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Missjd66

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I can see a horrible mistake being made soon.

 

Reasons in no particular order.

 

70 X 12 feet - HUGE.

Collinwood

Living with like minded people. On fat boats?

selling a house that appreciates for a boat that depreciates.

Based in North West where a boat that size will fit absolutely nowhere on a canal.

Residential Marina? Where?

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14 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

I can see a horrible mistake being made soon.

 

Reasons in no particular order.

 

70 X 12 feet - HUGE.

Collinwood

Living with like minded people. On fat boats?

selling a house that appreciates for a boat that depreciates.

Based in North West where a boat that size will fit absolutely nowhere on a canal.

Residential Marina? Where?

Thanks for your opinion

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21 minutes ago, Missjd66 said:

Thanks for your opinion

I think people are trying to give you an honest opinion based on their first hand experience. I lived aboard full time more or less for over 30 years only moving off this year as I am now retired and not so fit and boating gets harder as you get older. I lived on 7 different narrowboats and one widebeam. Narrowboats by far have the best cruising range and widebeams by far have much more comfort. However based on years of experience we bought a fifty by ten foot six widebeam which had tons of space for the two of us, about the same space as a seventy foot narrowboat but a more useable comy format. Whilst 70 by 12 isnt realy a big boat and would be easy enough to handle it is too big for comfort on much of the UK inland system. I skippered for a few years the Nottingham Princess which is much bigger than 70 by 12 with a over 20 foot beam and 16 feet plus air draught but that was on the river Trent were there is plenty of room. Its horses for courses and all that and I think you would soon become disillusioned with your 70 by 12 boat and would also find it very hard to sell if and when the day came. Living aboard is fantastic but has some drawbacks, one of which is that marina living soon gets boring and will be much more expensive than living in your house. Please do think long and hard before committing to such a boat.

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18 hours ago, Missjd66 said:

I do appreciate your opinions but surely different things for different people? There are many wide beams on the canals which seem to make a lot of people happy and although 'original' sizes are narrow and also fulfill people's desires, the options are there. Also if we do happen to prefer 'marina' life for the time being, based on our own personal circumstances then perhaps that is suitable for us as a first step. As I said we intend to learn all we can to prepare us for our 'early' retirement and what better way than to at least be living amongst like minded people. Obviously we will consider all aspects and decide what's best for us and hopefully along with advice including yours, we will broaden our knowledge to help us make informed decisions. So thank you, I really do appreciate your honesty. As for selling our house to fund a boat, again that's a personal decision based on personal reasons and we feel at this point in time it is right for us. Hopefully you can respect that :)

 

Yes of course I respect your right to do as you please, and can I offer an apology for my rather strident initial reply.

 

It might sound as though we're anti widebeam on this forum, but it's not quite true.  Those of us with a bit of experience of navigating the uk canals just get a bit exasperated sometimes when people with little experience seem to be heading down a certain route without doing much research.

 

But the fact that you have joined this forum suggests you want to research views and opinions from other canal users to improve your knowledge and decision making.  That should be recognised and welcomed.

 

Wide beam boats on canals are, of course, nothing new.  For example back in the industrial days the Leeds Liverpool canal was designed to accommodate boats 70 foot by 14 - a huge boat - but these were built sympathetically with rounded hulls and low cabins and they were meant to travel fast.  The modern slab sided flat bottom widebeam is designed to maximise internal space and they are not sympathetic to canal navigation.  Plus, these days canals are much shallower and narrower than in the days of cargo carrying. 

 

So it only fair to point out that a boat with the dimensions you describe built by one of the popular fabricators, will be pretty much unusable on the canal system.   Fair enough, you may say we'll just stay in a marina, but your first problem is finding somewhere that will accommodate such a large boat and is happy for you to live on it 12/12, receive your mail etc. 

 

You do, of course have to consider what happens when you need to have the boat docked - for hull maintenance, say.  If there are no on site facilities then you will have to move the boat at some point.  

