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Combination Microwave


deckhand

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On 13/09/2021 at 23:35, deckhand said:

Dos anyone use a Combination Microwave instead of a conventional cooker?  I know its electric but im reading its more efficient. Any feedback welcome

 

Opening out the discussion, consumers get terribly hung up on this "efficiency" thing, thinking it must be a Good Thing without really understanding what is meant by the term.

 

Firstly "more efficient" is a relative term so the first question you have to ask "more efficient than what?" OK the answer here is "more efficient than a conventional cooker", but is this notional cooker a gas cooker, or an electric cooker? More efficient than the hob rings or more efficient than just the oven? How much more efficient?

 

The answer is probably the oven inside an electric cooker. So setting aside the massive inefficiency in generating the leccy to run an oven in a boat, yes the combination microwave is probably more efficient in that it might use a bit less electricity to roast a chicken than a conventional oven. The conventional oven will use about 1.5kW whilst on, for perhaps 60 mins, so a total of 1.5kwhr of electricity. The microwave might roast the chicken in half an hour and be using 2.5kW whilst doing it, so 1.25kWhr of energy for the same task. 

 

But the misleading point here is that using a gas oven in a boat is massively more "efficient" as you won't need to burn a load diesel to make the leccy at about 10% efficiency in the first place. 

 

All this is set aside if you are in a marina with shore power! 

 

 

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10 hours ago, George and Dragon said:

Can I divert the topic slightly? I have a microwave in the house which appers to offer various power levels but these are achieved by altering the time the cooker is cooking (duty cycle). Do all microwaves work like this or is there another way of reducing the output power?

Microwave ovens used to work this way and many still do. However there is a new breed called “inverter microwaves” that send continuous power at the chosen setting eg 50% or whatever. “New” as in since about 2009.

Edited by nicknorman
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49 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

Opening out the discussion, consumers get terribly hung up on this "efficiency" thing, thinking it must be a Good Thing without really understanding what is meant by the term.

 

Firstly "more efficient" is a relative term so the first question you have to ask "more efficient than what?" OK the answer here is "more efficient than a conventional cooker", but is this notional cooker a gas cooker, or an electric cooker? More efficient than the hob rings or more efficient than just the oven? How much more efficient?

 

The answer is probably the oven inside an electric cooker. So setting aside the massive inefficiency in generating the leccy to run an oven in a boat, yes the combination microwave is probably more efficient in that it might use a bit less electricity to roast a chicken than a conventional oven. The conventional oven will use about 1.5kW whilst on, for perhaps 60 mins, so a total of 1.5kwhr of electricity. The microwave might roast the chicken in half an hour and be using 2.5kW whilst doing it, so 1.25kWhr of energy for the same task. 

 

But the misleading point here is that using a gas oven in a boat is massively more "efficient" as you won't need to burn a load diesel to make the leccy at about 10% efficiency in the first place. 

 

All this is set aside if you are in a marina with shore power! 

 

 

As MtB says, it all depends...

 

It's not guaranteed that a combo microwave uses less power than a conventional oven either, it depends on how well insulated they both are -- and also many electric ovens are fan ovens which reduces the energy use because you can cook at a lower temperature. Either way, cooking the chicken is going to use a lot of energy -- and if this comes from running the diesel to recharge the batteries the efficiency of this will be well below 10% by the time you account for alternator losses -- maybe 7% with big externally-controlled alternators, closer to 5% with more normal-sized ones, which is truly terrible. A gas oven is probably at least 10x more "efficient" (but an occasional cooked chicken isn't going to save the planet) and will be cheaper, even though gas costs a lot more per kWh than diesel.

 

The numbers change if you have a hybrid boat which already has a big battery bank and inverter and a (25% efficient) generator, which is why most of them use electric ovens (and are often "gas-free") -- also much better to cook with if that matters to you. In this case there's no real point having a combi microwave, this just makes them much more of a pain to clean than a straight microwave.

 

A straight microwave is a useful (but by no means essential) addition to a boat if you've already got a big enough inverter and batteries to drive it (and space to fit it), but more for things which don't take much time and energy (defrosting frozen stuff, reheating things, cooking vegetables) than any long-term cooking tasks -- if they only run for a few minutes the energy use isn't very big. Combis don't make sense -- in fact they don't really on land either, unless you're in a bedsit with no oven in which case they're useful.

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On 13/09/2021 at 23:35, deckhand said:

Dos anyone use a Combination Microwave instead of a conventional cooker

 

Opening out the discussion even further, can you say, boil the spuds and sprouts in a combination microwave? 

 

Or even boil a kettle?

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1 hour ago, MtB said:

 

Opening out the discussion even further, can you say, boil the spuds and sprouts in a combination microwave? 

 

Or even boil a kettle?

 

You don't 'boil' vegetables in a microwave. You microwave vegetables without using water thus the nutrient loss is less.

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14 minutes ago, Tim Lewis said:

 

You don't 'boil' vegetables in a microwave. You microwave vegetables without using water thus the nutrient loss is less.

 

I suspect microwaving the spuds in preparation for mashing involves some very fine judgements regarding power and time then. 

 

Boiling on a hob until cooked seems far simpler. 

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18 minutes ago, Tim Lewis said:

 

You don't 'boil' vegetables in a microwave. You microwave vegetables without using water thus the nutrient loss is less.

Usually you add a little water so they steam. It's an excellent way of cooking vegetables especially green ones, no flavour or nutrients lost into the water.

Edited by IanD
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6 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

I suspect microwaving the spuds in preparation for mashing involves some very fine judgements regarding power and time then. 

