Jump to content

Advice about converting to diesel


Slow_Dancing

Featured Posts

Hello from a newbie.

I've recently brought my first boat, she's a 30ft, 6'10 beam and she's  a 1984 Stourport Classic. I'm interested in finding out how much it would cost me to convert her from a petrol outboard to a diesel inboard. She's a center cockpit and there's room under the cockpit for an engine from what I can tell.

Can I have some advice on how to go about finding how much this would cost and if it's feasible. 

Thank you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Agreed. Unless this boat was specifically designed to accommodate an inboard engine, its unlikely to be feasible. As well as the hull stern shape, even if there is enough room under the cockpit floor for the engine you will lose space in the aft cabin to accommodate the propshaft. The cost would run to thousands. That will pay for a lot of petrol!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Any money you put into converting to a diesel engine (maybe £10,000) would haveto be written off.

 

Unnecessary scaremongering. 

 

The banning of diesel engines in existing boats lies so far into the future the OP may well be dead by the time that happens. Or their boat may be!

 

 

 

Edited by MtB
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Are there engine beds on the hull under the floor where an inboard option could have been installed? If so, it will need the engine, gearbox, a stern gland that can be bolted and glassed in to the hull, probably a P bracket, coupling, shaft, prop and a probably two day labour. If there are no beds then they will require making up of timber and glassing into the boat, so maybe a week's labour in total.

 

As others have said, probably not worth the cost, it may well cost more than the boat did and you will never get it back.

Edited by Tony Brooks
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The more common inboard engine conversions on grp cruisers usually use a stern drive (also known as a Z drive)

Buying everything needed and then fitting it all (or paying someone ) the cost as others have pointed out,doesn't bear thinking about.

There are drawbacks I know only too well with a petrol outboard,mainly lack of charging capacity and sometimes a long walk to get petrol.

However,they do have some plus points,much cheaper to buy than diesels,easier to maintain once they are off the boat,quieter and smoother than diesels.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thank you all for your replies.

It sounds from what everyone is saying that the cost isn't worth it.

I don't mind the long walks with my trolly for the petrol tbh.

Power is a concern. It's been suggested to me that solar and a small generator for the winter days is a good way to go as we are not heavy electricity users.

 

You have given me something to think about thank you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, MtB said:

 

Unnecessary scaremongering. 

 

The banning of diesel engines in existing boats lies so far into the future the OP may well be dead by the time that happens. Or their boat may be!

 

 

 

Agree on the scaremongering but electric drive + a diesel genny would work well and may be cheaper and easier than a diesel engine conversion.  Have the genny installed under the cockpit, and something like this on the back:  https://www.piratescave.co.uk/torqeedo-cruise-4000w-8hp-electric-outboard-motor.html

Edited by doratheexplorer
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, doratheexplorer said:

Agree on the scaremongering but electric drive + a diesel genny would work well and may be cheaper and easier than a diesel engine conversion.  Have the genny installed under the cockpit

 

I would not be 100% sure it would still not require a shaft unless you can get electric stern drives.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Tony Brooks said:

 

I would not be 100% sure it would still not require a shaft unless you can get electric stern drives.

See my edited post.  8hp should push a grp boat like this along the canals just fine.  Connect to a small bank of standard batteries and run the genny when needed.  Then get the bonus of limitless power all winter through the genny.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

35 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:

Agree on the scaremongering but electric drive + a diesel genny would work well and may be cheaper and easier than a diesel engine conversion.  Have the genny installed under the cockpit, and something like this on the back:  https://www.piratescave.co.uk/torqeedo-cruise-4000w-8hp-electric-outboard-motor.html

That's one way of converting an outboard powered boat to electric,but extremely expensive.

That electric outboard is about £1000 dearer than a new Honda outboard,and they are not cheap! Then you have the cost of the batteries,the genny,and solar panel too.

Unless you can run substantially on solar,I don't think there would be much saving of emissions or fuel cost.

For example; my little yoghurtpot uses 0.6ltr/hr with a 8hp outboard at canal speeds.I don't know what the fuel burn is of various gennys,but even allowing for increased efficiency of a genny running at it's optimum efficiency,unless there is substantial input from solar,I am guessing that my little boat would burn about the same amount of fuel.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

36 minutes ago, Mad Harold said:

That's one way of converting an outboard powered boat to electric,but extremely expensive.

That electric outboard is about £1000 dearer than a new Honda outboard,and they are not cheap! Then you have the cost of the batteries,the genny,and solar panel too.

