Jump to content

Boatless members


Neil2

Featured Posts

3 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

Ah now THAT makes obvious sense. Thanks! 

 

(Along with the apportioning of any error so revealed.)

As you move the level forward over the land to be surveyed, you record a foresight (to the next point) and a backsight (to the previous foresight point) so as to keep tabs on the relative height from the point of origin.  When you arrive at the final point, you level back to the very first point (typically taking fewer, but longer steps) to see if all checks out.

 

If you are using a theodolite to record positions as well as height, you close the traverse by returning and recording the original station.  Not closing the traverse means no checks.  The traverse should be a reasonably regularly  polygon for greatest safety - but sometimes it tends to be a less accurate out-and back shape.  Then, with some arithmetic using 2n-4 right angles, you can be reasonably confident that you have not made a big mistake.  You can also check that the eastings and northings distances add up to zero.

 

With only pencil and paper, the arithmetic gets more complicated than you would wish as account needs to be taken of the linear measurements not being horizonatal.

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 minutes ago, Tacet said:

The theodolite, and its cousin, the level were developed around the time of canal mania and were in comparatively advanced form when Blisworth tunnel was constructed.  Even so, it must have been quite challenging because even a relatively recent mechanical instrument would have a tolerance of a couple of feet over a mile - which was the distance from each end.

 

However, then (as until recently too) the surveying techniques provide for working-back to the original point (closing the traverse) and checking to see the height of the original peg remains where it should be.  Any error is shared out amongst the stations proportionately which goes a long way to remedying any issues in leveling the instrument.    I also believe smaller drainage borings were sometimes made prior to main heading - which will have helped no end.

And when the surveys were a little inaccurate the tunnel bores from adjacent shafts wouldn't quite line up. Which is why some tunnels have wiggles in them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Tacet said:

As you move the level forward over the land to be surveyed, you record a foresight (to the next point) and a backsight (to the previous foresight point) so as to keep tabs on the relative height from the point of origin.  When you arrive at the final point, you level back to the very first point (typically taking fewer, but longer steps) to see if all checks out.

 

If you are using a theodolite to record positions as well as height, you close the traverse by returning and recording the original station.  Not closing the traverse means no checks.  The traverse should be a reasonably regularly  polygon for greatest safety - but sometimes it tends to be a less accurate out-and back shape.  Then, with some arithmetic using 2n-4 right angles, you can be reasonably confident that you have not made a big mistake.  You can also check that the eastings and northings distances add up to zero.

 

With only pencil and paper, the arithmetic gets more complicated than you would wish as account needs to be taken of the linear measurements not being horizonatal.

 

And they did essentially the same when constructing the channel tunnel, only the survey traverse had to cross the channel as well as a few miles on land either side.

The tunnel comprises two running tunnels fir the trains and a smaller central service tunnel. During construction, the service tunnel ran ahead of the main bores, and when the two service tunnel drives were about 100m apart they drilled a small hole through from one to the other. This enabled them to complete the survey traverse through the tunnel, and to design a revised alignment to take out the error. As the running tunnels had a larger gap they could design an alignment to connect the two drives suitable for high speed train running.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, David Mack said:

And when the surveys were a little inaccurate the tunnel bores from adjacent shafts wouldn't quite line up. Which is why some tunnels have wiggles in them.

The shafts were sunk on a straight line - which would not have been too difficult.  The tricky bit was then setting an accurate heading from the foot of the shaft.  I believe a glorified piece of string was  set up over the entire line - with two plumb-bobs dropped down each shaft and damped in a bucket-of-something, possibly mercury but that sounds expensive.  By sighting across the plumb strings, it gave an indication of the line of the top string and digging can commence.  It is a weak technique as a tiny error in the closely spaced plumb strings will be magnified.

 

But until relatively recent years when technology has taken over, the same issue of not being able to see when you want to go when tunneling must have remained.

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, Ange said:

Our reason for leaving was actually decided before we even started. We'd enjoyed hiring for many years and had decided that when we retired we'd buy a boat and cc. Then I got the diagnosis of a chronic condition and it was obvious that by retirement I wouldn't be fit enough for boating.

