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dreadnought

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16 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

I think that the big problem is that the original idea has evolved to become a 'monster' that needs continual 'feeding', encompasses 27 (28 ?) different nations and cultures, and covers everything from a "rowing boat to a £10m transatlantic motor yacht". There are huge swathes of legislation that are going to be potentially 'not applicable' to some class of boats.

 

If I was writing it I'd have core subjects that all powered vessels must comply with (eg, fuel, engines, gas and electrics) and other requirements would be listed as applicable to Category A, B, C, or D vessels as required.

 

Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

There’s a whole new ball game now in the EU to cover anything e.g environmental permits where they haven’t got round to making a standard. It is called Best Available Technology - BAT. Another course to go on!

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The much maligned choc block connector.  Used for over a century in their billions, held the British industrial society together.

 

I love them. Used properly they work just fine, its the limp wristed users that can't tighten screws that have problems. The terminals are the same as every consumer unit bus bar so where is the beef?

 

They are far and away better than the American "Screw It" used still on just twisted wires.

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15 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Agreed, my JIC cupboard is 'full' of them.

 

I wonder how many people actually use a boot-lace ferrule to avoid stray strands sticking out of the 'bloc'

Me does😎

And I use ferrules when fitting 13amp plugs/sockets to stranded cable, anything where a screw screws down onto a stranded cable needs ferrules😱

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16 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Agreed, my JIC cupboard is 'full' of them.

 

I wonder how many people actually use a boot-lace ferrule to avoid stray strands sticking out of the 'bloc'

It all comes back to the care that the wires are prepared, inserted and tightened into the terminals. Using ferrules though not a new idea was never used in my working days and we jointed wires from telecom and alarm sizes to 120mm copper trefoils without difficulties.

 

Its as easy to have stray strands sticking out of a ferrule as anything else and it only introduces yet another joint interface to the termination.

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40 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

It all comes back to the care that the wires are prepared, inserted and tightened into the terminals. Using ferrules though not a new idea was never used in my working days and we jointed wires from telecom and alarm sizes to 120mm copper trefoils without difficulties.

 

Its as easy to have stray strands sticking out of a ferrule as anything else and it only introduces yet another joint interface to the termination.

Ferrules are only needed when there is a screw directly bearing on the strands of cable. They are not needs where wires are crimped or clamped. 

For cables from 50mm up to 240mm we used to wrap the cable end in copper  foil to prevent damage from screws.

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Today I have broken at least 6 traffic rules, (going a bit quick, naughty parking, ignoring 'residents only' road closure, driving with unsafe load in van (motor scythe unsecured) and for lunch I had a bit of Gouda that we smuggled through customs a few weeks ago. After repairing the motor scythe I started it and broke noise rules (the exhaust was not fixed) and  I'm sure that I will break a few more before bed time tonight. After I go to sleep most of my dreams are illegal. I feel so GOOD and the day I give up and wear tartan slippers and a caramel cardigan I will put the pillow over my own head. RCD indeed!

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I started using ferrules a few months ago after finding that they are available cheaply from CPC/Farnell. I already had a suitable crimping tool. I have had problems finding  chocolate blocks that use screws with captive rotatable tips or screws bearing on clamps that avoid the screw twisting the wires. We used to have them at Plessey in the 1970's but only plain screw clamp types seem to be readily available  now. 

Edited by Ronaldo47
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1 hour ago, Loddon said:

Me does😎

And I use ferrules when fitting 13amp plugs/sockets to stranded cable, anything where a screw screws down onto a stranded cable needs ferrules😱

 

46 minutes ago, Loddon said:

Ferrules are only needed when there is a screw directly bearing on the strands of cable. They are not needs where wires are crimped or clamped. 

For cables from 50mm up to 240mm we used to wrap the cable end in copper  foil to prevent damage from screws.

 

We have a commercial property and when we had the recent five year inspection our sparky took me to task for the way I had fitting a ceiling light.  It was one of those where the wire ends are "push fit" ie there are no securing screws.  He was adamant the wire end still needs a ferrule.   What do you think?

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13 minutes ago, Neil2 said:

 

 

We have a commercial property and when we had the recent five year inspection our sparky took me to task for the way I had fitting a ceiling light.  It was one of those where the wire ends are "push fit" ie there are no securing screws.  He was adamant the wire end still needs a ferrule.   What do you think?

 

Having worked for the company that makes 'push-fits' I'd strongly suggest that the use of ferrules is even more important than their use in 'screw-fittings'.

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7 hours ago, PaulD said:

When CE marking started a risk assessment was done to determine which standards should be applied and the consequences of each risk to ensure it was being dealt with adequately. I still have my course notes. It was originally intended to be within the ability of any competent engineer. Gradually the process degenerated into an expensive paper exercise to demonstrate compliance with a huge list of standards many (most) of which were irrelevant and not associated with any real hazard. 

 

And not only that, but now they are adding in requirements for environmental protection reasons, nothing to do with safety or risk. 

 

Best example being the banning of fitting vintage engines.

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1 hour ago, Neil2 said:

 

 

We have a commercial property and when we had the recent five year inspection our sparky took me to task for the way I had fitting a ceiling light.  It was one of those where the wire ends are "push fit" ie there are no securing screws.  He was adamant the wire end still needs a ferrule.   What do you think?

There is debate on this matter, if it was the type of fitting with no lever just a hole you push the cable in  then I think he is correct as they are designed for single core cable, if it has a lever that you release once the cable is in place then he is wrong.

ETA

I have had long conversations with CeeNorm technical department about whether ferrules should be used in their industrial quick fit connectors and the advice was no.