Unless you can run substantially on solar,I don't think there would be much saving of emissions or fuel cost.

For example; my little yoghurtpot uses 0.6ltr/hr with a 8hp outboard at canal speeds.I don't know what the fuel burn is of various gennys,but even allowing for increased efficiency of a genny running at it's optimum efficiency,unless there is substantial input from solar,I am guessing that my little boat would burn about the same amount of fuel.

 

The cost isn't the thing though.  The OP already has an outboard, so the cheapest option involves spending nothing.  But she's implied she's looking for an alternative to long walks with a trolley.  My suggestion gives her that.  It's likely to be cheaper and less hassle than an inboard diesel.  It would be better in terms of providing a domestic power supply.  And it would be '2035 ready' if Alan De proves to be right. It would be more environmentally friendly.  It would mean she could buy fuel at any boatyard.  Finally, it would mean silent cruising at least some of the time.

 

I presume she already has some domestic batteries, so she'd just be connecting both the genny and the outboard to those.  One putting in leccy, and one taking it out.  She's also said she's looking at solar panels anyway.  I'd advise getting as many as I could fit.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

For goodness sake do the maths. It seems the 8hp one s rated at 4Kw s at 12v that is about 330 amps at full power. It's a small boat and the amount of solar that can be fitted will be limited, so they won't help much. Going down the diesel generator route come 2050 or whatever there will still be a problem if no diesel generators are allowed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Tony Brooks said:

Going down the diesel generator route come 2050 or whatever there will still be a problem if no diesel generators are allowed.

 

Diesel generators are not covered by the 2050 plan, it is simply direct propulsion must be by Zero emission methods. Reading the planning document suggests that a generator could be powered by non zero-emission fuel, but who knows if what they write is what they mean.

 

The zero emission plans are currently split into 3 areas :

Motor Vehicles (ICE banned by 2030)

Boats (ICE banned by 2050)

Aircraft (banned ?????)

 

It is more likely that the miniscule amount of diesel being used will mean there is little demand, so virtually no one is making it so the price will be £10 - £20 - ???? per litre so it will be self fulfilling.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

It is more likely that the miniscule amount of diesel being used will mean there is little demand, so virtually no one is making it so the price will be £10 - £20 - ???? per litre so it will be self fulfilling.

 

Do you really see aircraft being banned? I don't. Look at the sheer volume of consumer resistance there had been to losing the odd holiday abroad due to coronavirus. 

 

And when aircraft continue flying (as I believe they will) so will the manufacture of avgas, near as dammit the same stuff as diesel. 

 

If not, then

Edited by MtB
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Running with a petrol o/b isn't nearly as problematic as it used to be now we have the internet but still involves a bit of forward planning.  Rather than look at engine alternatives I would just buy an electric folding bike for trips to the filling station.

 

But you think it's an issue on the inland waterways, I remember reading an account of a couple who circumnavigated the UK in a petrol outboard powered cruiser, and it was all about the adventures they had finding fuel.  When they got to the North West of Scotland I seem to remember on one occasion they had something like a 20 mile hike and a couple of taxi journeys. 

Edited by Neil2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, MtB said:

Do you really see aircraft being banned? I don't. Look at the sheer volume of consumer resistance there had been to losing the odd holiday abroad due to coronavirus. 

 

Already - there are electric / battery powered short-haul aircraft operating in Canada and Scandinavia.

I'd never have believed it but the technology is moving on so fast I reckon bigger commercial aircraft will soon be on batteries.

The days of Very Long Haul may be over and multiple shorter hops may become the norm - especially if there are 'quick-change' battery packs available

9 minutes ago, MtB said:

And when aircraft continue flying (as I believe they will) so will the manufacture of avgas, near as dammit the same stuff as diesel. 

 

 

Avgas is the equivalent to 4 star petrol with the water removed. and is used in small, piston engined planes. We used to use 4* in the tow aircraft when launching gliders as at lower altitudes we had no car-icing problems so the little bit of water in 4* didn't matter.

Are you thinking of Jet-A1 (Kerosene) ?

Edited by Alan de Enfield
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

 

And when aircraft continue flying (as I believe they will) so will the manufacture of avgas, near as dammit the same stuff as diesel. 

 

 

Avgas is 100LL petrol.(for ICE  engines)

Avtur is kerosene (for turbine engines)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Neil2 said:

Running with a petrol o/b isn't nearly as problematic as it used to be now we have the internet but still involves a bit of forward planning.  Rather than look at engine alternatives I would just buy an electric folding bike for trips to the filling station.