 

Boiling on a hob until cooked seems far simpler. 

Microwaving spuds is also easy, if you weigh them then for many microwaves you just dial up the weight, no need to time or watch them or keep testing them -- and if you're bothered, much lower energy use than a pan of boiling water 😉

 

A microwave really does have some advantages over "traditional" cooking methods for some things but not all. If you don't want to have one or don't have space or power, then don't, nobody's forcing you to adopt any technology from the last fifty years or so if you don't want to. Except of course the ones that let you read this forum...

 

Edited by IanD
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6 hours ago, MtB said:

 

Opening out the discussion, consumers get terribly hung up on this "efficiency" thing, thinking it must be a Good Thing without really understanding what is meant by the term.

 

Firstly "more efficient" is a relative term so the first question you have to ask "more efficient than what?" OK the answer here is "more efficient than a conventional cooker", but is this notional cooker a gas cooker, or an electric cooker? More efficient than the hob rings or more efficient than just the oven? How much more efficient?

 

The answer is probably the oven inside an electric cooker. So setting aside the massive inefficiency in generating the leccy to run an oven in a boat, yes the combination microwave is probably more efficient in that it might use a bit less electricity to roast a chicken than a conventional oven. The conventional oven will use about 1.5kW whilst on, for perhaps 60 mins, so a total of 1.5kwhr of electricity. The microwave might roast the chicken in half an hour and be using 2.5kW whilst doing it, so 1.25kWhr of energy for the same task. 

 

But the misleading point here is that using a gas oven in a boat is massively more "efficient" as you won't need to burn a load diesel to make the leccy at about 10% efficiency in the first place. 

 

All this is set aside if you are in a marina with shore power! 

 

 

 

5 hours ago, IanD said:

As MtB says, it all depends...

 

It's not guaranteed that a combo microwave uses less power than a conventional oven either, it depends on how well insulated they both are -- and also many electric ovens are fan ovens which reduces the energy use because you can cook at a lower temperature. Either way, cooking the chicken is going to use a lot of energy -- and if this comes from running the diesel to recharge the batteries the efficiency of this will be well below 10% by the time you account for alternator losses -- maybe 7% with big externally-controlled alternators, closer to 5% with more normal-sized ones, which is truly terrible. A gas oven is probably at least 10x more "efficient" (but an occasional cooked chicken isn't going to save the planet) and will be cheaper, even though gas costs a lot more per kWh than diesel.

 

The numbers change if you have a hybrid boat which already has a big battery bank and inverter and a (25% efficient) generator, which is why most of them use electric ovens (and are often "gas-free") -- also much better to cook with if that matters to you. In this case there's no real point having a combi microwave, this just makes them much more of a pain to clean than a straight microwave.

 

A straight microwave is a useful (but by no means essential) addition to a boat if you've already got a big enough inverter and batteries to drive it (and space to fit it), but more for things which don't take much time and energy (defrosting frozen stuff, reheating things, cooking vegetables) than any long-term cooking tasks -- if they only run for a few minutes the energy use isn't very big. Combis don't make sense -- in fact they don't really on land either, unless you're in a bedsit with no oven in which case they're useful.

 

So best to build a fire on the towpath and roast the chicken on that then?🤔😂😂

Edited by cuthound
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1 minute ago, MtB said:

 

Or even better, get a KFC takeaway.

 

 

 

The crack cocaine of fast food. That said I haven't had a KFC in years.

 

Back in the early 70's I used to drive from Epsom to Kings Cross to get a KFC because that was the nearest one.

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1 hour ago, cuthound said:

 

The crack cocaine of fast food. That said I haven't had a KFC in years.

 

Back in the early 70's I used to drive from Epsom to Kings Cross to get a KFC because that was the nearest one.

Would never eat a KFC, very poor value. Ready cooked chickens from Morrisons, about £4.55 I think. No mess, no cost to heat, dependable and the extra tasty ones are scrummy.

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15 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Would never eat a KFC, very poor value. Ready cooked chickens from Morrisons, about £4.55 I think. No mess, no cost to heat, dependable and the extra tasty ones are scrummy.

 

You should try it at least once.

 

The coating is unique, totally different flavour to any other chicken I have tasted.

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Bought my Morphy richards combi a week after the boat in 2008, brilliant bit of kit, and doesnt kill the batteries like I thought might when I started to CC. Great for spuds, crunchy fresh veg, rice, beans, and any convenience meals when it's just too late to stick the oven on.

Struggling to find some space for it in the new layout galley, but I have a cunning plan....

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4 minutes ago, matty40s said:

Bought my Morphy richards combi a week after the boat in 2008, brilliant bit of kit, and doesnt kill the batteries like I thought might when I started to CC. Great for spuds, crunchy fresh veg, rice, beans, and any convenience meals when it's just too late to stick the oven on.

Struggling to find some space for it in the new layout galley, but I have a cunning plan....

Aren't most of the things you mentioned microwave only, not combi (oven/grill)?

16 minutes ago, cuthound said:

 

You should try it at least once.

 

The coating is unique, totally different flavour to any other chicken I have tasted.

Do you mean KFC or Morrisons "extra tasty"?

 

The KFC recipe is all over the internet and many other fried chicken shops use it to please punters who are hooked on the KFC drug...

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19 minutes ago, IanD said:

Aren't most of the things you mentioned microwave only, not combi (oven/grill)?

 

The jackets crisp up nicely when using the combi, lasagne and other cheese topped meals brown off better when using it, I have used it for other stuff but lost the instruction book many moons ago...

 

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