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K&A locks left empty?


Hwpa46

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I was walking from Gt. Bedwyn to Kintbury today and a westbound boater was emptying lock 72 having just ascended. Lock 73 had been left empty with bottom gates open. Is there a reason for doing this (the info board just says leave gates closed and paddles down)? I thought it might be to help someone who was following, but no-one was.

Graham

 

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Some K&A locks should be left empty and these should be signed (gates closed, paddle up). This is usually because they don't have a bywash so there has to be a route for the water to escape if it rains heavily (over the top gate then out through the open bottom paddle). If no rain is forecast and you are very unlikely to be the last boat of the day then its debatable about what should be done. A few locks are "leave empty" because they leak through the walls and flood the cellar of adjacent houses.

 

Its possible that the boater is new to the K&A and believes that all locks should be left empty, I think I have read this somewhere, maybe in an old guide book or an out of date/badly researched website?

 

Several of the locks built without a bywash have acquired a new bywash in recent years.

 

Its also possible he had another boat/friend traveling behind him, maybe a single hander, and was giving them a bit of help but should really only do this if you know that boat is right behind, especially on a busy canal.

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7 minutes ago, Martin Nicholas said:

The K&A is fed at that point by the Froxfield Feeder, so water supply is not an issue from there to the Thames.

 

 

I thought that whether gates are left open or closed on canals wasn't simply an issue of wasting water (most leak like sieves anyway) but also an issue of boating etiquette? It's 50/50 whether you'll help or hinder the next boater depending on if they're following you or coming in the opposite direction, but the consensus on this forum over the years is that unless otherwise stated all gates should be left shut.

 

Anyway I certainly wouldn't want to be in a position where a boat behind me catches up with me at a lock after I'd left the last 10 sets of lock gates open upon leaving. I think they'd be within their rights to be a bit p*ssed off with me.

7 minutes ago, Hwpa46 said:

Because I saw them leaving the top of the lock, one of the crew remaining behind to empty it! See my original query.

 

Ah sorry! Should have read it properly! 

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1 hour ago, dmr said:

Some K&A locks should be left empty and these should be signed (gates closed, paddle up). This is usually because they don't have a bywash so there has to be a route for the water to escape if it rains heavily (over the top gate then out through the open bottom paddle). If no rain is forecast and you are very unlikely to be the last boat of the day then its debatable about what should be done. A few locks are "leave empty" because they leak through the walls and flood the cellar of adjacent houses.

 

Its possible that the boater is new to the K&A and believes that all locks should be left empty, I think I have read this somewhere, maybe in an old guide book or an out of date/badly researched website?

 

Several of the locks built without a bywash have acquired a new bywash in recent years.

 

Its also possible he had another boat/friend traveling behind him, maybe a single hander, and was giving them a bit of help but should really only do this if you know that boat is right behind, especially on a busy canal.

Thank you; that seems plausible! G

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Unless things have changed very recently neither 72 or 73 have a bywash and I think both have signs saying leave empty???

and I suspect the lock house at Cobblers lock has a cellar of some sort as its built on sloping ground.

 

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45 minutes ago, dmr said:

Unless things have changed very recently neither 72 or 73 have a bywash and I think both have signs saying leave empty???

and I suspect the lock house at Cobblers lock has a cellar of some sort as its built on sloping ground.

 

Ah. Interesting. I maybe missed the sign. Cheers all. G

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Thinking more, Hungerford Lock might have a bywash, I have not been through it for a couple of years now, but it certainly had a leave empty sign. The K&A signs were good as they said "leave the lock empty with a paddle raised". Elsewhere on the system signs just say  "leave this lock empty" which causes a lot of confusion with a few boaters staying to empty the lock and then drop the paddles before moving on.

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4 hours ago, dmr said:

Unless things have changed very recently neither 72 or 73 have a bywash and I think both have signs saying leave empty???

and I suspect the lock house at Cobblers lock has a cellar of some sort as its built on sloping ground.

 

 

Swerving off at a tangent, Cobblers Lock cottage has changed hands yet again, the owners once again being defeated by the enormity of a total renovation project with no road access presumably.  Sold at auction about a month ago. 

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13 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

Swerving off at a tangent, Cobblers Lock cottage has changed hands yet again, the owners once again being defeated by the enormity of a total renovation project with no road access presumably.  Sold at auction about a month ago. 

 

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3 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

Swerving off at a tangent, Cobblers Lock cottage has changed hands yet again, the owners once again being defeated by the enormity of a total renovation project with no road access presumably.  Sold at auction about a month ago. 

 

How much did it sell for this time?

First time it sold it went for Much less than I expected, I wish I had tried to buy it myself.

It was likely in much better condition then before it was left empty and all the pipes n wires stolen.

Air BnB is a new factor for properties like this, I see the lovely cottage at the very top of the Oxford Claydon flight is now Air BnB and looks pretty spectacular inside. This also has no access except walking along the towpath. The lock house just below the Crofton lock flight also has no road access and they do ok, bringing shopping in on a little raft with an outboard, it just needs a bit of imagination.

The Cobblers lock cottage looked structurally sound (at a first glance) but is built on a slope and does have buttresses out the front so maybe its got a big problem?

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7 minutes ago, dmr said:

The Cobblers lock cottage looked structurally sound (at a first glance)

 

My impression is the exact opposite. An unmortgageable structural disaster area.

