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On 05/09/2021 at 13:20, MtB said:

 

Yes. Give pedestrians priority. 

 

Cyclists rarely appreciate just how intimidating to a person on foot a bike is, coming towards them at a reasonable pace, especially if they are elderly and/or in charge of a dog and/or small children. I dismount if a pedestrian ahead looks uncertain or worried by my approach. 

It's no problem a bike coming towards me,I can see it coming.

One from behind can be dangerous as I am going a bit deaf and when walking along the towpath it is sometimes necessary to jink from side to side to avoid puddles and potholes.

Have been belted on the shoulder once by a prat on a bike without a bell coming from behind.He just kept going no apology.

Probably as well,had he stopped in response to my swearing,I have no doubt there would have been fisticuffs!

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18 hours ago, fatmanblue said:

A bold claim I'd be interested to see substantiated..

 

I'm happier to jump on a Moulton and rode a hundred miles (or a couple of hundred) than on any diamond framed bike.

 

1 hour ago, David Schweizer said:

 

What with those little wheels and bendy frame? 

 

Of course in the end it's all about the engine...

 

But it's worth bearing in mind that the upright bicycle land speed record of 51mph was set on a Moulton.  

 

Because Moultons do not conform to UCI rules you can't use them for road racing but it's rumoured that Tommy Simpson said he wished he could have raced on one.  British amateur racer John Woodburn once broke the record for Cardiff to London on one, that's the only example I can think of where the bike was used in a competitive sense.  

 

It's academic for most of us because of the eye watering price of "proper" Moultons.  

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1 hour ago, Neil2 said:

 

 

Of course in the end it's all about the engine...

 

But it's worth bearing in mind that the upright bicycle land speed record of 51mph was set on a Moulton.  

 

Because Moultons do not conform to UCI rules you can't use them for road racing but it's rumoured that Tommy Simpson said he wished he could have raced on one.  British amateur racer John Woodburn once broke the record for Cardiff to London on one, that's the only example I can think of where the bike was used in a competitive sense.  

 

It's academic for most of us because of the eye watering price of "proper" Moultons.  

 

Well yes, I suppopse it is, but I have just done a calculation based upon the 1953 Carlton price list, and the cost of my bike today would be something like £900, which is a lot less than a Moulton, but I guess it would actually be a lot more today, given the amount of hand work that would have to be done.

 

As an aside my son worked part time Avon Valley Cyclery in Bathfor several years whilst he was at college, and he never rated Moultons, believing them to be over engineered and over priced, he always thought the Brompton to be a better designed and better built bike.

 

 

Edited by David Schweizer
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1 hour ago, Neil2 said:

 

 

Of course in the end it's all about the engine...

 

But it's worth bearing in mind that the upright bicycle land speed record of 51mph was set on a Moulton.  

 

Because Moultons do not conform to UCI rules you can't use them for road racing but it's rumoured that Tommy Simpson said he wished he could have raced on one.  British amateur racer John Woodburn once broke the record for Cardiff to London on one, that's the only example I can think of where the bike was used in a competitive sense.  

 

It's academic for most of us because of the eye watering price of "proper" Moultons.  

I rode an original Moulton for years at uni in the late 70s, 4 speed Sturmey-Archer, managed to find an 11-tooth rear sprocket in a tiny old bike shop so it went like sh*t off a shovel -- very good riding position with my old Brooks saddle on, faster on bumpy roads than a conventional bike. Used to really wind up guys on flashy racing bikes by overtaking them...

Edited by IanD
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59 minutes ago, David Schweizer said:

 

Well yes, I suppopse it is, but I have just done a calculation based upon the 1953 Carlton price list, and the cost of my bike today would be something like £900, but I guess it would actually be a lot more given the amount of hand work that would have to be done.

 

Your Carlton will be Reynolds 531 tubing which is hardly used any more mainly because the frame building industry is now dominated by more modern steel alloys that can be (TIG) welded.  It's less labour intensive ie cheaper.  So there's probably only a few builders who would be prepared to build in 531 which is only available to special order these days.  How times have changed, it was the de rigeur frame material when I started racing.

