MtB Posted September 15, 2021 Report Share Posted September 15, 2021 1 minute ago, Ronaldo47 said: Thanks for that. In the 1980's,when I was working in Central London and had access to a local library's law books and collection of Statutes, I did notice the reference to "competent", but could find no definition in the Act or Rules that defined what it meant. There is nothing, it is for the court to decide if you were competent if hauled before it. Point is, if you are competent, there will be no reason for you to appear before the court. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 15, 2021 Report Share Posted September 15, 2021 (edited) 39 minutes ago, MtB said: There is nothing, it is for the court to decide if you were competent if hauled before it. Point is, if you are competent, there will be no reason for you to appear before the court. This of course is an over simplification of the actuality . Even competent people can make a genuine mistake. Of course that one mistake could result in one being hauled before a court, but a genuine mistake not bourne out of ignorance is different from plain and simple incompetence. Edited September 15, 2021 by The Happy Nomad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George and Dragon Posted September 16, 2021 Report Share Posted September 16, 2021 9 hours ago, Ronaldo47 said: In the 1980's, when I was working in Central London and had access to a local library's law books and collection of Statutes, I did notice the reference to "competent", but could find nothing in the Act or Rules that defined what it meant. Nor did I find anything in case law. I suspect competence is a useful concept that can be varied according to need. At one time I was competent to perform electrical installation work. My qualifications are now 20 years out of date and I would likely be liable to prosecution if I did more than minor works to an existing installation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tacet Posted September 16, 2021 Report Share Posted September 16, 2021 9 hours ago, MtB said: There is nothing, it is for the court to decide if you were competent if hauled before it. Point is, if you are competent, there will be no reason for you to appear before the court. 8 hours ago, The Happy Nomad said: This of course is an over simplification of the actuality . Even competent people can make a genuine mistake. Of course that one mistake could result in one being hauled before a court, but a genuine mistake not bourne out of ignorance is different from plain and simple incompetence. If hauled before it due to an incident, the Court would have to decide whether you were incompetent or negligent. Should you get it badly wrong, there will be few places to hide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtB Posted September 16, 2021 Report Share Posted September 16, 2021 (edited) 29 minutes ago, George and Dragon said: I suspect competence is a useful concept that can be varied according to need. At one time I was competent to perform electrical installation work. My qualifications are now 20 years out of date and I would likely be liable to prosecution if I did more than minor works to an existing installation. Under what law? I'm more inclined to suggest your work would simply need to be inspected and signed off by a currently qualified electrician, as you are unqualified to self-certify your work. Self certification is available to qualified people to certify their work complies with the various installation regs, and in particular the Building Regulations. Broadly speaking. Edited September 16, 2021 by MtB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Marshall Posted September 16, 2021 Report Share Posted September 16, 2021 Virtually every bloke who has done engineering work on my boat, from gas fitting to mucking about with the gearbox, however competent and experienced they may have been, have left me something to either tighten, replace or redo after they've gone. One occasion nearly sank the boat, another could have wrecked the engine. One didn't bother to replace half the nuts on the coupling after replacing the gearbox, and forgot to tighten the rest so they fell off the moment I started the engine. That one ultimately cost me an extra grand to put right, another was impossible to correct. I've given up expecting competence and now assume that every job I get done will take two different engineers, and the result will at least work for a time before I have to get another one in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtB Posted September 16, 2021 Report Share Posted September 16, 2021 36 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said: Virtually every bloke who has done engineering work on my boat, from gas fitting to mucking about with the gearbox, however competent and experienced they may have been, have left me something to either tighten, replace or redo after they've gone. One occasion nearly sank the boat, another could have wrecked the engine. One didn't bother to replace half the nuts on the coupling after replacing the gearbox, and forgot to tighten the rest so they fell off the moment I started the engine. That one ultimately cost me an extra grand to put right, another was impossible to correct. I've given up expecting competence and now assume that every job I get done will take two different engineers, and the result will at least work for a time before I have to get another one in. There ARE competent engineers out there, but they are few and far between IME. There are no controls on who can present themselves as 'marine engineers' so lot more time spent researching in advance who you let loose on your boat might fix this problem you describe. Quite often though, there is no-one really good so you have to employ a muppet, or DIY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchcrawler Posted September 16, 2021 Report Share Posted September 16, 2021 11 hours ago, The Happy Nomad said: Define 'competent'. I would wager a court would tend to err on the side of somebody properly trained and registered. As long as somebody understands if they DIY it they may have to work harder to prove their competence in a court when something does go wrong that stance is fine. If its all OK the person that did it was competent, if it goes tits up they weren't regardless of who they were registered with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 16, 2021 Report Share Posted September 16, 2021 1 minute ago, ditchcrawler said: If its all OK the person that did it was competent, if it goes tits up they weren't regardless of who they were registered with. It would depend on the exact set of circumstances and exactly what went wrong I would suggest. I contend you would have a better chance of defence if trained and registered than if you were not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBiscuits Posted September 16, 2021 Report Share Posted September 16, 2021 50 minutes ago, The Happy Nomad said: It would depend on the exact set of circumstances and exactly what went wrong I would suggest. I contend you would have a better chance of defence if trained and registered than if you were not. I recall a couple of cases recently where the judge took the opposite view. If you've been trained how to do it correctly you have no excuse for bodged work and the comments were reflected in sentencing ... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 16, 2021 Report Share Posted September 16, 2021 Just now, TheBiscuits said: I recall a couple of cases recently where the judge took the opposite view. If you've been trained how to do it correctly you have no excuse for bodged work and the comments were reflected in sentencing ... I can understand that, yes if something has actually been 'bodged'. As I indicated it would depend on the exact nature of what has gone wrong and why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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