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Buying an old boat


JustinS

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Hi there, I’m thinking of buying a 1988 40ft narrow boat. It’s currently on offer for £14000 but the hull needs overplating. Everything else seems in order, a few minor things inside I can do myself as I will be refitting the interior. I’m after advice as to where to take it for overplating, if it’s worth it etc etc . Other people’s experiences with similar projects and so on. 
many thanks, 

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9 minutes ago, JustinS said:

Hi there, I’m thinking of buying a 1988 40ft narrow boat. It’s currently on offer for £14000 but the hull needs overplating. Everything else seems in order, a few minor things inside I can do myself as I will be refitting the interior. I’m after advice as to where to take it for overplating, if it’s worth it etc etc . Other people’s experiences with similar projects and so on. 
many thanks, 

£14K and + £10K of properly done overplating, blacking etc. and other TLC, its too dear.

I know of a 1986 40' from a respected builder that does not need anything other than blacking which just sold for £20K

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An overplated boat will always be worth less than others. If you are doing a complete stripout and refit, then it may be worth getting the bottom plate and lower hull sides cut out and replaced rather than just overplated. That will give you an almost good-as-new hull.  

But as to whether it is worth it, that is another question. And doing a complete refit is as much work as fitting out a new shell. 

I'm minded to agree with Tracy that for what it will cost you in total there are probably better boats about.

Edited by David Mack
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16 minutes ago, matty40s said:

Which area is the boat in, or doesnt this matter?

Near Abergavenny but I don’t mind within reason...

6 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

£14K and + £10K of properly done overplating, blacking etc. and other TLC, its too dear.

I know of a 1986 40' from a respected builder that does not need anything other than blacking which just sold for £20K

Yea, from research I’ve been doing I think it’s overpriced, was thinking of offering £10,000 tops. The refit is something I’d like to do so I’m not to worried about that side of things. 

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How do you know it needs overplating?  If it's because a surveyor has "condemned" it the chances are he/she has uncovered a significant number of pits in the steel that are too deep.  But, you can't possibly know what the overall condition of the boat is without getting the thing blasted back to bare metal.   This could go one of three ways - it's not as bad as feared, and it's feasible to fill/weld the pits, or that could be impractical and the baseplate and possible the hull sides need overplating, or worst outcome it is a basket case and beyond economic repair.  

 

So you could have a bargain or you could be throwing your money away and left with a major liability. 

 

One other consideration is that with a shortish boat any overplating will have a disproportionate effect on the draught and you will almost certainly have to remove some of the ballast.  That is rarely easy on most boats, but no big deal if it's a complete refit of course.  

 

I don't have the same aversion to overplating that some members of the forum do as I think under the right circumstances it can be the cheapest way of getting a boat, but I wouldn't recommend it on a boat as short as 40 foot simply because the chances of selling it on are much reduced compared to say a 50 footer.  Having said that, the way the market is at the moment it seems almost anything that floats is viable, but how long that will last is debatable. 

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A point to bear in mind is that you will only be able to overplate with 6mm steel. 5 mm will give you insufficient thickness to stand any pits without going below the 4mm comprehensive insurance threshold.

Any thicker than 6mm, the boat, being short won't carry the weight, there won't be enough ballast that can be removed.

 

So if you had say an 8mm bottom boat, you now have only a 6mm bottomed boat, and its value and selling potential is severely reduced.

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Just now, Graham Davis said:

 

Do you intend keeping it on the B & M or are you taking into account the cost of road transport to the main system?

And to me that seems to be very over priced.

I would keep it there for now. Yes I agree, I think £8000 to £9000 would be fair considering what needs doing and transport/storage costs until it can be done. Technically it’s scrap until the work is done!! 

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39 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

If you want an old boat maybe the one on here https://auctionnews.com/auction/2912/Wide-Range-of-Craft-Many-with-Conversion-Potential-Boat-Spares-and-Grounds-Equipment There is even an Aluminium hull

Ah, the Red Hill Field of Broken Dreams auctions....

