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Number 9

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Hi, We are planning our new build after many years of holiday renting, it is to live on as ccr's when we retire in a couple of years, a used boat, though a cheaper option and better value is not really suited to us as my practical skills are close to zero, and the difference in the price of new versus 2/3 year old boat makes having the layout exactly as you wish worth the extra.

We intend having a 61' semi cruiser with standard layout,  bedroom with extendable bed, walkthrough bathroom, galley kitchen pullman dinette  with twin side hatches, and wide as possible bow doors with a sliding hatch above.  

Any comments and advice would be greatly appreciated. The 61 foot is to get maximum space whilst still being able to cruise all bar the calder and hebble and the huddersfield wide if I have my information correct.

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Maximum space but a semi trad?  Could I suggest a trad with a large double rear hatch, small one on a big one?  More cabin space but still possible for crew gathering?  I find the semi trad bit to be fairly useless, not secure, uncomfortable seating, rust trap and the steerer still out in the rain.

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3 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Maximum space but a semi trad?  Could I suggest a trad with a large double rear hatch, small one on a big one?  More cabin space but still possible for crew gathering?  I find the semi trad bit to be fairly useless, not secure, uncomfortable seating, rust trap and the steerer still out in the rain.

 

Got to agree there - semi is the worst of both worlds IMHO.  The big advantage of a cruiser is not the party size stern deck which is a waste of space, it's the ease of getting on and off especially if you have any mobility issues and/or have dogs.  I had two old dogs on our trad that needed lifting on and off the boat and a cruiser stern would have solved the problem but not a semi trad.  

 

61' might just do the Leeds Liverpool but with the state of many of the lock gates you stand a fair chance of getting wet with a boat that size.  

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As above I would go for the trad stern, otherwise you will always have a wet oily engine bay, not nice, and with a trad, you service it in the dry during the winter. Regarding the bathroom, do you really want a walkthrough, they give you more space but how much time really do you spend in it. Having the bathroom to one side allows people to pass through the boat, even when someone is indisposed as will occasionally happen if you have a bad curry.

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6 minutes ago, Goliath said:

Am I missing summat?

Isn’t 61ft an odd size to choose?

A foot shorter and you could do those canals. 


Why 61ft?


 

I understood 57 was maximum on the calder and hebble but 61 maximumwould get us along the leeds liverpool, I am happy to be corrected

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1 minute ago, Number 9 said:

I understood 57 was maximum on the calder and hebble but 61 maximumwould get us along the leeds liverpool, I am happy to be corrected

 

They say 62 foot is actually the max but as I say, the state of the locks these days I personally would want a bit of wriggle room.

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Phil. said:

As above I would go for the trad stern, otherwise you will always have a wet oily engine bay, not nice, and with a trad, you service it in the dry during the winter. Regarding the bathroom, do you really want a walkthrough, they give you more space but how much time really do you spend in it. Having the bathroom to one side allows people to pass through the boat, even when someone is indisposed as will occasionally happen if you have a bad curry.

Agree with the bathroom, it is still open to change, the semi was to enable us both to perch on the side of the rear doors whilst cruising and looking forward, a pram hood, though a little ugly will allow for taking off wet clothes and protect the engine bay

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Walk though bathrooms are one of those things that seem to make a lot of sense (space-wise) but don't in practice.  

 

Honestly, a 57 foot trad makes so much sense up north, for the sake of three feet you can do all the canals both ways.  

 

And you'll look like a proper boater, you won't with one of those silly pram cover things on a semi trad.

 

Folk will tell you the C&H and the Huddersfield wide  can be done with 60 foot but why have the anxiety.

 

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, Neil2 said:

Walk though bathrooms are one of those things that seem to make a lot of sense (space-wise) but don't in practice.  

 

Honestly, a 57 foot trad makes so much sense up north, for the sake of three feet you can do all the canals both ways.  

 

And you'll look like a proper boater, you won't with one of those silly pram cover things on a semi trad.

 

Folk will tell you the C&H and the Huddersfield wide  can be done with 60 foot but why have the anxiety.

 

 

 

 

The pram cover comment made me laugh, I agree with you regarding the silly looks and am still undecided on one. Wasn't planning on doing the calder and hebble as I thought I could go round the leeds liverpool and down the trent, so a 61 gives me 4 foot of extra space and longer and the wigan flight would prove difficult i think

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43 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Maximum space but a semi trad?  Could I suggest a trad with a large double rear hatch, small one on a big one?  More cabin space but still possible for crew gathering?  I find the semi trad bit to be fairly useless, not secure, uncomfortable seating, rust trap and the steerer still out in the rain.

large rear hatch is a good idea, just that we have been able to choose which end to sit out at with  semi, the stern isn,t the most comfortable though depending on the tumblehome

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2 minutes ago, Number 9 said:

The pram cover comment made me laugh, I agree with you regarding the silly looks and am still undecided on one. Wasn't planning on doing the calder and hebble as I thought I could go round the leeds liverpool and down the trent, so a 61 gives me 4 foot of extra space and longer and the wigan flight would prove difficult i think

 

The shortest locks on the Leeds and Liverpool are the 5 rise at Bingley. Istr the 3 rise is the same.

