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Is this the right boat for liveaboard canal cruising?


Amara

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Hi everyone,

 

New to the forum- and new to the canal world in general as I am looking to buy my first liveaboard boat. I had not intended to purchase so fast (was planning on saving for a few more months yet), but found this whilst browsing and the interior/widebeam plus price seemed quite good. I’ll be getting a boat survey if I do go ahead.

 

https://www.apolloduck.co.uk/boat/de-groot-palma-40-for-sale/674990

 

 

My concerns are

 

- Is the V-shaped hull// size a big issue for continuous cruising? I know I’ll be restricted to canals that accommodate widebeams only, which works for me as I’d be planning to cruise the south England waterways for atleast the next year. But I’ve just thought about the bottom and wondered if this would be an issue.

 

- Insulation looks poor. I’ve self-built a home office and insulated it last year so I reckon I can redo the interior if called for, if it works the same way, but this won’t be before the next winter.

 

- 1970 make- is this too old? I’d be looking to get 5-10years out of it.

 

- Anything else? I haven’t been able to find a bigger/better boat in canal boat form so I’d be keen to hear your thoughts.

 

For context- I’m 23, F, Single. I’d be doing all of the legwork myself whilst working remotely and financing 70% using savings and the other using a personal/other loan. 
 

Unrelated question: I’ve started to think about wandering home at 9pm from work//a friends and navigating the dark country path to get to a boat…it’s concerning me! Do you have any tips for safety on the boat as a single F- or any thoughts on this? My dad’s biggest concern is safety which he thinks is < bricks motor house.

Also, anyone know any real life communities (Midlands/London) where I can see/learn about boats- youtube and forums are currently all I have.

 

Thanks for your help!

 

Amara

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If you could keep it on a Thames deep water mooring you’d be fine. But a 4’ deep V hull on the southern canals would be very difficult. Most canals are 3’ deep U shaped with shallow edges so it would be difficult and impractical. You need also to check the air draft.

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19 minutes ago, Amara said:

Also, anyone know any real life communities (Midlands/London) where I can see/learn about boats- youtube and forums are currently all I have.

 

London is one continuous liveaboard community! 

OK, that might be a bit of an exaggeration, but there are lots of people living on boats. Walk the towpath anywhere between Kensal Green and Hackney and talk to the people on boats. Most will only be too happy to tell you about the advantages and disadvantages of living afloat.

 

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Welcome to the forum, Amara. As others have said, this boat would not suit your stated requirements. It's handsome and would be at home cruising the canals of France or other continental countries, But it would be nothing but a burden on British waterways (or most of them, as mentioned above).

   The Apollo Duck web site offers many boats which would be suitable for you - have another look.

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An excellent boat for many uses but not really suitable for a liveaboard because of heating / insulation etc. and its too big height/draught for canals and anything other than the Thames below Oxford. There is much to be said for some Dutch cruisers but they are 'recreational' holiday boats really.

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35 minutes ago, Amara said:

Hi everyone,

 

New to the forum- and new to the canal world in general as I am looking to buy my first liveaboard boat. I had not intended to purchase so fast (was planning on saving for a few more months yet), but found this whilst browsing and the interior/widebeam plus price seemed quite good. I’ll be getting a boat survey if I do go ahead.

 

https://www.apolloduck.co.uk/boat/de-groot-palma-40-for-sale/674990

 

 

My concerns are

 

- Is the V-shaped hull// size a big issue for continuous cruising? I know I’ll be restricted to canals that accommodate widebeams only, which works for me as I’d be planning to cruise the south England waterways for atleast the next year. But I’ve just thought about the bottom and wondered if this would be an issue.

 

- Insulation looks poor. I’ve self-built a home office and insulated it last year so I reckon I can redo the interior if called for, if it works the same way, but this won’t be before the next winter.

 

- 1970 make- is this too old? I’d be looking to get 5-10years out of it.

 

- Anything else? I haven’t been able to find a bigger/better boat in canal boat form so I’d be keen to hear your thoughts.

 

For context- I’m 23, F, Single. I’d be doing all of the legwork myself whilst working remotely and financing 70% using savings and the other using a personal/other loan. 
 

Unrelated question: I’ve started to think about wandering home at 9pm from work//a friends and navigating the dark country path to get to a boat…it’s concerning me! Do you have any tips for safety on the boat as a single F- or any thoughts on this? My dad’s biggest concern is safety which he thinks is < bricks motor house.

Also, anyone know any real life communities (Midlands/London) where I can see/learn about boats- youtube and forums are currently all I have.

 

Thanks for your help!

