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What would be your perfect towpath bicycle?


Jim Batty

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Having not eaten in a restaurant in 18 months, I find myself with some pennies saved and a notion to get a decent bicycle that can handle all manner of towpaths (gravel, earth, grass, roots, ...) and wayward day trips up backroads and wooded pathways. Plus getting in groceries. I reckon I need some kind of hybrid bike that would be fun to ride with the following:

 

  • Hardtail with good front suspension with modest travel
  • Medium width tyres with a bit of grip (wider than road tyres, but not as wide as full mountain bike ones)
  • A 1x11 or 1x12 set of gears (to keep things simple)
  • Mudguards
  • Rear pannier fixing points (so I can hang my old Ortliebs on a rack)

 

Any thoughts? Bonus points for any bike that is actually in stock and available to buy somewhere!

 

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1 hour ago, Jim Batty said:

Having not eaten in a restaurant in 18 months, I find myself with some pennies saved and a notion to get a decent bicycle that can handle all manner of towpaths (gravel, earth, grass, roots, ...) and wayward day trips up backroads and wooded pathways. Plus getting in groceries. I reckon I need some kind of hybrid bike that would be fun to ride with the following:

 

  • Hardtail with good front suspension with modest travel
  • Medium width tyres with a bit of grip (wider than road tyres, but not as wide as full mountain bike ones)
  • A 1x11 or 1x12 set of gears (to keep things simple)
  • Mudguards
  • Rear pannier fixing points (so I can hang my old Ortliebs on a rack)

 

Any thoughts? Bonus points for any bike that is actually in stock and available to buy somewhere!

 

 

Your list of features sounds right for the type of surfaces and riding you want to do. Not up on hybrids in production, let alone what might actually be in stock right now.

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I ride a Dahon Zero-G. A wonderful and near-perfect towpath bike that literally folds in half for easy insertion into a car or van. The only thing I had to add was mudguards. 

 

Sadly long discontinued, but second hand examples occasionally pop up on ebay. I have two of 'em! 

 

https://www.thebikelist.co.uk/dahon/zero-g-2006

 

 

image.png.b3fb68f298302351b49bf68360d538d0.png

 

 

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5 hours ago, Jim Batty said:

Having not eaten in a restaurant in 18 months, I find myself with some pennies saved and a notion to get a decent bicycle that can handle all manner of towpaths (gravel, earth, grass, roots, ...) and wayward day trips up backroads and wooded pathways. Plus getting in groceries. I reckon I need some kind of hybrid bike that would be fun to ride with the following:

 

  • Hardtail with good front suspension with modest travel
  • Medium width tyres with a bit of grip (wider than road tyres, but not as wide as full mountain bike ones)
  • A 1x11 or 1x12 set of gears (to keep things simple)
  • Mudguards
  • Rear pannier fixing points (so I can hang my old Ortliebs on a rack)

 

Any thoughts? Bonus points for any bike that is actually in stock and available to buy somewhere!

 

You forgot the bell 🔔

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I've been thinking similar thoughts myself for a long time, but my ideal bike also includes the ability to fold and fit onto a train as luggage, because I gave up my car a few months ago.

I originally got a full size ebike with 26 inch wheels, but I had a couple of close shaves squeezing it onto trains in the Spring and Summer, and I resolved to get a bike that did not have to go into the designated bike area on a train, as in busy times these are often full. 

In theory you can book a spot in the bike storage area, but if you don't want to commit to a precise train, it can get a bit tricky. The last time I forgot it was a holiday, and the platforms and trains were packed.  

 

So for me, a bike has to allow me to travel long distances by train to visit friends and family, and to able to travel as a passenger with normal luggage. 

 

So the full size bikes are out. Some fold, but not small enough to fit on a train as luggage, although by folding it you greatly increase your chances of getting it onto the train in any case, to be fair.

So I got a Brompton ebike, at enormous expense, with the train transport issue forefront in my thoughts. 

