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Any idea why my engines won't run ?


Alan de Enfield

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The back story :

 

Coming over Caernarfon Bar (drys out completely) one engine stopped, went to investigate and found other engine was in a 'steam room' (steam coming up thru the floor and carpet) switched this engine off.

 

Now drifting in 9 feet of water on a rapidly falling tide and we draw almost 6 feet.

 

The first time in 40+ years of boating we called the lifeboat for a tow - they were busy on another 'shout' on the North of Anglesey and would be commiutted for several hours, they suggested we get a tow from a passing boat into deep water, anchor up and wait for them to become free.

 

We had now drifted about a mile from the channel and getting into shallow(er) waters when we saw a boat about a mile away , so fired off a red flare. fortunately they saw us and slowly tip-toed  into the shallows and agreed to tow us about 3 miles out to see until we were in 20+ feet of water.

 

Informed the Coastguard & Lifeboat we were now 'safe' and would await their rescue - they suggested that if we saw another boat we try to get them to 'tow us home' as they may not get to us at all.

 

About 15:00 hours Called a friend up at the marina who said he would organise a rescue using another guys Rib and he would be with us at ~ 20:30 as that is the earliest they could get to us as the water was so low, and, they could not tow us back until the tide turned and we were going with the tide (the tide was running at 5.6 knots (almost 7 mph).

 

Found that we had several feet of water under the floor and spent the next 4 hours pumping out.

 

Arrived at 20:30 and we started the tow, arriving back at the marina at 23:30, but could not get into the marina as the lock-gates wwre broken (its not just C&RT) and inoperable so we were left on a swinging mooring for the night. By this time the dog had been sat crossed legs for 16 hours so we took the tender (2HP engine) the half-mile to 'land'.

Just as we hit the shore a terrific electrical storm started (probably the biggest and brightest I've ever see) closely followed by rain  / hail of 'biblical proportions'.

 

Called the Coastguard / Lifeboat and told then we were safely on a mooring and they could 'close' the emergency. Got a rollicking about letting off the flare as they had been getting 999 calls, but did not make any suggestion as to how we should attract the attention of a boat a mile away.

 

Back to the boat and settled down for a 'stormy night'.

 

Marina staff came out with their 'tug' next afternoon and took us into the marina.  

 

Finished pumping out and drying out and investigating the problems.

 

Over the last 2-days - long story short.

Hose on heat-exchanger had come adrift and the sea-water pump was filling the boat at the rate of 3 litres per second, hull had flooded and it appears that the inspection hatch on the fuel tank was loose and water had got into the tank.

 

According to the fuel gauge we had set out with 3/4 full 'main tank' on return we had a 7/8 full main tank so I reckon we took about  200 litres into the fuel tank (1000 litre tank)

 

Have a fuel transfer pump on order (Delivery Wednesday), a couple of IBC containers due for delivery Monday, and a fellow moorer who has a 'fuel polishing' system coming Monday. 

I have about a dozen fuel filters already on board so hopefully we'll be up and running again by mid-week.

 

 

 

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

The back story :

 

Coming over Caernarfon Bar (drys out completely) one engine stopped, went to investigate and found other engine was in a 'steam room' (steam coming up thru the floor and carpet) switched this engine off.

 

Now drifting in 9 feet of water on a rapidly falling tide and we draw almost 6 feet.

 

The first time in 40+ years of boating we called the lifeboat for a tow - they were busy on another 'shout' on the North of Anglesey and would be commiutted for several hours, they suggested we get a tow from a passing boat into deep water, anchor up and wait for them to become free.

 

We had now drifted about a mile from the channel and getting into shallow(er) waters when we saw a boat about a mile away , so fired off a red flare. fortunately they saw us and slowly tip-toed  into the shallows and agreed to tow us about 3 miles out to see until we were in 20+ feet of water.

 

Informed the Coastguard & Lifeboat we were now 'safe' and would await their rescue - they suggested that if we saw another boat we try to get them to 'tow us home' as they may not get to us at all.

 

About 15:00 hours Called a friend up at the marina who said he would organise a rescue using another guys Rib and he would be with us at ~ 20:30 as that is the earliest they could get to us as the water was so low, and, they could not tow us back until the tide turned and we were going with the tide (the tide was running at 5.6 knots (almost 7 mph).

 

Found that we had several feet of water under the floor and spent the next 4 hours pumping out.

 

Arrived at 20:30 and we started the tow, arriving back at the marina at 23:30, but could not get into the marina as the lock-gates wwre broken (its not just C&RT) and inoperable so we were left on a swinging mooring for the night. By this time the dog had been sat crossed legs for 16 hours so we took the tender (2HP engine) the half-mile to 'land'.

Just as we hit the shore a terrific electrical storm started (probably the biggest and brightest I've ever see) closely followed by rain  / hail of 'biblical proportions'.

 

Called the Coastguard / Lifeboat and told then we were safely on a mooring and they could 'close' the emergency. Got a rollicking about letting off the flare as they had been getting 999 calls, but did not make any suggestion as to how we should attract the attention of a boat a mile away.

 

Back to the boat and settled down for a 'stormy night'.