 

I appreciate your desire for a change of lifestyle but if it's simply swapping a house for a boat moored permanently in a marina, the "like minded" people you expect to meet will have to be on the same wavelength. these are not boat people, they are marina dwellers.  If you want to be part of the boating community you may have to rethink your plans.

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8 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

I think people are trying to give you an honest opinion based on their first hand experience. I lived aboard full time more or less for over 30 years only moving off this year as I am now retired and not so fit and boating gets harder as you get older. I lived on 7 different narrowboats and one widebeam. Narrowboats by far have the best cruising range and widebeams by far have much more comfort. However based on years of experience we bought a fifty by ten foot six widebeam which had tons of space for the two of us, about the same space as a seventy foot narrowboat but a more useable comy format. Whilst 70 by 12 isnt realy a big boat and would be easy enough to handle it is too big for comfort on much of the UK inland system. I skippered for a few years the Nottingham Princess which is much bigger than 70 by 12 with a over 20 foot beam and 16 feet plus air draught but that was on the river Trent were there is plenty of room. Its horses for courses and all that and I think you would soon become disillusioned with your 70 by 12 boat and would also find it very hard to sell if and when the day came. Living aboard is fantastic but has some drawbacks, one of which is that marina living soon gets boring and will be much more expensive than living in your house. Please do think long and hard before committing to such a boat.

Thank you. Really appreciate your comments and will certainly consider what you say x

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4 minutes ago, Neil2 said:

 

Yes of course I respect your right to do as you please, and can I offer an apology for my rather strident initial reply.

 

It might sound as though we're anti widebeam on this forum, but it's not quite true.  Those of us with a bit of experience of navigating the uk canals just get a bit exasperated sometimes when people with little experience seem to be heading down a certain route without doing much research.

 

But the fact that you have joined this forum suggests you want to research views and opinions from other canal users to improve your knowledge and decision making.  That should be recognised and welcomed.

 

Wide beam boats on canals are, of course, nothing new.  For example back in the industrial days the Leeds Liverpool canal was designed to accommodate boats 70 foot by 14 - a huge boat - but these were built sympathetically with rounded hulls and low cabins and they were meant to travel fast.  The modern slab sided flat bottom widebeam is designed to maximise internal space and they are not sympathetic to canal navigation.  Plus, these days canals are much shallower and narrower than in the days of cargo carrying. 

 

So it only fair to point out that a boat with the dimensions you describe built by one of the popular fabricators, will be pretty much unusable on the canal system.   Fair enough, you may say we'll just stay in a marina, but your first problem is finding somewhere that will accommodate such a large boat and is happy for you to live on it 12/12, receive your mail etc. 

 

You do, of course have to consider what happens when you need to have the boat docked - for hull maintenance, say.  If there are no on site facilities then you will have to move the boat at some point.  

 

I appreciate your desire for a change of lifestyle but if it's simply swapping a house for a boat moored permanently in a marina, the "like minded" people you expect to meet will have to be on the same wavelength. these are not boat people, they are marina dwellers.  If you want to be part of the boating community you may have to rethink your plans.

Yes I am certainly looking to fully research every angle so thank you, I do appreciate your comments and no apology needed. Take care.

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On 09/09/2021 at 19:35, Missjd66 said:

I do appreciate your opinions but surely different things for different people? There are many wide beams on the canals which seem to make a lot of people happy and although 'original' sizes are narrow and also fulfill people's desires, the options are there. Also if we do happen to prefer 'marina' life for the time being, based on our own personal circumstances then perhaps that is suitable for us as a first step. As I said we intend to learn all we can to prepare us for our 'early' retirement and what better way than to at least be living amongst like minded people. Obviously we will consider all aspects and decide what's best for us and hopefully along with advice including yours, we will broaden our knowledge to help us make informed decisions. So thank you, I really do appreciate your honesty. As for selling our house to fund a boat, again that's a personal decision based on personal reasons and we feel at this point in time it is right for us. Hopefully you can respect that :)

I have a 57 x 12 widebeam with wheelhouse it's a big enough boat to handle and get around the northern system. However it cant go to the Lancaster canal because the ribble link is only designed for 10 foot wide boats even though the canal was designed for 72 x 16 boats! A 70 foot long widebeam will be severely restricted in its movements and no pleasure to cruise in our poorly maintained system. If you stay on the trent and some other sections you will be ok  but how long would it be before you got bored?

