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Boat builder recommendations needed


Missjd66

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7 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

Bang on. 

 

I've spent today on one boat moored for convenience in the miserable, soul-less environment called Fenny Compton. Marina. Then at dusk I drove to my other boat on an on-line mooring and WHAT a contrast. Owls hooting, no boat bang opposite peering through my portholes, no pontoon with more foot traffic up and down it that you could imagine possible, some actual canal scenery......

 

We should be in Cropredy on Wednesday or Thursday and plan to go down Napton on Saturday if you fancy a bit of non marina boating.

 

OP please note that canal life involves meeting up with other boats and doing a bit of boating/eating/drinking, a huge boat stuck in a marina just misses out on so much of this.

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11 minutes ago, dmr said:

 

We should be in Cropredy on Wednesday or Thursday and plan to go down Napton on Saturday if you fancy a bit of non marina boating.

 

OP please note that canal life involves meeting up with other boats and doing a bit of boating/eating/drinking, a huge boat stuck in a marina just misses out on so much of this.

 

Oh really? I thought you were aiming for Bristol again! 

 

Where to next then? 

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I seriously wouldn’t advise a new built until you know what suits you. It’s all very seductive but it’s often a horribly costly mistake.  why not hire a wider beam boat and try that for several weeks and then a narrowboat and see what suits best. Then move onto a second hand one from someone who’s made that mistake! 
Perhaps If you want a marina life you may be as well to buy a park home by a canal or river, the maintenance cost of a boat even just sitting there builds up, your possession is sitting in water and needs inspections and blacking/ epoxy. Mention boat and the cost of things increases like for like often compared to houses. 
Do visit some marinas have chats with people. It may confuse you at first but you do need to take your time over such a move. 

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Some very sound advice has been given. Assuming you go ahead, a couple of comments to add.

 

1. Have you considered where you want to moor? I suggest looking at a canal map, finding marinas in the area you are interested in and then looking at how far you can go from there with what sized boat. There are compromises to be made on size vs. range, but it sounds like you are less worried about travelling. The one point I would echo is to make sure that you can get your chosen sized boat from its mooring to a boatyard (and that you can also turn it round fairly easily).

 

2. If you are set on starting out with your own boat to your own design, have you considered having a conversion done rather than building from scratch? Try this for example: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Liveaboard-barge-/185042584761?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l6249&mkrid=710-127635-2958-0 (linked from the historic vessels for sale thread). Personally, I wouldn't overplate. I would gut it back to bare metal (not far from where it is anyway), have the hull repaired by letting in plates where needed and get the cabin windows changed to your preference at the same time, along with any other openings needed, and then have it gritblasted and epoxy coated inside and out. At that point, it is effectively as good as a new hull and better than many. Spray foam insulation and you are ready for the fit-out of your choice. The advantages something like this gives are that it swims better being designed for the job, the work needed can be undertaken by a much wider range of boatyards so it doesn't then have the long delay. You could get the work done on the Trent for example and then bring it across by road or water.

 

3. Final comment, building on what has been said above. On the principle of 'try before you buy' I would hire something for a month at Christmas. Boats are more available then so longer hiring periods at favourable prices is an option and it also gives you a sense of winter on the boat, rather than the idyllic summer days. I don't think it overly matters what you hire, or where. The point is to get a sense of the lifestyle and, by comparison, what you do/don't like about the boat you hire which can then inform your own design decisions.

 

Alec

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10 hours ago, MtB said:

 

Oh really? I thought you were aiming for Bristol again! 

 

Where to next then? 

 

We've run out of time.  Made it right up to Inglesham just above Lehclade (that was a tricky bit of winding) and are now heading to Yorkshire (Rochdale summit) for the winter.

 

Estimate just over 20 days of solid boating and need to leave a stoppages safety margin, so need to crack on..