 

Marina staff came out with their 'tug' next afternoon and took us into the marina.  

 

Finished pumping out and drying out and investigating the problems.

 

Over the last 2-days - long story short.

Hose on heat-exchanger had come adrift and the sea-water pump was filling the boat at the rate of 3 litres per second, hull had flooded and it appears that the inspection hatch on the fuel tank was loose and water had got into the tank.

 

According to the fuel gauge we had set out with 3/4 full 'main tank' on return we had a 7/8 full main tank so I reckon we took about  200 litres into the fuel tank (1000 litre tank)

 

Have a fuel transfer pump on order (Delivery Wednesday), a couple of IBC containers due for delivery Monday, and a fellow moorer who has a 'fuel polishing' system coming Monday. 

I have about a dozen fuel filters already on board so hopefully we'll be up and running again by mid-week.

 

 

 

 

Genuine question because I'm not a lumpy water boater nor a marine VHF user.

 

Rather than shoot a flare could you not have hailed the other boat on the radio for a tow?

Edited by The Happy Nomad
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5 minutes ago, The Happy Nomad said:

 

Genuine question because I'm not a lumpy water boater nor a marine VHF user.

 

Rather than shoot a flare could you not have hailed the other boat on the radio for a tow?

 

 

Fair question.

 

Without knowng the name or call-sign of the other boat (and it was a good mile away) it is not easy to call them, added to the fact that it was a noisy, bouncy rubber boat (RIB) with 6 semi naked 'young males' and one female, screaming along at 30mph+ with a 200hp outboard engine at pretty much 'full-chat' after a day of do-nutting and having fun I doubt they would have the radio switched on, or would hear it if it was 'on'.

 

The only possible way would have been to make a Pan-Pan* call and request any boats in the vicinity of postion XX.XX.XX N and XX XX XX W to respond /assist.

 

The coastguard instructed us to 'wave down' a passing boat and get a tow, this was the only boat that passed us in about 8 hours. Using the flare may have been 'wrong' but as the saying goes "I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6"

 

The instructions / training courses state that :

 

 

Red handheld flares:

Use as a line of sight distress signal by day and night.
Hold with arms outstretched.
Point downwind.
Don’t look at flare.
Lasts approx 1 minute.

Distress flares - which flare, how & when to use?

 

I'm not sure how else you make contact with an unknown vessel 'on the horizon'.

 

 

 

 

One popular emergency call is the Pan-pan, derived from the French word “panne" that means “a breakdown". It indicates an urgent situation such as a mechanical failure or a medical problem. A Pan-pan call is generally of a notch lower than a Mayday in terms of threat

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49 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Yes Alan ------ but who fitted the hose?

 

Dunno - guess the man that installed the engines.

 

Pretty poor design to be honest - a smooth rubber 'boot' going onto a smooth cylinder (no swaging or 'fir-trees') held by a Jubilee clip.

 

Don't know if you can pick it out, but there are 2 vertical cylinders, the one furthest away is the one that the hose / boot had blown off, you can just see the 'black' inside of  the rubber boot and the 'white' of the clyinder that was covered by the hose / boot.

The hose is the output side of the sea-water pump which is pumping out at just under 3 litres per second - you can image the engine room was pretty well 'damped down'. The main fuel tank (1000 litres) is under the 'duck-boards' with wing-tanks on the outside of each engine.

 

 

 

 

 

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47 minutes ago, bizzard said:

If this was the catamaran Alan why didn't you sail it to safety, or be sailing it anyway. :)

 

If only it had been - It wasn't the Cat - it was the motor cruiser.

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I realise it's not an option for most sea going boats with big engines, but we tend to hear quite a few stories about failures of raw water cooling systems so I'm glad I have closed loop keel cooling.

 

I think that well-known RNLI video on YouTube of a Dutch barge being towed off the south coast in rough seas was due to a similar cooling hose issue. It happens so often it does seem like an Achilles heel of raw water cooling.

 

If a hose comes adrift on a keel cooled boat the engine will overheat and have to be switched off, but at least you don't get a boat full of water. As I said, I know it's not an option for many bigger seagoing boats.

Edited by blackrose
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FWIW I am shocked at the attitude of the Coastguard, presumably at that stage you could not be totally certain how/why you were taking on water?  I think you did exactly the right thing with the flare.  

 

My brother in law used to be in the Coastguard service but he left, along with several others because, in his words, "the new chief was a complete twat".  I wonder if this is a trend.

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2 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

Fair question.

 

Without knowng the name or call-sign of the other boat (and it was a good mile away) it is not easy to call them, added to the fact that it was a noisy, bouncy rubber boat (RIB) with 6 semi naked 'young males' and one female, screaming along at 30mph+ with a 200hp outboard engine at pretty much 'full-chat' after a day of do-nutting and having fun I doubt they would have the radio switched on, or would hear it if it was 'on'.

 

The only possible way would have been to make a Pan-Pan* call and request any boats in the vicinity of postion XX.XX.XX N and XX XX XX W to respond /assist.

