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Boats running their engine outside 8 till 8 rules


Timx

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8 hours ago, Timx said:

Thanks for all replies, it’s just me who reports to crt then for inconsiderate behaviour,

If I had a boat (which I don't) and it happened to me I'd report it to CRT.

 

Others have commented that CRT do nothing - well if you don't report it they can't do anything.

 

If CRT are under resourced - reporting is what they need; "on 27 consecutive evenings 18 different boats have reported boat 'X' at location 'Y' for running a noisy engine not just after 20:00, but after 22:00". therefore there is a sporting chance that one visit at (say) 21:15 by someone in authority will have some effect. At the same time they can inspect the waterpoint, drop some leaflets in the pub, generally show the flag. A good use of, perhaps, a few hours overtime.

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On 28/08/2021 at 22:13, Tracy D'arth said:

He seemed to think that it was his given right because he could not boil water any other way 

Was he perhaps from a remote country in which the Thermos flask had not yet been discovered?

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On 29/08/2021 at 15:03, Hudds Lad said:

There is a lady on the Oxford with an all black boat with roofboxes and no visible markings who is quite verbally aggressive and in possession of a colourful vocabulary that she will allegedly use with little provocation on passing boats. At least two of the other shares on our boat have experienced it, we’ve seen the boat and passed it with no problem though. Possibly thats who @Bod is referring to??

Now that rings a bell. I wonder if she was once a member here, before leaving abruptly and spectacularly.

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30 minutes ago, 1st ade said:

If I had a boat (which I don't) and it happened to me I'd report it to CRT.

 

Others have commented that CRT do nothing - well if you don't report it they can't do anything.

 

If CRT are under resourced - reporting is what they need; "on 27 consecutive evenings 18 different boats have reported boat 'X' at location 'Y' for running a noisy engine not just after 20:00, but after 22:00". therefore there is a sporting chance that one visit at (say) 21:15 by someone in authority will have some effect. At the same time they can inspect the waterpoint, drop some leaflets in the pub, generally show the flag. A good use of, perhaps, a few hours overtime.

 

It's the same principle as reporting crime to the police even though they probably won't take any action.  

 

How often do you hear boaters complaining about overstayers/ bridge hoppers, yet how many make a point of reporting the culprits?

 

 

 

1 minute ago, Athy said:

Now that rings a bell. I wonder if she was once a member here, before leaving abruptly and spectacularly.

 

Yes I was thinking the same, except from what I can remember I don't know if she was capable of getting her boat all the way down to the Oxford canal.

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1 minute ago, Neil2 said:

 

It's the same principle as reporting crime to the police even though they probably won't take any action.  

 

How often do you hear boaters complaining about overstayers/ bridge hoppers, yet how many make a point of reporting the culprits?

 

 

 

As there is no formal channel for reporting after 8 engine runners, overstayers and general pish takers, I suspect CRT have little appetite for enforcement of their T&Cs. 

 

I would have little confidence that say, a phone call would be met with anything other than the call handler saying all the right things then no actual action taking place. If CRT published figures saying, for example that X hundred complaints were received about late engine running, Y hundred advice letters sent out, and Z personal visits made by CRT officials, boaters might have more confidence that something (anything) might happen. 

 

But they don't, AFAIK. 

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31 minutes ago, MtB said:

I suspect CRT...

 

31 minutes ago, MtB said:

I would have little confidence...

 

31 minutes ago, MtB said:

But they don't, AFAIK

 

And they can't if you don't tell them!!

 

 

My second day job is a Parish Councillor - you would be amazed (not) at the number of Social Media postings in the locality on the general theme of "they didn't empty my bins" or "there's a car parked across my driveway". I used to be really helpful, sympathetic, I'll find the right department (in the Unitary Authority, not our Parish Council) and report it, it took a couple of weeks to go to "what was the response when you reported it?". I don't mind "prodding buttock" (to use a diskworld expression) if the UA are not helping but if the point of the post is "can you report it for me" then the answer is no. Sorry [dismounts from High Horse]

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45 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

 

As there is no formal channel for reporting after 8 engine runners, overstayers and general pish takers, I suspect CRT have little appetite for enforcement of their T&Cs. 

 

I would have little confidence that say, a phone call would be met with anything other than the call handler saying all the right things then no actual action taking place. If CRT published figures saying, for example that X hundred complaints were received about late engine running, Y hundred advice letters sent out, and Z personal visits made by CRT officials, boaters might have more confidence that something (anything) might happen. 

 

But they don't, AFAIK. 

 

But it has to start somewhere.  If folk started reporting these issues as opposed to passing by on the other side, I reckon it wouldn't be too long before there was a dedicated CRT line for engine runners, for example.  