So we jumped off a cliff financially, gave up our jobs, let the house out and bought a boat with the rather meagre £25k we managed to scrape together (oh how they laughed at us at ABNB. A very helpful man refused to let us look at any boats and treated us to an interminable lecture advising us that we were too poor and too ignorant to consider buying s boat)

Our gorgeous Doug Moore boat was purchased not long after and seven years of cc'ing followed, we had decided that was our life until we were old, we loved it so much. 

Bugger, my medical condition suddenly ramped up, I couldn't lockwheel or steer so we sold our much loved boat and returned to our house in Kent where I have family support.

So many amazing memories and so many new friends that will be friends for life, no regrets just sadness that there were so many more places we wanted to visit.

Anyone in the same position - jump off that cliff, life's too bloody short.

 

One of the best and wisest posts I've read in a while. The sort of advice that really makes you stop and think. 

  • Love 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

25 minutes ago, booke23 said:

 

One of the best and wisest posts I've read in a while. The sort of advice that really makes you stop and think. 

 

I agree with the sentiments, but one aspect of Ange's post makes you realise how important it is to have a safety net if things take a turn for the worse.

 

I've met a worrying number of liveaboards in recent times who have sold everything they have in order to live on the waterways.  One case in particular I remember was an elderly couple who had sold their house bought a new boat and given away the rest of the money to their three children.  When I asked what they would do in the event of a serious health issue the answer was they didn't like to think about it.  No wonder.

 

I'm in the "life's short" camp myself but life is also very unpredictable and it doesn't hurt to take sensible precautions against an uncertain future.  

  • Greenie 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Neil2 said:

 

I agree with the sentiments, but one aspect of Ange's post makes you realise how important it is to have a safety net if things take a turn for the worse.

 

I've met a worrying number of liveaboards in recent times who have sold everything they have in order to live on the waterways.  One case in particular I remember was an elderly couple who had sold their house bought a new boat and given away the rest of the money to their three children.  When I asked what they would do in the event of a serious health issue the answer was they didn't like to think about it.  No wonder.

 

I'm in the "life's short" camp myself but life is also very unpredictable and it doesn't hurt to take sensible precautions against an uncertain future.  

 

Couldn't agree more. It was the renting out their house bit that I thought was particularly wise, but also the general sentiment. It's very easy to be blinkered by the treadmill of life.

 

 

Edited by booke23
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I can't believe people get tired of boating. 

Having said that I have no particular interest in living aboard a boat , especially not in the UK in winter .

 

My sympathies go to those who have had to give  up boating for health reasons. 

 

It seems to me  very uwise  to not retain a house or other residential property  , or funds sufficient to buy a home  , if deciding to live afloat.

I knew  a couple who put all of their money into a boat, he became unable to put up with winters afloat , and they ended up renting in retirement.

 

 

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

We sold the boat because it felt like we'd done all we wanted, travelled almost everywhere over 12 years, and plodding back and forth on the same bits didn't appeal - especially after crusties colonised the handy mooring places on the K&A

Plus the boat was incurring huge costs - putting a new engine in was eyewateringly costly, and I could see a new bathroom, toilet and heating system heading downtrack, and a repaint in a couple of years. The last year all the boating was solo due to a family care situation - not so much fun and I could see people looking at me and thinking 'poor old feral bloke'. 

Bought a motorhome as more suitable for short getaways. 

Drat - lost out massively as just before the market went mad and now I see lesser boats going for £25k more than I sold at! 

Motorhoming also not as comfortable, requires more planning, and they are everywhere due to covid so places to camp are as hard to find as a mooring near Bath. 

Family care situation resolved by mortality. 

Miss the boat a lot now, sellers regret. Dont miss the engine though. 

Mind you - heading down to Devon and Cornwall for a month so not so bad. 

  • Greenie 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, MartynG said:

I can't believe people get tired of boating. 

Having said that I have no particular interest in living aboard a boat , especially not in the UK in winter .

 

My sympathies go to those who have had to give  up boating for health reasons. 

 

It seems to me  very uwise  to not retain a house or other residential property  , or funds sufficient to buy a home  , if deciding to live afloat.

I knew  a couple who put all of their money into a boat, he became unable to put up with winters afloat , and they ended up renting in retirement.