 

The coastguard instructed us to 'wave down' a passing boat and get a tow, this was the only boat that passed us in about 8 hours. Using the flare may have been 'wrong' but as the saying goes "I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6"

 

The instructions / training courses state that :

 

 

Red handheld flares:

Use as a line of sight distress signal by day and night.
Hold with arms outstretched.
Point downwind.
Don’t look at flare.
Lasts approx 1 minute.

Distress flares - which flare, how & when to use?

 

I'm not sure how else you make contact with an unknown vessel 'on the horizon'.

 

 

 

 

One popular emergency call is the Pan-pan, derived from the French word “panne" that means “a breakdown". It indicates an urgent situation such as a mechanical failure or a medical problem. A Pan-pan call is generally of a notch lower than a Mayday in terms of threat

But if you hadn't used the flare how long would it have been before it was a mayday?

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The notion of calling the RNLI and been told "sorry, we are busy" is very sobering.

 

Its nowhere like Alans adventure but last week we rescued a hire boat aground on the upper Thames. They had phoned the hire company who said "sorry we can't help".

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4 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

The back story :

 

Coming over Caernarfon Bar (drys out completely) one engine stopped, went to investigate and found other engine was in a 'steam room' (steam coming up thru the floor and carpet) switched this engine off.

 

Now drifting in 9 feet of water on a rapidly falling tide and we draw almost 6 feet.

 

The first time in 40+ years of boating we called the lifeboat for a tow - they were busy on another 'shout' on the North of Anglesey and would be commiutted for several hours, they suggested we get a tow from a passing boat into deep water, anchor up and wait for them to become free.

 

We had now drifted about a mile from the channel and getting into shallow(er) waters when we saw a boat about a mile away , so fired off a red flare. fortunately they saw us and slowly tip-toed  into the shallows and agreed to tow us about 3 miles out to see until we were in 20+ feet of water.

 

Informed the Coastguard & Lifeboat we were now 'safe' and would await their rescue - they suggested that if we saw another boat we try to get them to 'tow us home' as they may not get to us at all.

 

About 15:00 hours Called a friend up at the marina who said he would organise a rescue using another guys Rib and he would be with us at ~ 20:30 as that is the earliest they could get to us as the water was so low, and, they could not tow us back until the tide turned and we were going with the tide (the tide was running at 5.6 knots (almost 7 mph).

 

Found that we had several feet of water under the floor and spent the next 4 hours pumping out.

 

Arrived at 20:30 and we started the tow, arriving back at the marina at 23:30, but could not get into the marina as the lock-gates wwre broken (its not just C&RT) and inoperable so we were left on a swinging mooring for the night. By this time the dog had been sat crossed legs for 16 hours so we took the tender (2HP engine) the half-mile to 'land'.

Just as we hit the shore a terrific electrical storm started (probably the biggest and brightest I've ever see) closely followed by rain  / hail of 'biblical proportions'.

 

Called the Coastguard / Lifeboat and told then we were safely on a mooring and they could 'close' the emergency. Got a rollicking about letting off the flare as they had been getting 999 calls, but did not make any suggestion as to how we should attract the attention of a boat a mile away.

 

Back to the boat and settled down for a 'stormy night'.

 

Marina staff came out with their 'tug' next afternoon and took us into the marina.  

 

Finished pumping out and drying out and investigating the problems.

 

Over the last 2-days - long story short.

Hose on heat-exchanger had come adrift and the sea-water pump was filling the boat at the rate of 3 litres per second, hull had flooded and it appears that the inspection hatch on the fuel tank was loose and water had got into the tank.

 

According to the fuel gauge we had set out with 3/4 full 'main tank' on return we had a 7/8 full main tank so I reckon we took about  200 litres into the fuel tank (1000 litre tank)

 

Have a fuel transfer pump on order (Delivery Wednesday), a couple of IBC containers due for delivery Monday, and a fellow moorer who has a 'fuel polishing' system coming Monday. 

I have about a dozen fuel filters already on board so hopefully we'll be up and running again by mid-week.

 

 

 

You could not possibly imagine  all that could happen . What a #hit  day with knobs on !

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9 hours ago, dmr said:

The notion of calling the RNLI and been told "sorry, we are busy" is very sobering.

 

Its nowhere like Alans adventure but last week we rescued a hire boat aground on the upper Thames. They had phoned the hire company who said "sorry we can't help".

There are 4 Lifeboat stations on Anglesey it was the Beaumaris (North East side of the island) that was 'busy'. The Trearddur one is just a small inshore Rib, but could have moved us, the Holyhead one is a BIG "Severn Class", and Moelfre has a BIG "Tamar Class".

 

I guess we were not classed as really needing assistance, but, had we dried out the boat would have tipped over on its side and it could have become a Mayday as the tide came back in.

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That's a horrible situation. Usually there is a 'Plan B' whenever stuff goes wrong but you were running out of plans there. As for fuel these days I open the inspection lid on the fuel tank (Many bolts) and shine a torch in to see what horrors are happening inside at least once a year but that's no guarantee of spotting trouble. Keel cooling has a lot of advantages over heat exchanger cooling but I too have canal water cooling, some boats are very hard to fit keel cooling into. Sometimes things conspire to all happen at the same time ......and then the dog needs a wee.....

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