 

I was on the receiving end of a complaint some years ago, got quite a nasty letter from CRT demanding that I stop using my boat for commercial purposes.  I was initially outraged - largely because I had sold that boat six months previously - but after I had vented my spleen on the inefficiency of the trust I was sort of reassured that they had at least taken some action.

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21 minutes ago, 1st ade said:

 

 

 

And they can't if you don't tell them!!

 

 

My second day job is a Parish Councillor - you would be amazed (not) at the number of Social Media postings in the locality on the general theme of "they didn't empty my bins" or "there's a car parked across my driveway". I used to be really helpful, sympathetic, I'll find the right department (in the Unitary Authority, not our Parish Council) and report it, it took a couple of weeks to go to "what was the response when you reported it?". I don't mind "prodding buttock" (to use a diskworld expression) if the UA are not helping but if the point of the post is "can you report it for me" then the answer is no. Sorry [dismounts from High Horse]

 

10 minutes ago, Neil2 said:

 

But it has to start somewhere.  If folk started reporting these issues as opposed to passing by on the other side, I reckon it wouldn't be too long before there was a dedicated CRT line for engine runners, for example.  

 

I was on the receiving end of a complaint some years ago, got quite a nasty letter from CRT demanding that I stop using my boat for commercial purposes.  I was initially outraged - largely because I had sold that boat six months previously - but after I had vented my spleen on the inefficiency of the trust I was sort of reassured that they had at least taken some action.

 

I sort of accept what you two are saying, but its chicken and egg. How should one 'report' to CRT to be sure it gets to the anonymous and invisible department that might be the one to write the letter, or whatever? Phone the call centre number? Write a letter to head office? Send an email to the generic email address? Post on their FaceBook page? Twitter? Web form to fill in? Something else? CRT give us no guidance that I know of. Even a comment on a CRT web page saying complaints about overstayers/later engine runners should be made to the CRT general enquiries number would create some confidence. 

 

The feeling I have, probably shared amongst many boaters, that there will be no meaningful response beyond platitudes designed to 'manage' the complainer, if any at all.

 

Has anyone here reported a pish-taking boater and actually received or seen a meaningful response from CRT?

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2 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

 

I sort of accept what you two are saying, but its chicken and egg. How should one 'report' to CRT to be sure it gets to the anonymous and invisible department that might be the one to write the letter, or whatever? Phone the call centre number? Write a letter to head office? Send an email to the generic email address? Post on their FaceBook page? Twitter? Web form to fill in? Something else? CRT give us no guidance that I know of. Even a comment on a CRT web page saying complaints about overstayers/later engine runners should be made to the CRT general enquiries number would create some confidence. 

 

The feeling I have, probably shared amongst many boaters, that there will be no meaningful response beyond platitudes designed to 'manage' the complainer, if any at all.

 

Has anyone here reported a pish-taking boater and actually received or seen a meaningful response from CRT?

 

Yes.  And it's a case in point - there was a boat moored next to a bridge on the GU that I passed a few times over the course of several months.  Clearly the thing had not moved in that time so I reported it.  I got an immediate reply that the matter had been passed onto the local operative - I can't remember what the actual designation was - but the boat did move on a couple of weeks later.  It might have moved back again after a few days but that's not really the point.   

 

I used to work in the public sector and it's definitely my experience that corrective policies/actions are almost always a response to public pressure.  A public service organisation can't justify devoting resources to something without overwhelming evidence that there's a need.

 

I agree that CRT should make it clearer what the correct channels are for reporting breaches of licence conditions, I think when I raised this a while ago the reply was to go through customer services, but I'll ask the question again and see what happens.

 

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15 hours ago, Arthur Marshall said:

I left the euphemism at home, with my wife's tuba. We're hoping they get together and have a soprano cornet while we're away.

My wife once went out thinking to buy a bass clarinet, and came back with a sopranino saxophone instead...

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2 hours ago, 1st ade said:

  therefore there is a sporting chance that one visit at (say) 21:15 by someone in authority will have some effect. At the same time they can inspect the waterpoint, drop some leaflets in the pub, generally show the flag. A good use of, perhaps, a few hours overtime.

But they leave off at 1700hrs 

Last trip I had a CRT employee moored in front of me, he was on holiday, three of us commented how the boat ahead had been burning plastic on their fire. The response of the CRT gent was that today he wouldn't approach anyone about it as you don't know what you are coming up against. Thinking of the poor chap on the Aylesbury arm that is very true.