 

 

 

I don't know I would say I got tired of boating, and think I would still be a boat owner if there was some way of substantially lowering the costs, but on the inland waterways there isn't really a cheap way of doing it.  Many of us live a long way from the nearest waterway which means marina fees all year round, so with the licence as well even a small boat has significant overheads.   There comes a point where you start looking at a) what real enjoyment you are getting from it and b) what else you could do with the money... 

 

Not being fabulously wealthy I just wanted the novelty of having a bit more disposably income for a while.  I may very well buy another boat, eventually, especially if the currently inflated market crashes.  

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

30 minutes ago, Tigerr said:

We sold the boat because it felt like we'd done all we wanted, travelled almost everywhere over 12 years, and plodding back and forth on the same bits didn't appeal - especially after crusties colonised the handy mooring places on the K&A

Plus the boat was incurring huge costs - putting a new engine in was eyewateringly costly, and I could see a new bathroom, toilet and heating system heading downtrack, and a repaint in a couple of years. The last year all the boating was solo due to a family care situation - not so much fun and I could see people looking at me and thinking 'poor old feral bloke'. 

Bought a motorhome as more suitable for short getaways. 

Drat - lost out massively as just before the market went mad and now I see lesser boats going for £25k more than I sold at! 

Motorhoming also not as comfortable, requires more planning, and they are everywhere due to covid so places to camp are as hard to find as a mooring near Bath. 

Family care situation resolved by mortality. 

Miss the boat a lot now, sellers regret. Dont miss the engine though. 

Mind you - heading down to Devon and Cornwall for a month so not so bad. 

Bit of advice genuineley given. Leave Cornwall alone this year its a bloomin nightmare. I know it well and have 2 kids who live there and its mayhem. Remember september is very busy as the kids are back at school so the sensible child free couples and older folk are about in abundance. Now if you want better beaches, much cheaper parking, better scenery and busy but not mobbed then go to west wales. Sat in  my garden here today at 29 degrees not a cloud in the sky. Free parking in many places even lovely coastal areas and you can go out for a nice meal without resorting to remortgaging your house. I had a message from a friend last evening in Cornwalls Newquay and its horrible at present. Even the lesser known places that locals know are too busy. Its also a covid hot spot.

  • Greenie 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, Neil2 said:

Many of us live a long way from the nearest waterway which means marina fees all year round,

Not necessarily. If you are going to use your boat frequently over the summer months you can CC in the summer, and just take a fixed mooring over winter. And if you aren't going to visit the boat much in winter, you don't need a winter mooring with too many facilities, so a cheaper option than the full marina may be possible.

Edited by David Mack
Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, Neil2 said:

 

I don't know I would say I got tired of boating, and think I would still be a boat owner if there was some way of substantially lowering the costs, but on the inland waterways there isn't really a cheap way of doing it.  Many of us live a long way from the nearest waterway which means marina fees all year round, so with the licence as well even a small boat has significant overheads.   There comes a point where you start looking at a) what real enjoyment you are getting from it and b) what else you could do with the money... 

 

Not being fabulously wealthy I just wanted the novelty of having a bit more disposably income for a while.  I may very well buy another boat, eventually, especially if the currently inflated market crashes.  

I live half a mile from a waterway but still keep the boat in a marina. 

Boating is not  a cheap hobby but I love it .  Boating has been a major factor in my wellbeing for some years so in that respect it has been good value .

 

I am sure the chief officer would find even more expensive ways to spend money if we did not have our own boat. We are on a weeks holiday now and it is costing next to nothing as we are mostly eating in and have not travelled far .

 

No one can be sure whether the current market will  return to previous values .

 

 

 

 

 

  • Greenie 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, MartynG said:

I live half a mile from a waterway but still keep the boat in a marina. 

Boating is not  a cheap hobby but I love it .  Boating has been a major factor in my wellbeing for some years so in that respect it has been good value .

 

I am sure the chief officer would find even more expensive ways to spend money if we did not have our own boat. We are on a weeks holiday now and it is costing next to nothing as we are mostly eating in and have not travelled far .

 

No one can be sure whether the current market will  return to previous values .

 

 

 

 

 

That's what we got utterly fed up with. Cruising the same waterways again and again.

 

We had realistically done everything within a two week cruise of where we were based time and again. It wears thin. Our last proper trip on NC up the Trent made our minds up for us. We were no longer enjoying it and at that point you can't justify the costs.

 

There was nowhere else we wanted to keep it so as time wore on we used it less and less. 