 

But you think it's an issue on the inland waterways, I remember reading an account of a couple who circumnavigated the UK in a petrol outboard powered cruiser, and it was all about the adventures they had finding fuel.  When they got to the North West of Scotland I seem to remember on one occasion they had something like a 20 mile hike and a couple of taxi journeys. 

Petrol engines can be converted to run on Propane.More expensive,but available on the canals.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The people who believe that this country is on track towards an electric future, with electric cars, boats, even planes, and heat pumps instead of boilers - just observe the hand wringing that's going on since we lost that subsea cable connecting us to France.  We're already having to fire up fossil fuelled power stations to make up the shortfall.

 

The fact is, in terms of electricity generation and consumption the UK is right on the edge most of the time.  What wonderful thing is going to happen in the next 30 years to provide all the extra power needed for this emission free world?

 

Politicians and governments can spout on all they like about aspirations for the future, but on the strength of what's happened so far this century who would place any faith in that? 

 

  

13 minutes ago, Mad Harold said:

Petrol engines can be converted to run on Propane.More expensive,but available on the canals.

 

And much less efficient..?

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I too, am inclined to think its not worth the bother. If its your first boat you will soon have a list of things you would like for your next boat, some will be much more cost effective, more insulation if you live on board, better heating, more space and so on. You say there might be room under the cockpit floor for an engine, I wonder if it was originally fitted with an engine that died? and was replaced with an outboard? just a thought.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

24 minutes ago, Neil2 said:

The fact is, in terms of electricity generation and consumption the UK is right on the edge most of the time.  What wonderful thing is going to happen in the next 30 years to provide all the extra power needed for this emission free world?

 

It makes you wonder about the logic of telling the electricty companies to tun off their 'windy-mills' and paying them the 'estimated output they 'would have generated'if they hadn't turned them off.

 

Why are we paying them not to produce 'leccy ?

£9 million in one day's non-use ?

 

Wind farms across England and Scotland were handed £9.3 million to switch off their turbines on Friday, to balance supply and demand and stabilise the grid.

 

National Grid made constraint payments to more than 80 wind farms, compelling them to switch off so supply didn’t outpace demand on the windy, sunny weekend. That includes £6.9 million handed to 66 Scottish wind projects and £1.9 million paid to 14 offshore wind plants in England.

The total constraint payments for the day was more than double the previous record—£4.8 million paid to windfarm operators on 8 October 2018, when it was too windy. Last year, 86 windfarms were paid £136 million in constraint payments.

 

Wind Farms Paid £9.3 Million to Disconnect from Grid - Simply Switch

 

 

Scotland’s wind farm operators have been handed more than £230million to shut down their turbines.

The record windfall for 2020, funded by energy bill-payers, is up from £130million in 2019 – an increase of nearly 81 per cent in a year.

Experts estimate the amount of discarded energy is equivalent to about 14 per cent of total annual electricity consumption north of the Border.

The cash given to power giants is known as ‘constraint payments’, made when it is too windy for turbines to operate – or when the supply of energy outstrips demand and the National Grid cannot absorb their output.

Last night, Scottish Tory energy spokesman Alexander Burnett said: ‘This significant increase in payment shows that the SNP’s strategy is simply not delivering value for money.

‘The public are being short-changed at having to shell out so much for these turbines to be switched off.

‘SNP ministers must use these figures as a wake-up call.’

Figures showing that £235million was paid out in constraints last year were produced by the Renewable Energy Foundation (REF), the UK charity that first drew attention to the payments and now publishes the data on a daily basis.

 

 

Edited by Alan de Enfield
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

It makes you wonder about the logic of telling the electricty companies to tun off their 'windy-mills' and paying them the 'estimated output they 'would have generated'if they hadn't turned them off.

 

Why are we paying them not to produce 'leccy ?

 

Wind farms across England and Scotland were handed £9.3 million to switch off their turbines on Friday, to balance supply and demand and stabilise the grid.

 

National Grid made constraint payments to more than 80 wind farms, compelling them to switch off so supply didn’t outpace demand on the windy, sunny weekend. That includes £6.9 million handed to 66 Scottish wind projects and £1.9 million paid to 14 offshore wind plants in England.

The total constraint payments for the day was more than double the previous record—£4.8 million paid to windfarm operators on 8 October 2018, when it was too windy. Last year, 86 windfarms were paid £136 million in constraint payments.

 

Wind Farms Paid £9.3 Million to Disconnect from Grid - Simply Switch

 

Yes how ridiculous that's like paying people to not go to work.

 

Oh, hang on....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.