 

And on that front, the Brompton is almost unbeatable. A few months ago I had to get the bike onto a bus (and the available spaces on a bus can be a bit more restricted in practice than it is on a train- although I dont about any hard and fast rules).  I had a 15 mile round trip to pick up some gear from a small town, and it was supposed to rain heavily most of the day, so I opted for the bus, but with a couple of miles cycling involved.  

The folded brompton fitted on the bus with no issues, and not even a query from the driver. 

 

But then I started cycling a bit further, and down more rutted overgrown towpaths, and I realised I had made a mistake. The brompton has only a very small suspension block on the rear, and small 16 inch wheels that are normally pumped up to over 100 psi so they are bullet hard, and quite narrow.

The ride comfort is therefore much harsher than I expected on rough towpaths, and I also feel it will not be the safest ride in the winter, with muddy towpaths and potholed country lanes. 

 

The other thing about a brompton is that you never feel you can safely leave it- even locked- outside a supermarket. They are the Honda EU20 of the bike world, and immensely desirable to thieves, so you find yourself wheeling the bike around the shops with you. Not a problem as such, but it can get a bit unwieldy at times.

 

So the brompton has now been relegated to dry weather duty on decent surfaces (plus journeys involving public transport of course), and I am once again looking for a workhorse for the rough and tumble of everyday towpath duty, popping 5-10 miles into a nearby Amazon pickup location or supermarket, etc. 

It needs to be a folder because that's always my preference. I might get a lift back to the station from whoever I'm visiting, so I might want to put it into a car, or catch a train, or whatever. I like having the option.

Plus a folder is less intrusive than a full size bike when tethered to the stern rail.

 

I've decided that I dont fancy riding thin and hard 16 inch tyres on winter towpaths though, so my ideal bike will have 20 inch wheels, with the space to fit fatter tyres for a smoother ride. It also cant be too heavy (my old e MTB was 27kg, and was a pain to lift in and out of the cratch when that was needed. 

 

At the moment, given all those criteria, this is the one I'm looking at: 

 

 

 

 

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experience

1 hour ago, Cheshire cat said:

That is a fallacy pedalled by bicycle manufacturers marketing departments

That's not fallacy, it comes from experience.

 

Fact one

 

Rim brakes will heat up cycle rim when braking on a long descent, which may result in the tire blowing of the rim, This has happen to me while riding the 2001 Dorset Coast 200km while dropping down in to Lyme Regis. You don't have this problem with a disk rotor it just gets hot

 

Fact two

 

Rim Brakes wear down the surface of the rim until becames too thin and fails. Average life of the rim when used for club runs 18 to 24 months (4500-6000 miles) before it fails. My current custom built audax bike fitted with  cable disc brakes and it also appeared in Cycling weekly was built in 2001, the wheels lasted to 2018 (60000 miles) when the hubs wore out, the rims were reused when I built a set of new wheels. I also only had to replace the disk pads five times in 17 years, with rim brakes it was two or three times a year.

 

Fact three

 

The braking effect of a rim brake is reduce when any lube (Even water) comes between the brake pad and the wheel rim. More so if fitted with steel rims. If sand or grit is mixed in what ever is between the pad and the rim it will  act as sand paper and sand away the surface of the rim, braking is also reduced.      

 

 

To sum up

 

Disc brakes work better in their functionality than rim brakes, There’s more bite, particularly in wet conditions and they aren’t as prone to weather contamination, either. They’re more predictable. The lever feel is better

 

Rims last longer when you use disc brakes- Because disc brakes use a rotor for a braking surface, the rims don't get worn down by braking. Discs have the edge in wet and muddy conditions because the rotors stay cleaner than your rims.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by nbfiresprite
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3 hours ago, nbfiresprite said:

experience

That's not fallacy, it comes from experience.

 

Fact one

 

Rim brakes will heat up cycle rim when braking on a long descent, which may result in the tire blowing of the rim, This has happen to me while riding the 2001 Dorset Coast 200km while dropping down in to Lyme Regis. You don't have this problem with a disk rotor it just gets hot

 

Fact two

 

Rim Brakes wear down the surface of the rim until becames too thin and fails. Average life of the rim when used for club runs 18 to 24 months (4500-6000 miles) before it fails. My current custom built audax bike fitted with  cable disc brakes and it also appeared in Cycling weekly was built in 2001, the wheels lasted to 2018 (60000 miles) when the hubs wore out, the rims were reused when I built a set of new wheels. I also only had to replace the disk pads five times in 17 years, with rim brakes it was two or three times a year.