 

We are very much enjoying the freedom to explore new places that the motorhome is bringing us. Even for short weekend breaks we have an almost infinite number of places we can be from here within an hours drive. We were very limited with the boat for weekend trips.

 

It is also costing far less to keep. No mooring fees as it sits on the drive, we swapped the tax and insurance from my car to the van, the van despite its much higher value is cheaper to insure than the Nissan was, tax is £20 more for the van. Fuel costs will be far less than the boat despite it being full price white diesel. The cost of replacement parts are a fraction of the cost of marine parts, not that we have had to replace anything yet which is novel.

 

In a couple of weeks we are heading up to Scotland for 16 nights. It will be a damn sight cheaper trip than when we took the boat up there and we will see far more of the country along the way in the comfort of the van. We are finding it far easier to live with than the boat was.

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, mrsmelly said:

Bit of advice genuineley given. Leave Cornwall alone this year its a bloomin nightmare. I know it well and have 2 kids who live there and its mayhem. Remember september is very busy as the kids are back at school so the sensible child free couples and older folk are about in abundance. Now if you want better beaches, much cheaper parking, better scenery and busy but not mobbed then go to west wales. Sat in  my garden here today at 29 degrees not a cloud in the sky. Free parking in many places even lovely coastal areas and you can go out for a nice meal without resorting to remortgaging your house. I had a message from a friend last evening in Cornwalls Newquay and its horrible at present. Even the lesser known places that locals know are too busy. Its also a covid hot spot.

 

Yeah, the beach local to us was rammed on Sunday.

 

And Newquay is a sh1t hole any time of the year.

 

Lost gardens were busy yesterday but certainlly not rammed (attractions have to limit admissions). Mevagissey is always busy but we went on Monday and queued all of 10 mins. for fish and chips. Easily found somewhere to sit on the bench outside the Sharks Fin, a favourite spot to people watch.

 

St. Mawes today wasnt exactly busy today either.

 

 Caerhays beach on Sunday, rammed totally rammed.

 

 

Screenshot_20210907-220831_Messenger.jpg

Edited by The Happy Nomad
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, The Happy Nomad said:

 

Yeah, the beach local to us was rammed on Sunday.

 

And Newquay is a sh1t hole any time of the year.

 

Lost gardens were busy yesterday but certainlly not rammed (attractions have to limit admissions). Mevagissey is always busy but we went on Monday and queued all of 10 mins. for fish and chips. Easily found somewhere to sit on the bench outside the Sharks Fin, a favourite spot to people watch.

 

St. Mawes today wasnt exactly busy today either.

 

 Caerhays beach on Sunday, rammed totally rammed.

 

 

 

We are still undecided if we are going to head to Devon and Cornwall this time next year for our two week trip or head across to France instead. 

 

We have a week booked on the Isle of Wight earlier in July and a few of the bank holidays are booked for Burnham Deepdale in Norfolk and Southwold, Suffolk, and a trip down south somewhere (location not decided yet) to meet up with some other ex Sealine owners who have sold up and gone across to Motorhomes, so we have plenty of trips planned in the UK already.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 hours ago, Neil2 said:

One case in particular I remember was an elderly couple who had sold their house bought a new boat and given away the rest of the money to their three children.  When I asked what they would do in the event of a serious health issue the answer was they didn't like to think about it. 

 

18 hours ago, MartynG said:

I knew  a couple who put all of their money into a boat, he became unable to put up with winters afloat , and they ended up renting in retirement.

 

Which may be the best choice for them. The benefit of renting is all the maintenance that you would do yourself when younger is now somebody else's responsibility. The downside is you're now depending on someone else to sort it out. tbh this is not much different from the situation some less able people find themselves in while still owning and living in their own home - reliant on others to maintain the fabric of the property with the added difficulty of needing to organise it themselves.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, George and Dragon said:

 

Which may be the best choice for them. The benefit of renting is all the maintenance that you would do yourself when younger is now somebody else's responsibility. The downside is you're now depending on someone else to sort it out. tbh this is not much different from the situation some less able people find themselves in while still owning and living in their own home - reliant on others to maintain the fabric of the property with the added difficulty of needing to organise it themselves.

It was not what the couple I knew  wanted at all . It was not a choice for them but the only available option . They realised they had made a big mistake.