Will likely go the Macclesfield-Peak Forest-Ashton route, stuff you could only dream of in a widebeam 😀

 

 

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Just now, dmr said:

 

We've run out of time.  Made it right up to Inglesham just above Lehclade (that was a tricky bit of winding) and are now heading to Yorkshire (Rochdale summit) for the winter.

 

Estimate just over 20 days of solid boating and need to leave a stoppages safety margin, so need to crack on..

Will likely go the Macclesfield-Peak Forest-Ashton route, stuff you could only dream of in a widebeam 😀

 

 

 

and forgot to add, would love to have a night in Birmingham as the Flapper is open again but don't really have time so will likely take the North Oxford-Coventry route again.

 

Except for the Thames, Rochdale and a tiny bit between Napton and Braunston this is all on narrow canals.

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2 minutes ago, dmr said:

 

and forgot to add, would love to have a night in Birmingham as the Flapper is open again but don't really have time so will likely take the North Oxford-Coventry route again.

 

Except for the Thames, Rochdale and a tiny bit between Napton and Braunston this is all on narrow canals.

 

And I still find it quite a shock to encounter a fattie on that bit. My instant reaction is always "how on earth did that get here?!", then the awful, depressing truth dawns. 

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2 hours ago, agg221 said:

Some very sound advice has been given. Assuming you go ahead, a couple of comments to add.

 

1. Have you considered where you want to moor? I suggest looking at a canal map, finding marinas in the area you are interested in and then looking at how far you can go from there with what sized boat. There are compromises to be made on size vs. range, but it sounds like you are less worried about travelling. The one point I would echo is to make sure that you can get your chosen sized boat from its mooring to a boatyard (and that you can also turn it round fairly easily).

 

2. If you are set on starting out with your own boat to your own design, have you considered having a conversion done rather than building from scratch? Try this for example: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Liveaboard-barge-/185042584761?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l6249&mkrid=710-127635-2958-0 (linked from the historic vessels for sale thread). Personally, I wouldn't overplate. I would gut it back to bare metal (not far from where it is anyway), have the hull repaired by letting in plates where needed and get the cabin windows changed to your preference at the same time, along with any other openings needed, and then have it gritblasted and epoxy coated inside and out. At that point, it is effectively as good as a new hull and better than many. Spray foam insulation and you are ready for the fit-out of your choice. The advantages something like this gives are that it swims better being designed for the job, the work needed can be undertaken by a much wider range of boatyards so it doesn't then have the long delay. You could get the work done on the Trent for example and then bring it across by road or water.

 

3. Final comment, building on what has been said above. On the principle of 'try before you buy' I would hire something for a month at Christmas. Boats are more available then so longer hiring periods at favourable prices is an option and it also gives you a sense of winter on the boat, rather than the idyllic summer days. I don't think it overly matters what you hire, or where. The point is to get a sense of the lifestyle and, by comparison, what you do/don't like about the boat you hire which can then inform your own design decisions.

 

Alec

All very good advice really appreciated. Exactly the type of info we need to consider to help us. Many thanks

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Possible alternative

https://www.aquavista.com/buy-a-floating-home

 

Basically seems to give you want you want without the hastle of boat maintenance and regulations. Also boats will devalue whereas these have the potential to increase in value. Possible team it up with a small boat at some point and you have the best of both worlds. 

 

I retired to a boat but now, due to health issues, need to go shore based. All I have is a depreciated Narrowboat to fund my shore based retirement. With the above option you will have at least held onto or even increased on your capital. 

 

By the way I have no regrets with choosing the Narrowboat life, done it, glad I did now looking at the next chapter. 

 

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2 minutes ago, reg said:

Possible alternative

https://www.aquavista.com/buy-a-floating-home

 

Basically seems to give you want you want without the hastle of boat maintenance and regulations. Also boats will devalue whereas these have the potential to increase in value. Possible team it up with a small boat at some point and you have the best of both worlds. 

