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Electrician on the Lancaster


Tom766

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Hi all. 

Trying to get an electrician to answer their phone is like trying to reverse a narrowboat in a straight line 😂

Could anyone recommend someone to fix my 240v circuit on my viking cruiser? 

The breaker keeps tripping. 

Mooring is at the top of the  Lancaster at Tewitfield. 

Thought I'd break the habit of a lifetime and pay a pro rather than muddle through what's probably a simple job myself. 

Proving difficult tho... 

IMG_20210908_123658.jpg

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If it's the one that is showing off then I suspect it's an MCB, like a fuse, so if it does it with everything unplugged it is a short circuit in the wiring but it may well just be a worn out breaker. I think they can be changed by unscrewing. It may be as well to turn the mains off and unplug and then take all your mains sockets and switches off to look for loose connections, stray cable whiskers and such like.

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27 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

If it's the one that is showing off then I suspect it's an MCB, like a fuse, so if it does it with everything unplugged it is a short circuit in the wiring but it may well just be a worn out breaker. I think they can be changed by unscrewing. It may be as well to turn the mains off and unplug and then take all your mains sockets and switches off to look for loose connections, stray cable whiskers and such like.

That's only rated at 6A. What does it supply?

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There are four double sockets on one breaker, the other has one light fitting. One breaker is showing a rusty screw. 

The pic is as far as I got because I tried pulling the link off the bottom of the breakers and it won't budge. All the fittings look good but I don't know if there's a bad connection somewhere in a cable. The boat was very wet inside when we bought her. 

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A "bad" connection should not trip a breaker because that would limit current flow, not cause excessive flow. However, a connection that is not  sealed and up against something wet, conductive, and close to a neutral may cause a short circuit and trip the breaker. That si why I suggested looking behind the sockets and any switches etc.

 

The one that's off looks as if it's the one with the light on it. The light and its wiring needs looking at.

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33 minutes ago, Tom766 said:

I'll change the breakers if I can get that bottom strap off, especially the rusty one. 

 

It should be a simple 'strap' with a slot in it, poke a small screwriver into the slot and lever 'downward' (it is held in place by a spring), the strap should then clear the rail and allow you to tilt the breaker towards you.

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3 hours ago, Tom766 said:

Hi all. 

Trying to get an electrician to answer their phone is like trying to reverse a narrowboat in a straight line 😂

Could anyone recommend someone to fix my 240v circuit on my viking cruiser? 

The breaker keeps tripping. 

Mooring is at the top of the  Lancaster at Tewitfield. 

Thought I'd break the habit of a lifetime and pay a pro rather than muddle through what's probably a simple job myself. 

Proving difficult tho... 

IMG_20210908_123658.jpg

 

If you do need a sparky ask at Bridgehouse Marina at Garstang they have a good guy who does a lot of work there I think he's called Neil, I did have contact details but can't find them.

 

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4 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

A "bad" connection should not trip a breaker because that would limit current flow, not cause excessive flow. However, a connection that is not  sealed and up against something wet, conductive, and close to a neutral may cause a short circuit and trip the breaker. That si why I suggested looking behind the sockets and any switches etc.

 

The one that's off looks as if it's the one with the light on it. The light and its wiring needs looking at.

 

I agree, this is quite likely. I once fixed this exact problem on Starcoaster's boat by searching high and low for hidden junction boxes. Found one under the gunwale in the bedroom under a leaking window. Took the top off and BINGO, full of water! 

 

But this illustrates why electricians are not answering the phone, they will all appreciate fixing this will involve a totally random amount of time finding the intermittent short circuit, if they ever do. And it is the "if they ever do" which is the biggest put-off, as if they don't find it, you'll be reluctant to pay them. 

Edited by MtB
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2 minutes ago, Tom766 said:

I'll spend some time tracing cables, wouldn't hurt to replace the MCB's I suppose too. 

You've got a fantastic website there, very technical, very witch craft 🙂

 

I fear that some or nearly all the wiring on a GRP boat will be behind carpet type cabin lining and plastic head lining stuck directly onto the GRP mouldings. This is why I said running new cables may be easier. I think small plastic clip top trunking running around the underside of the decks  would not look too unsightly. If the lamp is on the    roof then perhaps the trunking could run up a bulkhead and across the roof. I think you would need to glue the trunking in place.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Well.... perseverance paid off! 

Replaced both MCB's, the 16A was very corroded. Opened up all fittings, all good but still shorting somewhere. Put my meter on continuity and there's a short across live and earth. Disconnected all fittings, tested each run of cable. Eventually found the problem cable, physically traced what I could get to and there's a split in the insulation and scorching :-).

Cut the cable, put a connector in and sorted. Put everything back together and... tripped again aaarrgghhhh. 

Decided there must be another meltdown on that cable, bought new cable... Boom fixed... frustrating job but hey electricians are selective so no choice. 

BUT.... having previously removed and Sikaflexed two windows, we turned up today and find 2" water on the cabin floor, devastated as we'd gone through trouble and expense of lifting boat, moving a Hull fitting and gel coating some crazing. 