 

Fact three

 

The braking effect of a rim brake is reduce when any lube (Even water) comes between the brake pad and the wheel rim. More so if fitted with steel rims. If sand or grit is mixed in what ever is between the pad and the rim it will  act as sand paper and sand away the surface of the rim, braking is also reduced.      

 

 

To sum up

 

Disc brakes work better in their functionality than rim brakes, There’s more bite, particularly in wet conditions and they aren’t as prone to weather contamination, either. They’re more predictable. The lever feel is better

 

Rims last longer when you use disc brakes- Because disc brakes use a rotor for a braking surface, the rims don't get worn down by braking. Discs have the edge in wet and muddy conditions because the rotors stay cleaner than your rims.

 

 

I'll add a Fact four:
On the rear wheel, a brake disc balances the offset which the freewheel block creates, eliminating, or much reducing the "dishing" effect on the wheel. This means that left and right spokes can be run at similar tensions. On non-disc wheels, it's vastly more common for the block-side spokes to break, as a consequence of spokes on that side needing to be shorter and tensioned higher to pull the wheel across to make space for the block on one side.
On my own bike, left and right spokes are the same length on the back, which is fabulous because I need to carry only one length as spares when touring. The only time (in seven years of having this bike, touring with full front and back panniers in Australasia and Europe) I've needed to replace a spoke was when something fell into the wheel.

Edited by Puffling
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9 hours ago, Tony1 said:

and I am once again looking for a workhorse for the rough and tumble of everyday towpath duty, popping 5-10 miles into a nearby Amazon pickup location or supermarket, etc. 

It needs to be a folder because that's always my preference. 

 

Assuming you don't want it to be electric, the Dahon "Jack" uses the same "centre-hinge" frame as the Zero-G I mentioned upthread and appears to be still available new. It is the most excellent towpath folding bike I've ever ridden - you would not know it was a folder if you just grabbed one and test-rode it. The only drawback of the "Jack" is the rigid forks, but it is not that difficult to fit a set of RockShox bouncy forks to make it ride like a Zero-G. 

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58 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

Assuming you don't want it to be electric, the Dahon "Jack" uses the same "centre-hinge" frame as the Zero-G I mentioned upthread and appears to be still available new. It is the most excellent towpath folding bike I've ever ridden - you would not know it was a folder if you just grabbed one and test-rode it. The only drawback of the "Jack" is the rigid forks, but it is not that difficult to fit a set of RockShox bouncy forks to make it ride like a Zero-G. 

 

Its ebikes only for me I'm afraid- I'm a lazy bugger. I dont mind turning the motor off and doing some graft now and again, but having the option for an easier ride is great. 

 

 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

 

Its ebikes only for me I'm afraid- I'm a lazy bugger. I dont mind turning the motor off and doing some graft now and again, but having the option for an easier ride is great. 

 

I'm scared of e-bikes. Once I get one, I fear my ordinary bikes will just rot away unused.

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21 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

I'm scared of e-bikes. Once I get one, I fear my ordinary bikes will just rot away unused.

 

Its an interesting discussion tbh. In my younger years my daily commute was a 15 mile round trip, and I loved doing that by bike.

Even when my wife drove our car into town along the same route that I rode, I still preferred the bike. 

 

I think I got lazier as I got older, and when I started a 5 mile commute again in 2014, I used an ebike. I still got hot and sweaty, because I rode it as hard as I could, and those things stop helping you at 15mph, so if you go faster you have to work at it. 

 

But a few years further on, and even less fit than I was in 2014, I'm finding there are some mornings where my knee is a tad stiff or sore. Also, to use a current example, the 7 mile ride from Whixall into Whitchurch looks a lot less appealing in bad weather, or with a sore knee.  