Do a bit of visiting areas and locks before deciding what you want. 

As for boats Johnathan Wilson is a well established boat builder with a good reputation he is based in Sheffield and Thorne 

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Just now, peterboat said:

I have a 57 x 12 widebeam with wheelhouse it's a big enough boat to handle and get around the northern system. However it cant go to the Lancaster canal because the ribble link is only designed for 10 foot wide boats even though the canal was designed for 72 x 16 boats! A 70 foot long widebeam will be severely restricted in its movements and no pleasure to cruise in our poorly maintained system. If you stay on the trent and some other sections you will be ok  but how long would it be before you got bored?

Do a bit of visiting areas and locks before deciding what you want. 

As for boats Johnathan Wilson is a well established boat builder with a good reputation he is based in Sheffield and Thorne 

Thank you Peter, appreciate the advice x

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19 hours ago, Neil2 said:

I appreciate your desire for a change of lifestyle but if it's simply swapping a house for a boat moored permanently in a marina, the "like minded" people you expect to meet will have to be on the same wavelength. these are not boat people, they are marina dwellers.  If you want to be part of the boating community you may have to rethink your plans.

 

^^^This^^^ ... and I second the comment that marina dwellers are a different breed from canal boaters. Living in a marina is little different from living on a mobile home (oxymoron) site. You'll soon get bored with the neighbour disputes, squabbles about car parking, smoke from the neighbour's stoke when they burn cheap house coal, etc etc. 

 

Secondly, don't sell the house. This is a stupid idea. Keep it, rent it out, use the rental money to repay a loan (if necessary) you take to buy a boat. Then should it all turn out differntly to how you thought, you can ultimately return to the house. 

 

Thirdly, buy a boat already built. This way you get boating straight away instead of waiting three years and enduring endless stress over the build. 

 

Forthly, ask yourself why there are no second hand boats about matching your description of what you think you want. (Clue: Read previous posts upthread.)

 

Fifthly, opinions may vary, but Collingwood boats are the Trabants of the boating world. Every expense spared in their design and build in order to lever the price down and still make a profit. Their primary market is newbie boaters who are only looking at the price. 

 

Sixthly, whatever you think you want now in a boat, after three years on it, almost all your views will have changed in the light of experience. Far better to buy second hand to start with then, if you still must, get the new one built once you have some experience under your belt. 

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4 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

^^^This^^^ ... and I second the comment that marina dwellers are a different breed from canal boaters. Living in a marina is little different from living on a mobile home (oxymoron) site. You'll soon get bored with the neighbour disputes, squabbles about car parking, smoke from the neighbour's stoke when they burn cheap house coal, etc etc. 

 

Secondly, don't sell the house. This is a stupid idea. Keep it, rent it out, use the rental money to repay a loan (if necessary) you take to buy a boat. Then should it all turn out differntly to how you thought, you can ultimately return to the house. 

 

Thirdly, buy a boat already built. This way you get boating straight away instead of waiting three years and enduring endless stress over the build. 

 

Forthly, ask yourself why there are no second hand boats about matching your description of what you think you want. (Clue: Read previous posts upthread.)

 

Fifthly, opinions may vary, but Collingwood boats are the Trabants of the boating world. Every expense spared in their design and build in order to lever the price down and still make a profit. Their primary market is newbie boaters who are only looking at the price. 

 

Sixthly, whatever you think you want now in a boat, after three years on it, almost all your views will have changed in the light of experience. Far better to buy second hand to start with then, if you still must, get the new one built once you have some experience under your belt. 

Good advice, thank you.