 

I retired to a boat but now, due to health issues, need to go shore based. All I have is a depreciated Narrowboat to fund my shore based retirement. With the above option you will have at least held onto or even increased on your capital. 

 

By the way I have no regrets with choosing the Narrowboat life, done it, glad I did now looking at the next chapter. 

 

Lovely idea but wrong location unfortunately. We need to be based in Liverpool due to work commitments and have secured a mooring provisionally. Thank you for the info though, appreciated.

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21 minutes ago, Missjd66 said:

Yes I've seen this. Would be nice to stay but very expensive rates unfortunately!

 

I take it you haven't priced keeping a 70'x14' boat on a serviced mooring in Liverpool Marina yet then.

 

Note that their website indicative rates for canalboats are for skinny ones - you may have to pay the commercial rate for a widebeam liveaboard.

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I would say have a good look at the builders and styles of boats they build, sadly these days, most boats are built to maximise internal space, and therefore tumblehome is decreased, and more importantly swim and bow lengths are drastically shortened and as a result boats won't swim well, props can't get enough water, and so they can't perform as well when cruising. There are lovely wide beams out there, more of a Dutch barge style than wide beam narrowboat, which would give the space you need whilst still being responsive at the controls. 

Good luck with your search, you won't regret it!

 

Kind regards

 

Dan

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45 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

I take it you haven't priced keeping a 70'x14' boat on a serviced mooring in Liverpool Marina yet then.

 

Note that their website indicative rates for canalboats are for skinny ones - you may have to pay the commercial rate for a widebeam liveaboard.

Actually I have and it's quite reasonable.

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2 minutes ago, Missjd66 said:

Actually I have and it's quite reasonable.

 

As long as you realise that anything under five hundred quid is per metre per year, you'll be fine.  I know a couple of people that thought the quoted rate was for the whole boat, so were quite startled at 22 times the price ...

 

My previous mooring was less than sixty quid a metre a year, so it's understandable.

 

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1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Based on what I pay for my 14 foot beam boat I'd guess your 70 footer will be £7000 (ish)

 

https://www.liverpoolmarina.com/get-a-quote

 

Serviced moorings per metre per year:

 

Sailboat £385 x 22m = £8470

 

Canalboat £230 x 22m = £5060

 

Commercial £577.50 x 22m = £12705

 

I'd expect a widebeam to be somewhere between the narrowboat & sailboat figures, so £7k is about right.  I don't know if you need a CRT licence there, but I have a feeling you don't if you stay put.  You certainly need one to sail back into Salthouse or Albert Docks.

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7 hours ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

https://www.liverpoolmarina.com/get-a-quote

 

Serviced moorings per metre per year:

 

Sailboat £385 x 22m = £8470

 

Canalboat £230 x 22m = £5060

 

Commercial £577.50 x 22m = £12705

 

I'd expect a widebeam to be somewhere between the narrowboat & sailboat figures, so £7k is about right.  I don't know if you need a CRT licence there, but I have a feeling you don't if you stay put.  You certainly need one to sail back into Salthouse or Albert Docks.

 

Speculation, but, I bet the 'canal boat' pricing is based on a NB and with many marinas charging a premium of (at least 30%) fo fat boats it soon adds up.

For a 14 foot boat, some marinas will charge 2x the NB pricing as they are taking up the space of 2 boats that could each be paying £5,000.

 

Owning a 'fatty' is not cheap on Inland waterways.

 

Many coastal marinas do tend to be more relaxed about 'beam' as most boats are in the 12 foot area, but on the Cat (23 foot beam) Brighton Marina did say we'd have to pay for 2 moorings.

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“.... Some houseboats, such as a 60×12 wide-beam canal boat, offer greater square footage and more lateral space than a one-bed flat in Liverpool,” says Andy Farrell of Bluepoint Marine Services which provides services at the Liverpool Marina complex.... "

 

From here

https://ymliverpool.com/living-aboard-choosing-a-home-on-the-regions-waters/18843

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