The ebike makes that kind of trip easier to contemplate.

I could do the decent thing, man up a bit and just train myself to cover a 15-20 mile round trip on a normal bike, and actually that would be a far better workout and just better for me generally.

But at the moment I'm leaning towards the lazy side, and not being bathed in sweat when I arrive at the shops, and again when I get back to the boat.  

 

I may well change my mind on this, and just toughen up a bit. 

If you manage fine on a normal bike, I think you're right not to rush into getting an ebike, because although you will use it more often (apparently), it is less of a workout. 

 

Edited by Tony1
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17 hours ago, Jim Batty said:

Having not eaten in a restaurant in 18 months, I find myself with some pennies saved and a notion to get a decent bicycle that can handle all manner of towpaths (gravel, earth, grass, roots, ...) and wayward day trips up backroads and wooded pathways. Plus getting in groceries. I reckon I need some kind of hybrid bike that would be fun to ride with the following:

 

  • Hardtail with good front suspension with modest travel
  • Medium width tyres with a bit of grip (wider than road tyres, but not as wide as full mountain bike ones)
  • A 1x11 or 1x12 set of gears (to keep things simple)
  • Mudguards
  • Rear pannier fixing points (so I can hang my old Ortliebs on a rack)

 

Any thoughts? Bonus points for any bike that is actually in stock and available to buy somewhere!

 

 

With respect, your list of requirements is not compatible with your spec.  For a bike that will handle "all manner" of towpaths you'll need tyres wider than the typical hybrid.  

 

I was only half joking about the fat bike, one of these with electric assistance would handle any towpath you are likely to come across and a lot more besides.  But it would be a dead weight.  I'd still go with a straight fat bike though.  They are not as slow as you might think.  I friend of mine was doing a cross country tour with a group and they were all on full sus MTB's.  He somehow broke an axle though and the only thing he could hire at the time was a fat bike, unsuspended but 4" tyres.  He said he was leaving his mates for dead from that point on and he ended up buying one.  Plus where I live we get proper snow in winter and these bikes are about the only thing you can safely ride in snow. 

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I guess the comment about rim wear reflects the fact that rims now seem to all be made of aluminium rather than chromium-plated steel. I recently had to buy a new rear wheel for my bike due to an encounter with a foot deep pothole that was not visible due to being filled with rain water: the carriageway had collapsed next to a drain. I noted that the wheel had a sticker announcing that it was a consumable item, and did wonder why. 

 

My Bickerton has steel-rimmed wheels, and still has the Rayleigh Raincheck brake blocks that I fitted in the 1980's. They  incorporporate  a leather strip that gives better grip in the wet than rubber, but only on steel rims, not alumium. However, they do need regular cleaning with a fine wire brush and detergent to remove the grit that gets embedded in the surface after a while, and eventually presents a highly polished surface to the rim that doesn't exactly improve braking performance. Never seems to damage  the rims though. 

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Well, there's some great ideas here. Thanks for your thoughts Tony1 on the Brompton. I have drooled over Bromptons for a couple of years now. I love the build quality and cleverness of the design. Until the pandemic I was commuting via train three times a week and sometimes wished I had one simply for the ability to fold it down and store it on a train. I know all about booking bikes onto trains and getting them on busy services on a Friday evening. What I was never sure about though was the ride on rough towpaths. Partly the steering of a small wheel around holes, depressions, long ruts and such. Also, I realise the tyres are very firm and narrow and wondered about that. Your experience seems to confirm some of my worries. The Fiido looks amazing. But I sure wouldn't leave that anywhere I couldn't see!

 

I'm presently riding a Specialized Rockhopper circa 1998, with a Nitanium (nickel/titanium) frame. I've had a couple of aficionados smile and complement me on my 'antique' kept in reasonably good condition. It's the sort of bike I can leave locked up in the bike racks behind Reading station overnight (or weekends, or for two weeks, actually, when on holiday) without fear it will be stolen. Long ago I removed the original mountain bike tyres and replaced them with lo-ish profile tyres midway in width between road and mountain. They work for me. I'd just like some front end suspension. The challenge seems to be finding a hybrid with a decent fork -- something that will last and not rust or crap out after a couple of years.