 

Amara

 

Amara - welcome to the forum, I don't have anything to add to the comments already made on the boat in question.  FWIW though it's overpriced anyway.  For some reason Dutch steel cruisers which were once very sought after, have declined in popularity recently.  You can see it's been tarted up inside to try and catch an unsuspecting buyer.

 

You are doing the right thing by joining this forum - there is a wealth of experience here on all manner of boating - and non boating - issues, but in particular many member either live, or have lived, on canal boats so don't be afraid to ask for help/advice.  

 

You do need to be very careful, especially if you are thinking of borrowing money to buy a boat as the market is very hot at the moment and many consider it to be artificially inflated.  Canal cruising/living is extremely popular just now, it may be a fad, or it could be the thin end of a wedge, no-one really knows.  But as an inexperienced buyer you run the risk of paying over the odds if you don't understand what things are of real value and what is just cosmetic, shall we say.

 

Bear in mind that making alterations to a boat is vastly different to working on a house/flat ie it's usually more difficult and time consuming.

 

Whatever you do don't be rushed into a purchase decision just because you're worried someone else might buy it - there is always another boat.   

 

When it comes to buying a boat to live on I always think you can do a lot worse than look at boats that someone already lives on.  The priorities for a liveaboard are different to those of an occasional cruiser.

 

Do let us know if you see another potential boat, if there's one thing CWDF members like it's passing comment on boats for sale!

 

 

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Its too big for daarn saarf as the waterways are tiny except the Thames and adjoining rivers. It would be great on the larger Northern system with a range from Nottingham right up to Hull and Leeds etc etc. De groot are nice boats, I looked at one with a view to buying some years ago however as others have said this one is not for you. Oh and the interior is painted " London " white which is usualy to cover up a multitude of sins to enable a sale. As for safety!! Dad is of course correct in that bricks and mortar are way more safe financialy, dont live on a boat if its for financial reasons you need to want to live aboard. You will be no more at risk on a canal towpath than in some quiet street at night. Speaking as someone who lived aboard over 30 years and as a Dad, Grandad and indeed Great Grandad this coming november I would say your Dad is correct ;)

As for real life experience take a bimble along to some canals and dont be shy, most boaters will engage with you and you will find many single females living aboard.

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1 hour ago, David Mack said:

That's a river boat, not a canal boat. 4 ft draft will be a problem on the canal. The air draft is not given, but it looks far too high to pass under canal bridges. It should be OK on the Thames, but you can't CC on the Thames.

 

Point of Order 'Lud...

 

You can CC on the Thames but you have to move every 24 hours, except if you moor outside Tesco in Reading, when you have to move every 24 years. 

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49 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Its too big for daarn saarf as the waterways are tiny except the Thames and adjoining rivers. It would be great on the larger Northern system with a range from Nottingham right up to Hull and Leeds etc etc. De groot are nice boats, I looked at one with a view to buying some years ago however as others have said this one is not for you. Oh and the interior is painted " London " white which is usualy to cover up a multitude of sins to enable a sale. As for safety!! Dad is of course correct in that bricks and mortar are way more safe financialy, dont live on a boat if its for financial reasons you need to want to live aboard. You will be no more at risk on a canal towpath than in some quiet street at night. Speaking as someone who lived aboard over 30 years and as a Dad, Grandad and indeed Great Grandad this coming november I would say your Dad is correct ;)

As for real life experience take a bimble along to some canals and dont be shy, most boaters will engage with you and you will find many single females living aboard.

 

For what it's worth I have a young friend who is 25 now.   When he was 23 he asked my opinion as he was seriously thinking of buying a narrowboat to live on.  He's a bright lad, has a top degree a very good job and career prospects now but at the time, like many of his generation he was struggling to see how he could ever afford to buy a house.  Being single and unattached, the boating life seemed to be the answer.  

 

I started off telling him a few home truths about boating which he had never thought of.  His only experience was a couple of family hire boat holidays in July, so he could not imagine, for example, what life would be like during the winter.  Then I explained to him what the real cost of owning a boat is, and he soon grasped that it's not about saving money - unless you cut corners of course.  As you say, you really have got to want the lifestyle.  But even then, I asked my young friend what he would do if he met a girl and she didn't fancy the boating life..?  

 

What he ended up doing was getting a flat which he shares with a friend from his university days.  He's saving like mad and waiting for the housing market to crash - as it inevitably will.  He also now has a girlfriend which looks like the Real Thing and guess what she has no interest in boats or canals.   

