CRT Ruling on Lockside Cottages

[Dyertribe]

We have an integral garage but it gets pretty chilly in the depths of winter to the stent that over the Christmas break all our booze is kept there until a final chilling is called for in the fridge. It never gets to freezing though. I’m greatful for this as our main bedroom is over the garage so it would be less than cosy!

I had previously thought that this would be a good place for the boiler as it would give me another cupboard in the utility room and would just require relocating to the other side of the wall. 

Our garage is immaculate (except for spiders) as ‘Im Indoors is a neat freak and we actually keep our cars in there!

Edited September 5, 2021 by Dyertribe

[MtB]

9 minutes ago, Derek R. said:

Shouldn't 'central' heating be in the middle of the house? Viking style?

 

Have a job to get our Rayburn in the loft, wouldn't want to go up there for a boiled kettle or roast dinner.

 

Hmmmm I serviced a gas-fired Rayburn on Thursday, installed in 1968. 

 

Another 50 years and it will be knackered and ready for replacement. 

 

Coast of the service was probably more than the original cost of the appliance!

7 minutes ago, Dyertribe said:

We have an integral garage but it gets pretty chilly in the depths of winter to the stent that over the Christmas break all our booze is kept there until a final chilling is called for in the fridge. It never gets to freezing though. I’m greatful for this as our main bedroom is over the garage so it would be less than cosy!

I had previously thought that this would be a good place for the boiler as it would give me another cupboard in the utility room and would just require relocating to the other side of the wall. 

Our garage is immaculate (except for spiders) as ‘Im Indoors is a neat freak and we actually keep our cars in there!

 

That all sounds fine to me. 

 

If I were servicing it for you I could spread all my tools out on the bonnet of the car....

 

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Dyertribe said:

We have an integral garage but it gets pretty chilly in the depths of winter to the stent that over the Christmas break all our booze is kept there until a final chilling is called for in the fridge. It never gets to freezing though. I’m greatful for this as our main bedroom is over the garage so it would be less than cosy!

I had previously thought that this would be a good place for the boiler as it would give me another cupboard in the utility room and would just require relocating to the other side of the wall. 

Our garage is immaculate (except for spiders) as ‘Im Indoors is a neat freak and we actually keep our cars in there!

 

Our pipes have never frozen.

 

The previous boiler had a seperate frost stat that would fire the boiler up if things got too cold. The replacement has an in built one according to the manual. Either way in over 25 years no pipes have frozen and subsequently burst.

 

The guy that fitted ours and now services it annually just lays out all his gear on the top of the nearby chest freezer.

 

In fact this thread has reminded me I need to book a boiler service as its due this month.

[1st ade]

20 hours ago, MtB said:

 

Yes: 

 

1) First reason is FROST. A loft insulated to current standards will be almost as cold as outside. This means the boiler and all the associated heating pipework in the loft is at risk of frost damage. In addition, if it's a condensing boiler, then the condensate drain is at particular risk of freezing (his leads to the boiler stopping working when you need it most). Frost protection systems for boilers in cold spaces tend to be unreliable and hard to control, and sometimes seem to cause nuisance firing of the boiler puzzling the user greatly.

 

2) The user control panel on the boiler is not accessible to the user unless they pull the ladder down and go up into the loft. In particular the user cannot see the pressure gauge on the front so will not know if the system is losing pressure. Also, to adjust the temperature controls, the user has to go into the loft. And to see if there are any error messages showing should the boiler stop working. 

 

3) It is not good for boilers to be operated in extremes of temperature. A well insulated loft can fall below freezing in winter and rise as high as 40 degrees C on a hot summer's day. Boiler manuals do not generally specify a maximum ambient operating temperature but the temperature of a loft on a hot summer day seems intuitively too high to me.

 

 

So those are the technical reasons! Now the more personal ones 😉

 

 

4) It's a HORRIBLE environment in which to work on a boiler. Everything in most lofts is dirty and dusty, including the boiler and the floor in front of it (if there is one at all) where I have to sit. Not conducive to good workmanship. 