 

Our boat was 60ft and it was a squeeze and needed us to jiggle past the gates.

 

The other issue was the amount of water you get from leaky gates onto the counter going down in lots of the locks, a good bilge pump is essential.

 

I would loose the extra foot and go 60 max. or actually even less. 

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I've recently noticed a number of very tall pram hoods and believe these are unkindly known as Toilet tents. You could get one of those instead of the walk through bathroom 😀

 

Liveaboard boats: 57 or 70 foot, Trad Stern, bit of extra sitting out space on the well deck, absolutely not a walk through bathroom, space for freestanding furniture.

and of course a back cabin and engine room 😀

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Off the top - 'cos it's supper time and I'll be summoned soon -

With a standard layout and a generous front deck you have a lot of space in which to move around and with a cratch cover in all seasons as well.

Keep the 'services' engine / kitchen/ ablutions/ together and  you'll make better use of space. (It's not what we'ver got - but if starting again....

 

 'only and idiot' if you don't sift the suggestions and ignore all the 'advice' . get a piece of paper and shetch the layout to some sor of scale .

OTOH look at some of the boats on sale through the established brokers and see what sort of layouts other folks have used - and what space they have made use of (or not...)

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1 hour ago, Phil. said:

As above I would go for the trad stern, otherwise you will always have a wet oily engine bay, not nice, and with a trad, you service it in the dry during the winter. Regarding the bathroom, do you really want a walkthrough, they give you more space but how much time really do you spend in it. Having the bathroom to one side allows people to pass through the boat, even when someone is indisposed as will occasionally happen if you have a bad curry.

 

Disagree about the trad stern but it's probably a matter of taste more than anything: there are pros and cons to any stern design,

I wholeheartedly agree about the walk-through bathroom. Our first boat had one. It's not unknown for some idiot to forget to unlock both doors after using a Jack & Jill affair. You don't need full width for a shower (over a hip bath), a sink and a bog.

 

 

 

 

 

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For what its worth, Id go with a Trad but put the walkthrough bathroom up at the back end. Cant beat them for space.

Handy for stripping off wet weather gear (presuming you boat all weathers) and allows access to all the other cabins when in use.

The other main advantage is when you drop one you have the engine doors to divert any lingering odours out of as well 😃

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When we built our boat, three others all 58ft, were being built at the same time.  One was very spacious and one was very cramped. We had so much storage we never used it all. Look at as many boats as possible and choose a design you like. Bare in mind nearly new boats are sold often because someone got the design wrong. Price may be dictated by the size of the steel sheets. We bought a second hand boat with the design we thought we wanted and did some modifications with our new boat. Your third boat will be right for you 

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1 hour ago, Number 9 said:

I understood 57 was maximum on the calder and hebble but 61 maximumwould get us along the leeds liverpool, I am happy to be corrected

Calder and Hebble is officially 57ft 6ins, but narrowboats up to 60ft can get through, although you will need to lift fenders etc. 59ft would give you a bit more flexibility while maximising length.

http://www.penninewaterways.co.uk/calder/locks.htm

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2 hours ago, Number 9 said:

The pram cover comment made me laugh, I agree with you regarding the silly looks and am still undecided on one. Wasn't planning on doing the calder and hebble as I thought I could go round the leeds liverpool and down the trent, so a 61 gives me 4 foot of extra space and longer and the wigan flight would prove difficult i think

 

Glad to hear you have a sense of humour - you'll fit right in here!

 

 

2 hours ago, dmr said:

I've recently noticed a number of very tall pram hoods and believe these are unkindly known as Toilet tents. You could get one of those instead of the walk through bathroom 😀

 

Liveaboard boats: 57 or 70 foot, Trad Stern, bit of extra sitting out space on the well deck, absolutely not a walk through bathroom, space for freestanding furniture.

and of course a back cabin and engine room 😀

 

Yeah, I'd go with that, if you eschew the Pennine crossings you may as well have the extra room.  You can still do the Rochdale and the HNC in a long boat just have to turn round at the end.  

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9 minutes ago, Neil2 said:

 

 

Yeah, I'd go with that, if you eschew the Pennine crossings you may as well have the extra room.  You can still do the Rochdale and the HNC in a long boat just have to turn round at the end.  

 

You can even do the first mile or so of the Calder and Hebble in a 70 footer, and go into Salter Hebble top lock. You cannot however then get the gates closed 😀.

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1 hour ago, PaulJ said:

>> walkthrough bathroom up at the back end. Cant beat them for space.

Handy for stripping off wet weather gear (presuming you boat all weathers) and allows access to all the other cabins when in use.<<

 

Good point, but I've never seen one.

Still a PITA if one of the doors is left locked though.

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A big advantage of a cruiser stern is that it becomes an outside terrace when moored up. Those cheap fold up chairs are immeasurably more comfortable then the bench seats on a semi trad. And you are not severed from the water and waterborne life, and even shore borne life to the extent those extended cabin sides do on a semi trad.

The big disadvantage is when boating in severely inclement weather, the helm is severly exposed. Time to just moor up, unlike a hirer you are not under anywhere near the same time constraints.

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