All I can say is those boats are on land for a reason

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41 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

If you want an old boat maybe the one on here https://auctionnews.com/auction/2912/Wide-Range-of-Craft-Many-with-Conversion-Potential-Boat-Spares-and-Grounds-Equipment There is even an Aluminium hull

 

The ally hull is a Sea Otter - wonder what happened to the rest of it?

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1 minute ago, matty40s said:

Ah, the Red Hill Field of Broken Dreams auctions....

All I can say is those boats are on land for a reason

Is the aluminium one the one that caught fire at/near Braunston

2 minutes ago, Neil2 said:

 

The ally hull is a Sea Otter - wonder what happened to the rest of it?

This maybe http://jhalfie.blogspot.com/2017/06/sea-otter-shows-how-aluminium-burns.html

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1 hour ago, JustinS said:

I would keep it there for now. Yes I agree, I think £8000 to £9000 would be fair considering what needs doing and transport/storage costs until it can be done. Technically it’s scrap until the work is done!! 

 

Exactly.

 

I remember a horror story related to me by the guys at Debdale Wharf, a customer brought in a narrowboat for zinc coating but when they started the blasting the hull turned into a colander, in fact much of it was only held together by the blacking.  

 

 

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2 hours ago, Neil2 said:

How do you know it needs overplating?  If it's because a surveyor has "condemned" it the chances are he/she has uncovered a significant number of pits in the steel that are too deep.  But, you can't possibly know what the overall condition of the boat is without getting the thing blasted back to bare metal.   This could go one of three ways - it's not as bad as feared, and it's feasible to fill/weld the pits, or that could be impractical and the baseplate and possible the hull sides need overplating, or worst outcome it is a basket case and beyond economic repair.  

 

So you could have a bargain or you could be throwing your money away and left with a major liability. 

 

One other consideration is that with a shortish boat any overplating will have a disproportionate effect on the draught and you will almost certainly have to remove some of the ballast.  That is rarely easy on most boats, but no big deal if it's a complete refit of course.  

 

I don't have the same aversion to overplating that some members of the forum do as I think under the right circumstances it can be the cheapest way of getting a boat, but I wouldn't recommend it on a boat as short as 40 foot simply because the chances of selling it on are much reduced compared to say a 50 footer.  Having said that, the way the market is at the moment it seems almost anything that floats is viable, but how long that will last is debatable. 

I’m just going by the surveyors report....

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21 hours ago, David Mack said:

An overplated boat will always be worth less than others. If you are doing a complete stripout and refit, then it may be worth getting the bottom plate and lower hull sides cut out and replaced rather than just overplated. That will give you an almost good-as-new hull.  

But as to whether it is worth it, that is another question. And doing a complete refit is as much work as fitting out a new shell. 

I'm minded to agree with Tracy that for what it will cost you in total there are probably better boats about.

Serious question - can you get '..lower hull sides cut out..'? Would that be conditional on a strip out and refit? Presumably interior fittings are fixed to whatever which in turn are fitted to the hull. It would all fall down when the hull is cut out. Sounds a bit like building a boat from scratch (almost) - you'd only have a few original bits to work with.

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  • 2 months later...
On 24/08/2021 at 19:53, JustinS said:

Hi there, I’m thinking of buying a 1988 40ft narrow boat. It’s currently on offer for £14000 but the hull needs overplating. Everything else seems in order, a few minor things inside I can do myself as I will be refitting the interior. I’m after advice as to where to take it for overplating, if it’s worth it etc etc . Other people’s experiences with similar projects and so on. 
many thanks, 

Is that Isabella? I saw her when walking at Goytre a couple of weeks ago, but I think she was up for £20k. She didn't look terribly promising to a complete novice but I can't find her listing now so maybe someone bought her.

 

Although her listing said last blacked in 1996 so maybe she sank...

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Much depends on the boat. For example a 40 ft Springer has a ceiling value of maybe £20,000 give or take a few thousand.  A 40` quality boat could have a ceiling of twice that. Overplating one is worth the effort, one is barely worth the effort, they will both cost the same to overplate.  in fact one is chucking good money after bad, one could be an investment. All that is terribly simplified but you can see what I mean. 

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