 

I'd guess to build a replica of your frame alone would be around £1500 today.  The components it's difficult to say as you would want the proper vintage stuff and some parts have become horrifically expensive - all the stuff I've thrown away over the years!

Edited by Neil2
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7 minutes ago, Neil2 said:

 

Your Carlton will be Reynolds 531 tubing which is hardly used any more mainly because the frame building industry is now dominated by more modern steel alloys that can be (TIG) welded.  It's less labour intensive ie cheaper.  So there's probably only a few builders who would be prepared to build in 531 which is only available to special order these days.  How times have changed, it was the de rigeur frame material when I started racing.

 

I'd guess to build a replica of your frame alone would be around £1500 today.  The components it's difficult to say as you would want the proper vintage stuff and some parts have become horrifically expensive - all the stuff I've thrown away over the years!

I'm missing the green/gold Reynolds stickers on the seat tube and forks that suggest it's 531. Of course, it might have been resprayed but a pro paint job usually comes with decals added after.

Owned a few 531 frames myself, and I agree that few builders use them now. Even worse if you want one repaired.

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On 05/09/2021 at 13:20, MtB said:

 

Cyclists rarely appreciate just how intimidating to a person on foot a bike is, coming towards them at a reasonable pace

Is that because most cyclists  have never walked anywhere where there might be cyclists ?  

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52 minutes ago, IanD said:

I rode an original Moulton for years at uni in the late 70s, 4 speed Sturmey-Archer, managed to find an 11-tooth rear sprocket in a tiny old bike shop so it went like sh*t off a shovel -- very good riding position with my old Brooks saddle on, faster on bumpy roads than a conventional bike. Used to really wind up guys on flashy racing bikes by overtaking them...

 

Alex Moulton was ahead of his time in many ways, he was the first to truly understand the importance of rolling resistance in cycling, something which even today isn't fully appreciated. 

 

His approach was that small wheels (tyres) have less rolling resistance because the contact patch is smaller than a larger wheel.  But in practice the ability of a large wheel to roll over rough surfaces and bumps outweighs this.  That's where Moulton's innovative suspension system comes in - removing the drawback of small wheels.  

 

The Achilles heel was/is going uphill, where the front suspension causes power losses.  That's why mountain bikes often have sophisticated controls to lock up the suspension when climbing.  I'm out of touch TBH so I don't know if present day Moultons now incorporate this feature, the one's I've ridden didn't.   

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50 minutes ago, Neil2 said:

His approach was that small wheels (tyres) have less rolling resistance because the contact patch is smaller than a larger wheel. 

This point came up recently on another thread. The contact patch area times the tyre pressure is equal to the weight carried by the wheel, whatever the wheel diameter or tyre width. Those latter factors will affect the shape of the contact patch but not its area. So for a given rider weight, the contact patch area will be very similar for a small wheeled or a large wheeled bike using the same tyre pressure (any small differences being due to differences in the frame weight and/or the weight distribution between the front and back wheels). 

The key to reduced rolling resistance is higher tyre pressure, but that does lead to a harder ride as there is less ability of a hard tyre to absorb bumps.

Does the Moulton use high tyre pressures?

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3 hours ago, Neil2 said:

 

Your Carlton will be Reynolds 531 tubing which is hardly used any more mainly because the frame building industry is now dominated by more modern steel alloys that can be (TIG) welded.  It's less labour intensive ie cheaper.  So there's probably only a few builders who would be prepared to build in 531 which is only available to special order these days.  How times have changed, it was the de rigeur frame material when I started racing.

 

I'd guess to build a replica of your frame alone would be around £1500 today.  The components it's difficult to say as you would want the proper vintage stuff and some parts have become horrifically expensive - all the stuff I've thrown away over the years!

 

3 hours ago, Puffling said:

I'm missing the green/gold Reynolds stickers on the seat tube and forks that suggest it's 531. Of course, it might have been resprayed but a pro paint job usually comes with decals added after.