 

I like Mtb's Dahon. Something I haven't looked at. Will check that out.

 

As we mostly CC, I think an e-bike is out of the question. If we have to 'organise' the charging of our mobile phones and laptops ... I think recharging the bike would require even more messing about. Not impossible ... just not easy. Or maybe run an outdoor 230v plug to the front deck off the inverter? Hmmm. If we stayed in one place with electric, I'd definitely consider one -- I'm not averse to the 'easy way'.

 

The braking discussion is interesting. To be honest, I have rim brakes on the Rockhopper and never had a problem with them. In fact, I barely think about them. I replaced them for the first time two years ago when I noticed the metal mounts inside the rubber had worn through and were scratching the aluminium rims. I know, I know, I should take them more seriously. But they've been fine on the towpath and even on the very occasional 15% grade hills. In the rain. For years.

 

A buddy at work said his disk brakes were great ... until he had to re-mount the wheel (after fixing a puncture, or whatever), where it was considerably more fiddly than when using rim brakes. TBH though, I'd be happy with a little extra work with disk brakes if the braking is much better -- which it seems it should be. Not sure about servicing disk brakes operated with oil lines.

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17 minutes ago, Jim Batty said:

Well, there's some great ideas here. Thanks for your thoughts Tony1 on the Brompton. I have drooled over Bromptons for a couple of years now. I love the build quality and cleverness of the design. Until the pandemic I was commuting via train three times a week and sometimes wished I had one simply for the ability to fold it down and store it on a train. I know all about booking bikes onto trains and getting them on busy services on a Friday evening. What I was never sure about though was the ride on rough towpaths. Partly the steering of a small wheel around holes, depressions, long ruts and such. Also, I realise the tyres are very firm and narrow and wondered about that. Your experience seems to confirm some of my worries. The Fiido looks amazing. But I sure wouldn't leave that anywhere I couldn't see!

 

I'm presently riding a Specialized Rockhopper circa 1998, with a Nitanium (nickel/titanium) frame. I've had a couple of aficionados smile and complement me on my 'antique' kept in reasonably good condition. It's the sort of bike I can leave locked up in the bike racks behind Reading station overnight (or weekends, or for two weeks, actually, when on holiday) without fear it will be stolen. Long ago I removed the original mountain bike tyres and replaced them with lo-ish profile tyres midway in width between road and mountain. They work for me. I'd just like some front end suspension. The challenge seems to be finding a hybrid with a decent fork -- something that will last and not rust or crap out after a couple of years.

 

I like Mtb's Dahon. Something I haven't looked at. Will check that out.

 

As we mostly CC, I think an e-bike is out of the question. If we have to 'organise' the charging of our mobile phones and laptops ... I think recharging the bike would require even more messing about. Not impossible ... just not easy. Or maybe run an outdoor 230v plug to the front deck off the inverter? Hmmm. If we stayed in one place with electric, I'd definitely consider one -- I'm not averse to the 'easy way'.

 

The braking discussion is interesting. To be honest, I have rim brakes on the Rockhopper and never had a problem with them. In fact, I barely think about them. I replaced them for the first time two years ago when I noticed the metal mounts inside the rubber had worn through and were scratching the aluminium rims. I know, I know, I should take them more seriously. But they've been fine on the towpath and even on the very occasional 15% grade hills. In the rain. For years.

 

A buddy at work said his disk brakes were great ... until he had to re-mount the wheel (after fixing a puncture, or whatever), where it was considerably more fiddly than when using rim brakes. TBH though, I'd be happy with a little extra work with disk brakes if the braking is much better -- which it seems it should be. Not sure about servicing disk brakes operated with oil lines.

 

 

I have to confess Jim, that is a personal viewpoint on the Brompton, and I've seen a few boaters using them on my travels, so I'm in the minority. 

The 'pirate' boat lady on youtube uses a brompton (to which she is getting an ebike kit fitted), and the people I've asked have seemed have seemed happy with them. 