 

5) What floor there is, tends to be a tiny cramped area in front of the boiler surrounded by piles of junk and gloom. No space at all to unpack the toolbox and spread the contents out.

 

6) The workspace is surrounded by open joists and loft insulation ready to swallow up any little screws or tools dropped. 

 

7) The fibreglass dust cannot be good for my lungs.

 

😎 The boiler is usually a wall-mounted model  designed for installation at about head height for ease of maintenance. but when installed in a loft they are usually at about knee height. A pig to work on when all the bits you need to get at are close to the (dirty) floor.

 

9) Lighting. Even if there IS any, it is usually a bare 60w bulb swinging with a baleful glow leaving the inside/underneath of the boiler where the work needs to be done still in semi-darkness.

 

10) Most lofts are the same temperature as outside. Freezing cold in winter and boiling hot in summer. Not pleasant to work in.

 

11) Ever tried lugging a 25kG toolbox and a vacuum cleaner with extension lead up a ladder and through a 24" square hole? Then back down again?

 

So, these are all the reasons I can think of for now 😄 You'll probably understand now why I generally decline to work on boilers in loft spaces...

 

And I'll probably think of some more reasons later😉

 

I am now VERY glad I declined Mr's 1st Ade's suggestion of having the new Condensing Combi in the loft and had it installed in exactly the same place as the previous non-condensing non-combi in the bathroom.

 

(I thought, looking at the exterior pipework in the loftside lockside cottage cottage you'd have mentioned squeezed into the eves with restricted headroom...)

[Derek R.]

9 hours ago, MtB said:

 

Hmmmm I serviced a gas-fired Rayburn on Thursday, installed in 1968.

Another 50 years and it will be knackered and ready for replacement.

Coast of the service was probably more than the original cost of the appliance!

(snipped)

 

The first Rayburn we had was in a Scottish estate bungalow (concrete shoe box). Terrible condition and any 'servicing' was done by the tennant. Solid fuel and mostly wood. No rads, but heated water in the cylinder in a cupboard beside the range, direct, so plenty of pipe blockage through furred pipes despite soft water straight off 'the hill'. You could make tea straight from the tap. Had some interesting chimney fires. The 'estate' didn't do 'servicing'.

The second was a 'Royal' in Salop. Solid fuel again, mostly ovals. The semi-rotary grate had a brick in a big hole, it needed re-bricking, and again - direct to a cylinder in the bathroom above. This time the estate was resonsible for servicing and it got re-bricked, along with a change to an indirect system, much improved after that. It burnt out another two semi-rotary grates in the seven years we were there. I paid and fitted them, they were £30 a pop.

The third, another 'Royal', is oil fired. We've had it serviced by acredited engineers twice and twice we've had them back to correct imbalances made. Again, no rads, just "Hot water - and plenty of it!" It's in the kitchen (naturally) and the indirect cylinder is behind me in the spare bedroom. No pumps, no timers just thermo syphon operation on the water side. Unaffected by power cuts. No gas in the house.

[Hudds Lad]

Why don’t you all have your boilers in the cellar like normal people?  

[MtB]

42 minutes ago, Hudds Lad said:

Why don’t you all have your boilers in the cellar like normal people?  

 

How did you know my boat has a cellar?

[Hudds Lad]

23 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

How did you know my boat has a cellar?

Where else would the butler live?

[Derek R.]

No cellar here either. But I do have a space under the stairs. Unfortunately (or otherwise) it's occupied by the vacuum cleaner and Christmas decorations.

The 'boiler' is staying firmly in the kitchen and the kettle is always on.

[MIKE P]

So after six posts it has turned to a Plumbers chin wag.

By the way is pump out better than cassette?

 

[Derek R.]

It's the way of the World.

Just a simple bucket will do. Keep It Simple. Lost a cheque book once . . . found it in the Elsan.

[reg]

8 hours ago, Derek R. said:

Lost a cheque book once . . . found it in the Elsan.

Gives a whole new meaning to money laundering.