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I'll admit to once running the engine when moored after 8pm.  Some years ago we hired a boat with friends for a week over New Year. With an early-afternoon pickup, the usual faff getting used to a new boat, and a few locks, we hadn't gone very far on the first day before it was getting dark and we had to moor up.  It was then a long evening, and about 9pm the lights went out!  Possibly the boat had been sitting in the yard for 3 months unused, and the batteries were not well charged.  So we ran the engine for perhaps 30-45 minutes.  Being mid-winter there weren't many boats on the move, so I don't think we disturbed anyone - although one can never be sure if someone is moored just around the next bend.

 

For the rest of the week we were cruising all day, and it wasn't an issue.

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2 hours ago, Neil2 said:

 

It's the same principle as reporting crime to the police even though they probably won't take any action.  

 

How often do you hear boaters complaining about overstayers/ bridge hoppers, yet how many make a point of reporting the culprits?

 

 

 

 

Yes I was thinking the same, except from what I can remember I don't know if she was capable of getting her boat all the way down to the Oxford canal.

 

On a related note, I helped two well-dressed women in full make-up on an old NB down though Elkington Lock yesterday on the southern Oxford. They seemed to know absolutely nothing about how locks work and extremely grateful for my brief explanation of how to raise a paddle, and which way around to put the windlass on a spindle. (This was the second time this week I've seen someone put it on with the handle pointing towards the paddle, so it won't go around 360 degrees but fouls the woodwork). Point being, they must have come down the Claydon fight and I have no idea how they managed.

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53 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

On a related note, I helped two well-dressed women in full make-up on an old NB down though Elkington Lock yesterday on the southern Oxford. They seemed to know absolutely nothing about how locks work and extremely grateful for my brief explanation of how to raise a paddle, and which way around to put the windlass on a spindle. (This was the second time this week I've seen someone put it on with the handle pointing towards the paddle, so it won't go around 360 degrees but fouls the woodwork). Point being, they must have come down the Claydon fight and I have no idea how they managed.

 

As we were heading down past Swanley last July a similar thing happened to us - three women looking, like they were on their way to a wedding and had got lost, turned up at the lock.  "I'm told we need this" she said, holding up a windlass.  The helmsman actually did a pretty decent job of geeting the hire boat in, given the bywash was running pretty fast, but they had not the first clue how to operate the lock and did the same thing with the windlass, inserting it the wrong way round.  

 

You always try to remember what your first experience was like, but I honestly don't think we were as green as some of the folk you meet these days. 

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My default is to have a word and hope that works. I knocked on the roof of a boat in front of me on the river at Stratford a few weeks ago, which was running its engine at about 9pm. Huge, new widebeam that had been occupied all day without any engine running. Bloke popped his head about and said it would just be for another half hour because he was watching the olympics on TV. I went off muttering. He must have thought about it after I’d gone because he shut the engine down about two minutes later. So being polite (and a bit brave) can work. As others have said, it would be good if there was a handy CaRT number or email we could use to report things if the polite word doesn’t work.

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I think uncertainty is the worst part. If an engine is running - at any time really, not just after 8 - and yet you know when it’s going to go off, it isn’t too bad. But if you don’t know, it’s a stressor because it could be hours and hours, all night etc etc.

 

I have once had to run the engine after 8 because we’d had a problem with my mother whilst we were moored in central birmingham. Finally got back to the boat at about 9pm but batteries were low. We were outside what are now the Sherborne Wharf services, nothing behind, one in front. I knocked on his door and when he came out (in his jim jams) I explained the problem and said I really needed to run the engine for 30mins, would that be OK? He said “fine, and thanks for asking”. But anyway our engine is so quiet he probably barely heard it as the bow was next to his boat.

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1 hour ago, MtB said:

 , and which way around to put the windlass on a spindle. (This was the second time this week I've seen someone put it on with the handle pointing towards the paddle, so it won't go around 360 degrees but fouls the woodwork). Point being, they must have come down the Claydon fight and I have no idea how they managed.

I had my Sister in Law and her husband onboard for 4 days and she was still putting the windlass on the wrong way round. Some people just cant grasp such things, she was keen but had to be corrected every time.


One thing that surprised me was steering, she had a go, standing on the counter, not in the hatches and was all over the show. I took over, when she had another try she stood in the hatch and was straight as a die. I think it was because her body was braced against the side of the hatch and not moving

4 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

I think uncertainty is the worst part. If an engine is running - at any time really, not just after 8 - and yet you know when it’s going to go off, it isn’t too bad. But if you don’t know, it’s a stressor because it could be hours and hours, all night etc etc.