 

I have no eye deer what it sold for, never even noted who the auctioneers were. I can't explain how so Just Not Interested I am in monumental money-pit projects like that. They always get sold to people who totally underestimate the enormity of the project. 

 

The thing I notice about so many lock cottages is how much security they seem to feel they need. This really puts me off. 

Edited by MtB
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11 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

My impression is the exact opposite. An unmortgageable structural disaster area.

 

I have no eye deer what it sold for, never even noted who the auctioneers were. I can't explain how so Just Not Interested I am in monumental money-pit projects like that. They always get sold to people who totally underestimate the enormity of the project. 

 

The thing I notice about so many lock cottages is how much security they seem to feel they need. This really puts me off. 

 

Its interesting that there is a security issue at Cobblers, Hungerford is a mostly wealthy genteel ok place (though only one of two places we have had stuff nicked off the boat) and the cottage is nicely out of the way. I wonder if one of the neighbours is running an intimidation campaign?????? How did the folk who nicked all the pipes n wires make their getaway????

In my heart I am still up for big projects but my heart still says I'm still 27...whilst my head says I'm Well past 60 😀.

The still not happening marina is also a possible factor in the value of that place.

I lived in a house with spectacular subsidence and still sold it at a good profit, water frontage trumps structural problems 😀.

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1 minute ago, dmr said:

I lived in a house with spectacular subsidence and still sold it at a good profit, water frontage trumps structural problems 😀.

 

Yes, this is the same thing as the "bigger fool" hypothesis in investment. Applies to Bitcoin, Tesla, the Seraphim "space" investment trust, property, and all manner of other risky securities. 

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7 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

Yes, this is the same thing as the "bigger fool" hypothesis in investment. Applies to Bitcoin, Tesla, the Seraphim "space" investment trust, property, and all manner of other risky securities. 

 

When I paid well over the odds for the property the surveyor/valuer concluded something like "the asking price is much higher than the value of the property but it will almost certainly sell for that price" 😀 Its a bit like those Hudsons and Northwich Traders, they ALWAYS sell or much more than they are worth 😀

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13 minutes ago, dmr said:

 

When I paid well over the odds for the property the surveyor/valuer concluded something like "the asking price is much higher than the value of the property but it will almost certainly sell for that price" 😀 Its a bit like those Hudsons and Northwich Traders, they ALWAYS sell or much more than they are worth 😀

 

Yes. When I first applied for a mortgage on a house the BS manager called me in for an interview. He explained the Victorian terrace in a good bit of Surrey I was wanting to buy for £6,000 was poorly built and would only ever decline in value, so he was rejecting my mortgage application. The fckwad. 

 

I drove past it the other day and it happened to be for sale, at £350k. How wrong was he? 

 

We all have one that really hurts..... 

 

Edit: It was about three years ago actually, prolly worth £500k now.  

Edited by MtB
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Going back to the locks:   

GU and K&A locks were built with an "internal" bywash  this worked by using the top paddle chambers to pass water into the lock and over the bottom gates which were slightly lower than the top of the chambers this set the weir level on the pound above.

However

Due to some incompetence by BW bottom gates were built higher than the originals, this meant that it raised the level in the pound above. One way round this was to leave the bottom paddles up when exiting the lock.

 

It used to be a common sight on the lower GU to see water cascading over the bottom gates as the bywash was working as intended. Also you could pass a boat that was going downhill only to find that the lock has refilled itself by the time you arrived😟

 

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25 minutes ago, Loddon said:

Going back to the locks:   

GU and K&A locks were built with an "internal" bywash  this worked by using the top paddle chambers to pass water into the lock and over the bottom gates which were slightly lower than the top of the chambers this set the weir level on the pound above.

However

Due to some incompetence by BW bottom gates were built higher than the originals, this meant that it raised the level in the pound above. One way round this was to leave the bottom paddles up when exiting the lock.

 

It used to be a common sight on the lower GU to see water cascading over the bottom gates as the bywash was working as intended. Also you could pass a boat that was going downhill only to find that the lock has refilled itself by the time you arrived😟

 

That is interesting. I do recall that on the GU.

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36 minutes ago, Loddon said:

GU and K&A locks were built with an "internal" bywash  this worked by using the top paddle chambers to pass water into the lock and over the bottom gates which were slightly lower than the top of the chambers this set the weir level on the pound above.

Locks on the Stratford (and probably elsewhere where the bottom end has ground paddles) had this arrangement at top and bottom ends. So any overflowing water passed through the lock, and locks left empty (with the gates closed) would tend to refill. Which may be annoying for someone travelling uphill, but does save water and keep both sets of gates wet.

 

BW added conventional bywashes, some of which are on the towpath side, presumably for reasons of access and land availability.

Edited by David Mack
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2 hours ago, Loddon said:

Going back to the locks:   

GU and K&A locks were built with an "internal" bywash  this worked by using the top paddle chambers to pass water into the lock and over the bottom gates which were slightly lower than the top of the chambers this set the weir level on the pound above.

However

Due to some incompetence by BW bottom gates were built higher than the originals, this meant that it raised the level in the pound above. One way round this was to leave the bottom paddles up when exiting the lock.

 

It used to be a common sight on the lower GU to see water cascading over the bottom gates as the bywash was working as intended. Also you could pass a boat that was going downhill only to find that the lock has refilled itself by the time you arrived😟

 

Wasn't that very true on the Caen Hill flight.

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