 

 

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It's certainly a handsome beast,but not really suited to canal cruising,beam,draught,and airdraught,are all too much except for a limited number of canals.I don't think it has a weedhatch either so clearing the prop of weed/detrius is going to be a problem,unless like someone I know with a Dutch Barge,with a clogged prop,drained a pound and spent two hours waist deep in mud hacking away at a duvet.

(He did by the way,get a humongous bollocking from CRT)

It also looks too fresh and tidy for a boat that has been lived on,and may well have been tarted up to sell.

As a 1970 build,if it hasn't been overplated already,then it soon will need it.Also it looks about 15K overpriced.

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28 minutes ago, Neil2 said:

He's saving like mad and waiting for the housing market to crash - as it inevitably will. 

 

I know someone who sold his 4 bed house in Westbourne Grove, west London for £300k back in about 2003, so convinced was he that a house price crash was on the cards. He was cocksure he would be able to buy back in for £150k in six months. 

 

He is still waiting for 4 bed west London houses to fall to £150k. His old house is currently worth about £2m.

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3 hours ago, Amara said:

Unrelated question: I’ve started to think about wandering home at 9pm from work//a friends and navigating the dark country path to get to a boat…it’s concerning me! Do you have any tips for safety on the boat as a single F- or any thoughts on this?

 

In broad terms it is a non-problem, if you are worrying about getting attacked etc. Such incidences are so rare I cannot even recall hearing of one happening on the towpath.

 

The much bigger risk is falling in. Most cases of people falling in the canal and drowning and happen when walking back to the boat after a heavy night in the pub. 

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4 hours ago, peterboat said:

We have these boats up north on our waterways where they are well suited as they are deep and broad for the most part 

Did the Tanker run this week?  “Little Shuva” was bed levelling last week and CaRT said there would be a dredger up front for it. 

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3 hours ago, MtB said:

 

I know someone who sold his 4 bed house in Westbourne Grove, west London for £300k back in about 2003, so convinced was he that a house price crash was on the cards. He was cocksure he would be able to buy back in for £150k in six months. 

 

He is still waiting for 4 bed west London houses to fall to £150k. His old house is currently worth about £2m.

 

Of course the long term trend is upwards, but it fluctuates along the way.

 

I don't doubt though that £300k houses in London are worth £2m today.  That's why it enrages me when folk drone on about inheritance tax having "worked hard all our lives".   Folk can become stinking rich in this country by doing nothing more than staying in the same house and getting lucky with property values.   

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16 minutes ago, Neil2 said:

 

Of course the long term trend is upwards, but it fluctuates along the way.

 

I don't doubt though that £300k houses in London are worth £2m today.  That's why it enrages me when folk drone on about inheritance tax having "worked hard all our lives".   Folk can become stinking rich in this country by doing nothing more than staying in the same house and getting lucky with property values.   

But did they not work hard tom pay for their house in the first place?

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2 hours ago, PD1964 said:

Did the Tanker run this week?  “Little Shuva” was bed levelling last week and CaRT said there would be a dredger up front for it. 

Yes its moored up and discharging really pleased as I am sick to death of road being blocked by road oil tankers 

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27 minutes ago, Athy said:

But did they not work hard tom pay for their house in the first place?

 

The context is the topical issue of wealth inheritance, and particularly infirmed folk having to sell their valuable houses to pay for personal care.

 

There is an argument that owners of property should have the right to pass these valuable assets onto their children etc.  But in many cases the value of the property - particularly in the south of England - is a product of the gross imbalance of supply and demand, not purely "hard work".  No one would argue that a child should not benefit from the efforts of their parents, it's when wealth is a result of happy accident that it's contentious, especially when the alternative is that the cost of personal care is to be born by the state ie the taxpayer.   

 

As a mod you will probably want to stop this dialogue right now...  It's academic anyway.

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2 minutes ago, Neil2 said:

 

The context is the topical issue of wealth inheritance, and particularly infirmed folk having to sell their valuable houses to pay for personal care.

 

There is an argument that owners of property should have the right to pass these valuable assets onto their children etc.  But in many cases the value of the property - particularly in the south of England - is a product of the gross imbalance of supply and demand, not purely "hard work".  No one would argue that a child should not benefit from the efforts of their parents, it's when wealth is a result of happy accident that it's contentious, especially when the alternative is that the cost of personal care is to be born by the state ie the taxpayer.   

 

As a mod you will probably want to stop this dialogue right now...  It's academic anyway.

No, I don't, and I've nothing against academic. It is, though, a shame that you see something which you admit is "happy" as also being "contentious".

Yes, house prices vary in different parts of the country. They always have done, at least during my adult life. That means that the owners of properties in S.E. England (for example) or Cambridge have had to work harder to pay for them.

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