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On 09/09/2021 at 13:52, Missjd66 said:

Thank you. We are complete newbies and have done 'some' research and been to see a few boats. We are specifically after a 70ft x 12 widebeam and although would consider a pre-loved, have not seen any that fit our needs as yet. We need as spacious a build as possible with 2 bedrooms, modern style living and lots of light. We love the idea of our own bespoke design which is why the new option may suit. We are selling our home and the boat will be our new home where we intend to learn as much about canal life as is possible before actually venturing out! We retire in 5 yrs so living aboard in the marina will be our main lifestyle for a while anyway. Cannot wait to be part of such a lovely community! We have been recommended Collingwoods builders although have read some bad reviews which is why I'm looking for genuine advice from experienced people. My cousin is a very experienced builder but unfortunately retired so any plans etc will be ran by him obviously but he's on the Isle of Wight and we're in Liverpool! 

You do realise the limitation on cruising a boat that size will have. Also with no experience what you think will be an ideal liveabord layout design probably wont be.

 

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9 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

You do realise the limitation on cruising a boat that size will have. Also with no experience what you think will be an ideal liveabord layout design probably wont be.

 

Ok, so any helpful suggestions of what reduces limitations and what might be ideal? Thanks.

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18 minutes ago, Missjd66 said:

Ok, so any helpful suggestions of what reduces limitations and what might be ideal? Thanks.

 

I'd suggest about a 65ft-70ft narrowboat if you actually intend cruising about. It's what the canals were built for. 

 

(Most of them!)

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1 hour ago, Missjd66 said:

Ok, so any helpful suggestions of what reduces limitations and what might be ideal? Thanks.

 

If you look at a map of the English canal system you'll see what the problem is:

 

http://travelsfinders.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/canals-map-uk_8.jpg

 

In theory the wide canals and rivers are navigable by wide beam craft but in practice it's not quite that simple.  Apart from water depth issues, if you want to go across country via the Pennines your boat can't be longer than 60' and even that limits you to the Leeds Liverpool canal.  A lot of owners of wide craft tend to inhabit the waterways of the North/East where you have a decent run of truly navigable canals and rivers.  

 

As for the "ideal" layout, the point is that you need to spend quite some time on a boat before you know - there are a surprising number of permutations on a boat, eg do you want you galley in the bow or the stern, or midships?  Until you have lived/cruised on a boat for a while you simply won't know.   It is actually quite common for boats to come on the market only a year or two because the owners have decided to start again...

 

Hiring a narrowboat for a few weeks - not just a week - is one way of finding out what you like and don't like, and if you are not convinced about the argument against wide beams you can hire one of those too 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Missjd66 said:

Ok, so any helpful suggestions of what reduces limitations and what might be ideal? Thanks.

 

A boat that size will be perfectly at home on the North East waterways like the Aire & Calder, New Junction Canal etc. But that is a severely restricted cruising range. There are other sections you would have the space to cruise on but getting to them by boat would be impossible. You would have to get the boat lifted out and back in again.

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There is another problem not yet mentioned, at least it is a problem on the smaller canals but still with wide locks. Widebeams are slower than narrowboats, and getting stuck behind one lumbering along at 1.5mph when one's narrowboat can zip along at 4mph can lead to frayed tempers and very unhappy 'fellow' boaters. 

 

I guess this is not a problem on the mahoosive waterways in the north west  but down here, it takes a certain type of thick skin to cruise along with a queue of narrowboats behind all itching to get past, but who can't.

 

I think this effect is less pronounced if you go for a 9ft or 10ft wide boat, but some of the 12ft and 13ft wide behemoths really do creep along slowly.  

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24 minutes ago, MtB said:

There is another problem not yet mentioned, at least it is a problem on the smaller canals but still with wide locks. Widebeams are slower than narrowboats, and getting stuck behind one lumbering along at 1.5mph when one's narrowboat can zip along at 4mph can lead to frayed tempers and very unhappy 'fellow' boaters. 

