked around it is just possible that I will make enough from the sale to afford a decent narrowboat.

 

Given that I love boats, fishing (maggot dipping mainly) and being able to have my space away from neighbors it seems the best solution.

 

So I am possibly going from years of bricks and mortar to finally being free (ish) 😀

 

Look forward to reading the info on here and maybe meeting some of you at some point down the line.

Hi Chris. I wasn't forced into living on a boat by finances. Rather, if I'd bought somewhere I'd have had to work in order to pay a mortgage or otherwise, live in a really grotty place. No way was I going to rent. I don't mind working a little but prefer the freedom of choosing whether to, or not. I didn't know much about boats when I bought one. The driver for me was wanting to live by/ on the water. I was into fishing and surfing, I swapped the latter for kayaking when I lived aboard. I was 51 when I bought the boat. I sold it earlier this year. I'd always wanted to live by the sea, the right place came up at the right price so I took it. I don't miss living on a boat, overall, but I have no regrets at all that I did it, for 7 years.   

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18 hours ago, Triumph-Rat said:

Blimey, for a canal boat forum you lot aren't half keen on putting people off 😝

 

I have a couple of people who can come to look at prospective purchases.  One is an auto electrician (assume fault finding would be the same) and the other a mechanic who grew up on boats as a member of a family of 'water gypsies' (his words not mine).

Maybe that's because there's a lot of experience 'floating' around having been gained it from owning a boat, not reading an ill informed article in the press or programme made for mass entertainment. Apart from any other argument anyone who buys a S/H boat at the moment must be either desperate or mad. Prices are ridiculous. I'm typing this overlooking a 30year old 45' boat, tidy but with no particular selling points that up for sale at pennies under 50k.   

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16 hours ago, matty40s said:

This is probably happening in about 20-30% of sales at present believe it or not. People miss out on so many, they are panic buying when a new listing ticks most of their boxes.

3 or 4 weeks ago I watched someone and his dad? struggling to sailaway on a newly bought boat that the younger one had bought to live on. They didn't even know how a morse control worked.

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15 minutes ago, Slim said:

3 or 4 weeks ago I watched someone and his dad? struggling to sailaway on a newly bought boat that the younger one had bought to live on. They didn't even know how a morse control worked.

A couple of years ago I met a couple of chaps on a brand new sailaway moored above the first lock south of Croxley. They had just had the boat craned in at P&S Marine and were heading for London. They watched me work up through the lock then asked me how it worked. Turned out they had never worked a lock before, had no idea how to do so, had no windlasses on board and thought they would be in Central London within a few hours!

Edited by David Mack
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19 hours ago, Triumph-Rat said:

Blimey, for a canal boat forum you lot aren't half keen on putting people off 😝

 

 

That is not the intention,but merely "Telling it like it is Man"

It's really so that you go into boat ownership with your eyes open,and are prepared for reality.

There are certainly wonderful days,just like "Great Canal Journeys" and some blogs you may have seen,but there are also some bloody awful ones too,like when you run out of coal or gas miles from anywhere in winter,and you wished you had fixed that window that is leaking on your bed.

As you are asking advice from us coffin dodgers (and others) I am sure you will be better informed than most other newbie boaters.

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16 minutes ago, David Mack said:

A couple of years ago I met a couple of chaps on a brand new sailaway moored above the first lock south of Croxley. They had just had the boat craned in at P&S Marine and were heading for London. They watched me work up through the lock then asked me how it worked. Turned out they had never worked a lock before, had no idea how to do so, had no windlasses on board and thought they would be in Central London within a few hours!

Reminds me of the tale of someone overhearing an American tourist gongoozling at some locks, who couldn't understand why the canal builders had bothered with all these lock things and why they hadn't just built one big one near London to save the hassle.

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No doubt we all have stories to illustrate how clueless some people are but I think this one takes some beating.