Owned a few 531 frames myself, and I agree that few builders use them now. Even worse if you want one repaired.

 

Yes, Reynolds Light Gauge Racing 531 Tube. The frame was in poor cosmetic condition when I bought it, so I had it sandblasted and then I re sprayed and detailed it myself. I was able to get hold of some genuine Carlton Transfers from the Carlton/Raleigh works, but they would not supply any Reynolds 531 transfers, even though they had some. They offered to apply them to the frame if I took it to the works which was over 100 miles away, so I never got them applied. I believe that I can get them on ebay nowadays.

 

 

Edited by David Schweizer
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In the 1980's we used to get "Bicycle" magazine circulated at work, and I recall an article about the different types of Reyolds tubing with its varying internal diameter and how it was assembled by brazing. There was also one on the rolling resistances of different types of tyre tread, ones intended for on-road use having at least one continuous bead as well as treaded parts for grip in the wet. The tyres that came with our electric bikes as original equipment had a single continuous central bead, but I was only able to find the knobbly bead-less off-road tyres in our 24" size locally the last time I needed a replacement.   

 

I think that, with a conventional spoked wheel, the spokes will stretch and retract  slightly in response to impact forces due to potholes and the like, and so act as mini-shock absorbers. A half-sized wheel will not only have fewer spokes to absorb the force, a short spoke will also have to stretch twice as far as spoke of conventional length in response to a given amplitude of shock. Hence the need for Moulton's shock absorbers.

 

I used to buy the spokes for my Bickerton by the dozen and keep half at work. In the 1980's there were no cycle lanes in Central London, and in rush-hour traffic there was often no possibility of safely avoiding potholes and the like, which put a lot of strain on the spokes of its 12" and 14" wheels.

 

Bickerton's advertising mentioned that someone had cycled across the USA on one without suffering from so much as a puncture. I guess this is a reflection of the good state of their roads at the time. 

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1 hour ago, David Mack said:

This point came up recently on another thread. The contact patch area times the tyre pressure is equal to the weight carried by the wheel, whatever the wheel diameter or tyre width. Those latter factors will affect the shape of the contact patch but not its area. So for a given rider weight, the contact patch area will be very similar for a small wheeled or a large wheeled bike using the same tyre pressure (any small differences being due to differences in the frame weight and/or the weight distribution between the front and back wheels). 

The key to reduced rolling resistance is higher tyre pressure, but that does lead to a harder ride as there is less ability of a hard tyre to absorb bumps.

Does the Moulton use high tyre pressures?

 

This topic probably occupies more space on cycling forums than any other, as it's all about theory and practice, ie in theory high pressure is better but in practice it isn't - only on dead smooth surfaces and uk roads are anything but dead smooth.

 

It's the reason why in recent years wide section tyres have become more popular among the racing fraternity - when I was racing some of us were using pencil thin 18mm covers - it's great though, I now have a great excuse for my pathetic results.

 

In the case of the record breaking Moulton, Alex Moulton collaborated with French tyre company Wolber and produced a one-off special - I think they were 17" at the time - which was a special compound and did in fact run at very high pressures.  AFAIK this tyre never went into mass production, probably because it wasn't safe for general use.   Actually I'm not sure about that, it may have been produced but I suspect as you could only use it on a Moulton the market was limited.   

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, David Mack said:

This point came up recently on another thread. The contact patch area times the tyre pressure is equal to the weight carried by the wheel, whatever the wheel diameter or tyre width. Those latter factors will affect the shape of the contact patch but not its area. So for a given rider weight, the contact patch area will be very similar for a small wheeled or a large wheeled bike using the same tyre pressure (any small differences being due to differences in the frame weight and/or the weight distribution between the front and back wheels). 

The key to reduced rolling resistance is higher tyre pressure, but that does lead to a harder ride as there is less ability of a hard tyre to absorb bumps.

Does the Moulton use high tyre pressures?

Yes, the original Moultons used special tyres developed by Dunlop which ran at something like 100psi IIRC. The hard ride which would have resulted was made up for by the suspension. 

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