Edited by Loddon
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35 minutes ago, Loddon said:

There is debate on this matter, if it was the type of fitting with no lever just a hole you push the cable in  then I think he is correct as they are designed for single core cable, if it has a lever that you release once the cable is in place then he is wrong.

ETA

I have had long conversations with CeeNorm technical department about whether ferrules should be used in their industrial quick fit connectors and the advice was no.

 

Sounds like he was right.

 

TBH I was mostly impressed that he had even checked, mind you for what they charge us I would expect everything to be taken apart.

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2 minutes ago, Neil2 said:

 

Sounds like he was right.

 

TBH I was mostly impressed that he had even checked, mind you for what they charge us I would expect everything to be taken apart.

We had a new fuseboard fitted (as having retired I am no longer allowed to do without getting it certified) this involved testing every circuit as I wanted cert as well. Most of the sockets and light fittings were hanging loose as we were decorating at the time, even so it took him most of the day.

Cost was £160 which is the same as it would have cost me if I had done it to get my work verified by the council. :)

 

 

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My wiring must be a technical nightmare, I don't use ferrules, I just use whatever connectors I have available that seem right. But they must be ok because in 16 years of owning the boat nothing major has gone wrong and my original connections are still working fine. I did notice my smartgauge cut out last week as a result of me rummaging around by the batteries, but I think it might have been a fuse holder that's a bit loose inside.

 

Anyway, back on topic, if the boat doesn't have a RCD just fit one. About 30 quid for this combined unit inc MCB. 😋

 

image.png.0b6ddc3b65d680e65defffed5de6373c.png

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21 minutes ago, Loddon said:

We had a new fuseboard fitted (as having retired I am no longer allowed to do without getting it certified) this involved testing every circuit as I wanted cert as well. Most of the sockets and light fittings were hanging loose as we were decorating at the time, even so it took him most of the day.

Cost was £160 which is the same as it would have cost me if I had done it to get my work verified by the council. :)

 

 

 

Ha, six and two threes.  In my case two guys were in residence for two days which is a lot of money at todays rates.  Doubtless you know, but they said they hate these jobs because in the end there's usually nothing to show for it, just a certificate. 

 

Got to say it's one of the many things that is killing the small trader, fire safety is another.  It's ok for the big boys that can absorb these costs but sometimes you look at the books and think we are supposed to be making a profit here...

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  • 4 months later...
On 15/09/2021 at 16:03, dreadnought said:

hi all,a friend of mine is going to sell her 2018 widebeam, she fitted it out herself and is a live aboard,after having a word with the local broker she was told that before it can be sold it would have to be inspected and have an RCD certificate and the price of this is nearly three grand,does this sound right? many thanks

I wonder how this wide beam on Facebook will get on with its RCD status as its not completed yet (1) Widebeam Canal Boat Group | Facebook

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On 15/09/2021 at 18:38, Alan de Enfield said:

The RCD now means that the boat has to remain compliant for the life of the boat so the 5-year rule is not quite as simple as it used to be, and the builder becomes liable for any injusry / death 'caused by the boat'.

 

I wonder if that nice Mr Jacob Rees-Mogg in his new rôle as "Minister for Brexit Opportunities" * will get rid of this stupidity. 

 

I do hope so because so far, no-one has succeeded in identifying one single benefit to the UK of us leaving the EU, AFAIK.

 

 

 

* That new rôle sure strikes me as a poison chalice if ever I saw one... 

 

 

 

Edited by MtB
Speeling.
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We did a trade deal with Australia - I don't know that there is anything they want from us (I don't think they even take our convicts now), but we can buy stuff from them and fly it halfway round the workd.

 

Tam

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8 hours ago, MtB said:

 

I wonder if that nice Mr Jacob Rees-Mogg in his new rôle as "Minister for Brexit Opportunities" * will get rid of this stupidity. 

 

I do hope so because so far, no-one has succeeded in identifying one single benefit to the UK of us leaving the EU, AFAIK.

 

 

 

* That new rôle sure strikes me as a poison chalice if ever I saw one... 

 

 

 

You don't think he is actually going to do any work for that extra £35k a year do you, asking Sun readers which rules he should be looking at removing shows the level of the present Cabinets mentality.

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5 minutes ago, matty40s said:

You don't think he is actually going to do any work for that extra £35k a year do you, asking Sun readers which rules he should be looking at removing shows the level of the present Cabinets mentality.

 

 

Yes I saw that too. I was tempted to click the link and suggest the EU red diesel duty fiasco and remind him about the Dunkirk Little Ships/Churchill commitment reputed to have been given.

 

But being cynical I decided he would either not see it or would find it all too much bother so I made myself another coffee instead. 

 

 

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7 minutes ago, matty40s said:

In quite enjoyed the Russian foreign ministers succinct and honest view of Ms Truss capabilities yesterday.

 

 

Yes me too.

 

The danger of Ms Truss becoming the next PM is the reason we need to hang on to Boris for a little while longer, and keep him tamed and in post. 

 

Someone must be being trained up for the task in the background. Sunak probably.

 

 

 

Edited by MtB
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7 hours ago, MtB said:

 

 

Yes I saw that too. I was tempted to click the link and suggest the EU red diesel duty fiasco and remind him about the Dunkirk Little Ships/Churchill commitment reputed to have been given.

 

But being cynical I decided he would either not see it or would find it all too much bother so I made myself another coffee instead. 

 

 

I do hope it was a British cup of coffee, rather than one of those Americanos. I mean, we do have Yorkshire tea.

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