 

I can't remember exactly where it was, somewhere on the T&M, we were queued behind a boat going up one of the narrow locks as a boat was coming down.  There was a hire boat also waiting to come down and we arrived to witness an argument between the crew of the hire boat and the skipper of the boat in front of us.  I could sense the skipper becoming increasingly exasperated but eventually she got on her boat and proceeded into the lock whilst the hire boat crew went off in a huff.  My wife went up to the lock to help, and it transpired that the argument was about the hire boat crew insisting that because they had arrived at the lock before the boat waiting to go up, it should rightly be their "turn" next.  In other words, they were proposing to fill an empty lock even though there was a boat waiting to go up.

 

I suspect they may have been drinking, actually they had almost certainly been drinking, but even so that's taking pig ignorance to a level I didn't think possible.   

 

  

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To all who have taken any amount of umbrage to my 'putting people off comment' it was intended to be very tongue in cheek.

 

I am just here to find out as much as I can before potentially taking the plunge.

 

I can live with an internal doer-upper as long as I can cook, sleep comfortably, go to the toilet comfortably and have enough 240v for the tv, laptop and Playstation.

 

Like I say, I have become totally disillusioned with the brick and mortar life and haven't been able to go on holiday for the past 6 years due to work and the daily cash grind.

 

If nothing else owning a boat would mean I could go on holiday anytime I have a full tank of diesel, even if just a short jolly.  Also de-cluttering my life would be VERY therapeutic!!  I have all the rammel from 15 years of marriage in this house (including a solid wood blanket box that I have no idea where it came from but has nothing to do with me and a 6' kitchen table and chairs when there is only me and the dog here) and this would be a great cleansing ritual given that I assume storage is limited on boats.

 

I have started making inroads now just because of the idea so if no more comes of it at least I will have got rid of all the clutter LOL

 

Lots of good points made so far (thankyou) and sure it will be a big learning curve.

 

Is it worth doing a boat engine maintenance course or will that just give the basics that should be common sense for any engine.

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21 hours ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Yes.  Auto electricians know nothing about volt drop, big battery banks, solar power, 12v fridges, inverters, pumps or heaven forbid galvanic corrosion.

 

I don't think anyone here is trying to put you off at all.

The problem is that the publicity in the media in recent years has led to a huge number of boater wannabees buying boats and finding out that its not the idyll that they were led to believe.

 

Ask any marina how many boats they have i that never move, that are never visited after the first few months, that come up for sale again in very a short time and who's owners vow  "never again".

 

Well, here is an auto electrician who had no difficulty with those things, but I suspect that may be to do with the depth of training and willingness to self study. Well, actually a qualified vehicle technician who worked most of the time on the bench in auto electrics. I don't think you can generalise but I would be very wary of a domestic electrician.

 

People are right in pointing out that to get the most out of boating at a reasonable cost you have to be into DIY and willing to read, learn and ask questions because you will find much you don't know about. Anyway your attitude so far seems ideal to me because I am sure that you will keep coming back to ask questions and check on what you are not sure about.

 

Just make sure that you get a feel for those speaking form a wide experience in an area, rather than a narrow one.

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1 minute ago, Triumph-Rat said:

Is it worth doing a boat engine maintenance course or will that just give the basics that should be common sense for any engine.

 

If the RCR one is still basically the one I left them with, then yes, it covers a lot more than just engines. I am not s sure about the RYA franchised ones.I would say the same about the RCR electrical course as long as they still run it and it's basically the same. Have a look at my course notes and things on tb-training.co.uk and print them out if you like (or email me for the files).

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Just now, Tony Brooks said:

 

If the RCR one is still basically the one I left them with, then yes, it covers a lot more than just engines. I am not s sure about the RYA franchised ones.I would say the same about the RCR electrical course as long as they still run it and it's basically the same. Have a look at my course notes and things on tb-training.co.uk and print them out if you like (or email me for the files).

Thankyou

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