 

I have once had to run the engine after 8 because we’d had a problem with my mother whilst we were moored in central birmingham. Finally got back to the boat at about 9pm but batteries were low. We were outside what are now the Sherborne Wharf services, nothing behind, one in front. I knocked on his door and when he came out (in his jim jams) I explained the problem and said I really needed to run the engine for 30mins, would that be OK? He said “fine, and thanks for asking”. But anyway our engine is so quiet he probably barely heard it as the bow was next to his boat.

Had a guy walk back to me at Shirley Draw bridge and said his batteries were knackered and he would like to run his engine,  he didn't run it too late and we could hardly hear it anyway.

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28 minutes ago, Proper Charlie said:

My default is to have a word and hope that works. I knocked on the roof of a boat in front of me on the river at Stratford a few weeks ago, which was running its engine at about 9pm. 

What words did you use ? How did you ask him to turn off the engine?

This is the bit many find difficult. How to approach someone?

What’s your advice?


 

I’m not so bothered if someone runs an engine late.

 

 

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11 minutes ago, Goliath said:

What words did you use ? How did you ask him to turn off the engine?

This is the bit many find difficult. How to approach someone?

What’s your advice?


 

I’m not so bothered if someone runs an engine late.

 

 

Curiously I'm not that bothered by the noise ether, its the obvious contempt the engine runner has for fellow boaters. 

 

What bothers me is perfectly within the rules. Its when someone fires up a noisy engine on a quiet and peaceful sunny Sunday afternoon or early evening in summer. Completely destroys the peace. 

 

 

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28 minutes ago, Goliath said:

What words did you use ? How did you ask him to turn off the engine?

This is the bit many find difficult. How to approach someone?

What’s your advice?


 

 

 

 

"Hi. Sorry to bother you. I'm from the next boat along and wondered if you'd mind turning your engine off as it's past 8pm?". Might be an idea to say you're trying to sleep, if you think you need to strengthen your case. Don't be aggressive. Don't swear. If you get a negative or threatening response, just walk away and think about contacting CaRT (assuming you can find an easy way to do so). Or move to a quieter spot, of course.

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37 minutes ago, Goliath said:

What words did you use ? How did you ask him to turn off the engine?

This is the bit many find difficult. How to approach someone?

What’s your advice?


 

I’m not so bothered if someone runs an engine late.

 

 

 

I don't think there's a script, it depends on the circumstances.  What you should do is approach on the assumption that there's a good reason for them doing it, and offer a way out.  For example - "I guess your batteries are running low - but are you going to run the engine for long, it is after 8pm?  

 

On one occasion our bow ie sitting room was right up against the stern of the other boat so it would have been a pain even during the day, but when I pointed this out to the guy he immediately apologised as he hadn't realised what an intrusion it was.

 

Another time it was 10pm., again the boat was right in front and the owners claimed ignorance of the 8 to 8 rule but I simply asked them if they were just going to bed and the boat next door started their engine, how would they feel - there's no answer to that, unless you are deaf.

 

The worst occasion though was actually on a marina.  It was actually almost 11pm., a still night and the noise was reverberating all round the place. Practically everyone on the landing came out to see what was going on, and a posse was assembled with the express intent of throwing the offender overboard.   I suspect someone nearer to the boat got to him/her before we did as the noise stopped after about ten minutes.   

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9 minutes ago, Proper Charlie said:

"Hi. Sorry to bother you. I'm from the next boat along and wondered if you'd mind turning your engine off as it's past 8pm?". Might be an idea to say you're trying to sleep, if you think you need to strengthen your case. Don't be aggressive. Don't swear. If you get a negative or threatening response, just walk away and think about contacting CaRT (assuming you can find an easy way to do so). Or move to a quieter spot, of course.

 Yep, true: if you get a negative response just walk away. 
 

I guess the proper thing to do is approach them before your blood pressure has reached the top, before you’re in a rage and not after an hour or so deliberating whether to knock or not. 
As has been said, it seems in most cases people are apologetic and turn the engine off. 
 

 

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4 hours ago, Cheese said:

I'll admit to once running the engine when moored after 8pm.  Some years ago we hired a boat with friends for a week over New Year. With an early-afternoon pickup, the usual faff getting used to a new boat, and a few locks, we hadn't gone very far on the first day before it was getting dark and we had to moor up.  It was then a long evening, and about 9pm the lights went out!  Possibly the boat had been sitting in the yard for 3 months unused, and the batteries were not well charged.  So we ran the engine for perhaps 30-45 minutes.  Being mid-winter there weren't many boats on the move, so I don't think we disturbed anyone - although one can never be sure if someone is moored just around the next bend.

 

For the rest of the week we were cruising all day, and it wasn't an issue.

And you were entirely within the rules, I believe. 

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