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Ange said:

Knowing that my health was going to deteriorate made keeping the house a no brainer for us but I'd recommend it for anyone. We could have sold our house and had the funds to buy a much posher boat but we knew we needed to make sure we had the longer term taken care of.

 

I know many new posters on here dismiss keeping their house and insist they need the capital for the boat purchase, I'd say buy a much cheaper boat than your dream boat and downsize that house of yours to release the capital without stepping off the property ladder.

 

Very true. I think people can get too caught up with wanting a very new boat. But in my experience the enjoyment of being on the canals is the same whatever boat you are on. 

 

43 minutes ago, George and Dragon said:

 

Which may be the best choice for them. The benefit of renting is all the maintenance that you would do yourself when younger is now somebody else's responsibility. The downside is you're now depending on someone else to sort it out. tbh this is not much different from the situation some less able people find themselves in while still owning and living in their own home - reliant on others to maintain the fabric of the property with the added difficulty of needing to organise it themselves.

 

This is true, but the big difference is that they will be faced with paying monthly rent for the rest of their lives, whereas if they had stayed on the property ladder in some way they would be rent and mortgage free.

 

I know plenty of retired people do rent, but where you have the choice to stay on the property ladder I'd say you should do so. Renting in retirement is a serious financial burden. 

  • Greenie 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, booke23 said:

 

Snip

 

This is true, but the big difference is that they will be faced with paying monthly rent for the rest of their lives, whereas if they had stayed on the property ladder in some way they would be rent and mortgage free.

 

Snip

 

And with a careful bit of spending planning could ensure they do not have to pay for social care if they need it. The main reason we have savings is to ensure we can pay for major repairs to the house now we have little income, and the only reason we have a house is because we could not get onto a council house list.

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Ange said:

Knowing that my health was going to deteriorate made keeping the house a no brainer for us but I'd recommend it for anyone. We could have sold our house and had the funds to buy a much posher boat but we knew we needed to make sure we had the longer term taken care of.

 

I know many new posters on here dismiss keeping their house and insist they need the capital for the boat purchase, I'd say buy a much cheaper boat than your dream boat and downsize that house of yours to release the capital without stepping off the property ladder.

 

I think the key factor here is that you had the opportunity to return to be near friends and family.  Owning a house in the uk is like being a member of an exclusive club where the members have some control over their future.  If you give up that stake in society, when you have problems all you can do is throw yourself on the mercy of the state.  

 

I had an Aunt who with her husband decided to sell up and move to Spain, where they were conned into spending their life savings on an apartment that on resale wasn't worth anything like what they paid.  When their health deteriorated they decided to return to the UK and ended up in a tiny council flat in let's just say not the nicest location in central Lancs.  I remember when they had this fabulous detached Victorian villa just on the edge of the Peak District and they gave it up all because of a rush of blood to the head.  They must have spent a long lonely time regretting that decision.

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, MartynG said:

It was not what the couple I knew  wanted at all . It was not a choice for them but the only available option . They realised they had made a big mistake.

 

 

 

 

We got chatting to an older couple who lived in a converted Mercedes Sprinter panel van and have done for the last 10 years or so the last time we went to Saltfleet Haven. They are usually off on their travels around europe and beyond but due to Covid had spent 18 months or so in the UK. They had sold up everything to buy and convert this van and all of their belongings, everything they owned was in it.

 

Their funds are now starting to run out, their van is being scraped through every MOT by the skin of it's teeth and was ready for the scrap yard years ago and their health is now starting to fail them, they are really starting to suffer during the winter months due to their living conditions.

 

They are completely stuck. When the van does fail they have absolutely no idea what they will do.

 

We found it quite sad talking to them as their dream had turned out to be a living nightmare for them with no obvious way to improve their situation.

Edited by Naughty Cal
Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, Naughty Cal said:

 

 

Their funds are now starting to run out, their van is being scraped through every MOT by the skin of it's teeth and was ready for the scrap yard years ago and their health is now starting to fail them, they are really starting to suffer during the winter months due to their living conditions.

 

They are completely stuck. When the van does fail they have absolutely no idea what they will do.

 

We found it quite sad talking to them as their dream had turned out to be a living nightmare for them with no obvious way to improve their situation.

Perhaps they did not expect to live this long.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.