I'd sealed the water heater flue too as that had leaked, still leaking but the rain on the Lancaster had been torrential and blowing sideways I'm told. 

You know the feeling of losing the will to live? Seems no matter what, each visit consists of pumping water and not cruising. And there's me thinking cruisers we're less agro than narrowboats 😞

IMG_20210926_154047.jpg

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You do realise that using "Twin & Earth" type cable is a BIG No No (that damaged grey cable is that type) and is actually non-compliant with the boat building regulations.

Hopefully you replaced it waith 'proper' boat type flexible cable.

 

T&E is a solid core and if repeatedly flexed or subject to vibration the cores can break and short out - maybe that was your problem ?

 

There is normally a very good reason why boats have different build requirements to houses, this is one of them.

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1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

You do realise that using "Twin & Earth" type cable is a BIG No No (that damaged grey cable is that type) and is actually non-compliant with the boat building regulations.

Hopefully you replaced it waith 'proper' boat type flexible cable.

 

T&E is a solid core and if repeatedly flexed or subject to vibration the cores can break and short out - maybe that was your problem ?

 

There is normally a very good reason why boats have different build requirements to houses, this is one of them.

 

And similarly that weird gold-coloured cable next to the twin & earth which looks like loudspeaker cable or bell wire seems unlikely to be suitable either, due to probably low specification insulation.

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Hmm I'm sure you're right about the regs, I just replaced like for like and the ring main looks like it's been there years. . The boats got a safety cert which still has 2 yrs to run so I'm not sure how it passed. 

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16 minutes ago, Tom766 said:

Hmm I'm sure you're right about the regs, I just replaced like for like and the ring main looks like it's been there years. . The boats got a safety cert which still has 2 yrs to run so I'm not sure how it passed. 

Its not a BSS failure, But then again so are a lot of other things that are not good practice and could cost you your boat and maybe life

 

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Old grp boats seem to have more sources of leaks than steel narrowboats.I have had three and every one had  leaking windows,

or leaking hull fittings,or leaking vents ar all of the above.

Leaking windows, is it the frame to cabin sealing,or the glass to frame.

Pulpit rail and fender hangers get stressed and move and will leak eventually.

It needs careful and frustrating detective work to sort all the leaks but worth it for a dry damp free cabin.

Just remembered one particular leak on one of my boats took forever to find.My bedding under the foredeck would be damp and sometimes have a small wet patch.

I discovered the cause by accident when polishing the topsides and my duster kept snagging on something.

Some bright previous owner had screwed the curtain hooks into the fibreglass hull around the windows and screwed them right through the cabin top.

Only small pinholes but enough to let tiny trickles in.

Edited by Mad Harold
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Not a fail is OK with me if its OK with an inspector, RCDs n MCB's etc... 

Yes I've taken out the front windows and sealed frame to boat. Just used captain tolley's on glass to frame but battling against weather :-)(

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2 minutes ago, Tom766 said:

Not a fail is OK with me if its OK with an inspector, RCDs n MCB's etc... 

Yes I've taken out the front windows and sealed frame to boat. Just used captain tolley's on glass to frame but battling against weather :-)(

Have tried Capt Tolleys on window to frame,but it didn't work.

I think it is only good for tiny cracks.

To seal properly the only way is to dismantle the frame and fit new seals. (Seals Direct)

If you do this you have my sympathy, I have done it on all the windows on one of my boats, and I found it a sod of a job.

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31 minutes ago, Tom766 said:

Hmm I'm sure you're right about the regs, I just replaced like for like and the ring main looks like it's been there years. . The boats got a safety cert which still has 2 yrs to run so I'm not sure how it passed. 

 

Do you rerally, honestly believe that a BSS makes a boat safe for the owner / user ? (A = It doesn't)

 

The BSS website explains it, and it is not intended to make the boat safe for those on board, it is simply to protect any passersby and other boaters from being caught up in an explosion or fire.

 

Not a lot of people read the BSS website.

 

 

I quote their 'mission statement' :

 

The Boat Safety Scheme, or BSS, is a public safety initiative owned equally by the Canal & River Trust and the Environment Agency. Its purpose is to help minimise the risk of boat fires, explosions, or pollution harming visitors to the inland waterways, the waterways' workforce and any other users.

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2 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Do you rerally, honestly believe that a BSS makes a boat safe for the owner / user ? (A = It doesn't)

 

The BSS website explains it, and it is not intended to make the boat safe for those on board, it is simply to protect any passersby and other boaters from being caught up in an explosion or fire.

 

Not a lot of people read the BSS website.

 

 

I quote their 'mission statement' :

 

The Boat Safety Scheme, or BSS, is a public safety initiative owned equally by the Canal & River Trust and the Environment Agency. Its purpose is to help minimise the risk of boat fires, explosions, or pollution harming visitors to the inland waterways, the waterways' workforce and any other users.

I couldn't be bothered

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