 

But when things get really muddy and really cold, and when you have half a mile or more of deeply rutted towpath to cover before you get to a country lane that will also be rutted and potholed, I cant help but have my doubts about those very hard and thin tyres- but that said, if there's any bike you want to fall from, it would be a brompton.

 

On the brakes issue, I do think in general disks are great, but I will say that the rim brakes on my brompton are superb, and they give me much more confidence than the disk brakes on my electric MTB. 

 

Just a final thought on charging- its not the major issue you think it might be.

My eMTB has an 11Ah battery that takes a few hours to charge from 50%. Initially it draws about 15 amps, but that reduces over time. But there's no getting round the fact that to fully charge up, it is going to take at least 11Ah from your batteries every few days, which I guess equates to about a quarter of what your fridge uses in 24 hours. 

 

My take on it is that if you think an ebike will suit your cruising style (and I am a CCer myself), then you find a way to do the charging.

I have lithium batteries and a lot of solar, so its not an issue for me in the summer, but tbh if you get into the ebiek vs manual bike discussion, there are various other factors and issue to bear in mind anyway.

 

 

Edited by Tony1
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I've also got a Brompton (borrowed from my brother, not nicked 🙂 ) and I concur completely with Tony1. It's a fantastically clever design, and I love it on the boat because it is small enough when folded to actually fit in a locker inside the boat. But I dread taking it into a town centre because it is the most stolen bike in existence. It's fine for what I use it for, setting locks ahead up Tardebigge for example, and it's the best folding bike I've ridden, but as soon as I get home and back on a 'real' bike then I wish I could fit my MTB on the boat (not leaving a very expensive bike on the roof though !)

 

I quite like the look of that Dahon though...might need to go trawling eBay whilst the Mrs is out. She'd freak if I bought another bike though !

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I borrowed a friends brompton  years ago, brilliant as it is I never liked it on a rough towpath due to the wheel size.

I have used a Dahon D7 for several years, initially folded in the car boot for the final commute into work but now on the boat. It has 20inch wheels and rides well on a variety of surfaces. Doesn't fold as small as a Brompton, but still easily fits in a modern trad engine room. 7 speed gears and comfy enough to ride for a distance, mine came with a carrier and I believe they are still in production 

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52 minutes ago, WhiteSuit said:

I borrowed a friends brompton  years ago, brilliant as it is I never liked it on a rough towpath due to the wheel size.

I have used a Dahon D7 for several years, initially folded in the car boot for the final commute into work but now on the boat. It has 20inch wheels and rides well on a variety of surfaces. Doesn't fold as small as a Brompton, but still easily fits in a modern trad engine room. 7 speed gears and comfy enough to ride for a distance, mine came with a carrier and I believe they are still in production 

 

If you're one of those people who love a folder, but find that 16 inch wheels ride a bit too harshly for you, check out this beauty below: 

 

Its a Tern- a US company that are in essence an offshoot of Dahon but of higher quality and price, and its the most compact 20 inch folder on the market. With the right tyres, I feel it could cope with most towpaths, in most conditions, and not be too harsh a ride.

You can trolley it around on mini wheels when its folded, like you can a Brompton.

They do an 8 geared version for a whopping £1300, but personally I absolutely love the look of it.

But they're not nearly so well known as Brompton, so you could probably risk locking it up outside Tesco (in a nice town anyway) whilst you go shopping- and that is something I would never do with the Brompton. 

If there was an ebike version of this, I would already have it. But sadly a couple of converters I spoke to arent happy that their kits will fit it. 

But if I ever get fit enough that I dont even want an ebike, this will be what I get. 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Tony1
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1 hour ago, Tony1 said:

If you're one of those people who love a folder, but find that 16 inch wheels ride a bit too harshly for you, check out this beauty below: 

 

 

How disappointing, I was expecting the video to show the one thing really important to someone being asked to shell out £1.3k for a folding bike - how it folds up! 

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21 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

How disappointing, I was expecting the video to show the one thing really important to someone being asked to shell out £1.3k for a folding bike - how it folds up! 

 

The folding demo is at about 2mins 50secs

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