 

I guess this is not a problem on the mahoosive waterways in the north west  but down here, it takes a certain type of thick skin to cruise along with a queue of narrowboats behind all itching to get past, but who can't.

 

I think this effect is less pronounced if you go for a 9ft or 10ft wide boat, but some of the 12ft and 13ft wide behemoths really do creep along slowly.  

 

Not sure about that... Apart from the Manchester Ship Canal all the canals in the NW are pretty tight for a fat boat.  

 

For good measure though, wide beams seem to stir up more prop fouling material as well.  CRT really should make them book passages and post these on the net so we can avoid them.

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, Neil2 said:

Not sure about that... Apart from the Manchester Ship Canal all the canals in the NW are pretty tight for a fat boat.  

 

Oh that's curious. Mrsmelly is always going on about how big the northern canals are, and how much more suitable they are for fatties than the elegant thin southern waterways. 

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3 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

Oh that's curious. Mrsmelly is always going on about how big the northern canals are, and how much more suitable they are for fatties than the elegant thin southern waterways. 

 

North East, yes, not the North West.  It's another example of how things are better on the Yorkshire side of the Pennines!

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I feel you need to take off the rose tinted spectacles. The people living on the canals come from all walks of life. I really don't understand your comment. Do you want to live amongst dossers and druggies? Are you looking for artists? Professionals, the retired? Not all will be living the life that they want, not all will be happy. Depression is common. It certainly isn't an idyllic life.

 

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58 minutes ago, sueb said:

I feel you need to take off the rose tinted spectacles. The people living on the canals come from all walks of life. I really don't understand your comment. Do you want to live amongst dossers and druggies? Are you looking for artists? Professionals, the retired? Not all will be living the life that they want, not all will be happy. Depression is common. It certainly isn't an idyllic life.

 

 

I agree with all of this, except perhaps the last bit. It certainly CAN be an idyllic life if you find the right mooring. But 98% of moorings out there are not 'idyllic'. They are either in shanty town marinas or a long muddy (in winter) walk from the nearest (usually dodgy) parking. On the other hand, the longer the muddy tramp along the towpath, the more likely the mooring is to be quiet and therefore "idyllic"! 

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1 hour ago, sueb said:

I feel you need to take off the rose tinted spectacles. The people living on the canals come from all walks of life. I really don't understand your comment. Do you want to live amongst dossers and druggies? Are you looking for artists? Professionals, the retired? Not all will be living the life that they want, not all will be happy. Depression is common. It certainly isn't an idyllic life.

 

 

If done correctly, and with a bit of luck, then it really can be an idyllic way of life. but I think this is most easily achieved with a narrowboat and cruising, rather than a widebeam in a marina.

 

We did pop into a marina recently for a pumpout and diesel and it did feel like it might just be ok (not idyllic bit just ok) , but I would certainly want to go out cruising very often and have the option to move to other marinas if I needed to.

 

My own view is that most people who want a widebeam are attracted to the idea of boating but deep down just can't let go of the idea of living in a house, boat living really needs a 100% commitment to a boaty life.

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1 hour ago, dmr said:

 

If done correctly, and with a bit of luck, then it really can be an idyllic way of life. but I think this is most easily achieved with a narrowboat and cruising, rather than a widebeam in a marina.

 

We did pop into a marina recently for a pumpout and diesel and it did feel like it might just be ok (not idyllic bit just ok) , but I would certainly want to go out cruising very often and have the option to move to other marinas if I needed to.

 

My own view is that most people who want a widebeam are attracted to the idea of boating but deep down just can't let go of the idea of living in a house, boat living really needs a 100% commitment to a boaty life.

 

Bang on. 

 

I've spent today on one boat moored for convenience in the miserable, soul-less environment called Fenny Compton. Marina. Then at dusk I drove to my other boat on an on-line mooring and WHAT a contrast. Owls hooting, no boat bang opposite peering through my portholes, no pontoon with more foot traffic up and down it that you could imagine possible, some actual canal scenery......

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