Lack of maintenance

[Arthur Marshall]

11 hours ago, Ronaldo47 said:

It could be effectively over 100% for one year,  I think 1949 or 1950, because for the very wealthy there was a tax on capital on top of the 95% income tax, levied on the interest from savings and other unearned income.  

Dreadful. No wonder we changed it. After all  all we got out of it in the 50s, 60s and 70s was a decent health service, schools,  enough police on the street to work effectively, decent housing at affordable prices, work that paid enough to live on...

[Athy]

13 hours ago, Neil2 said:

 

Why the hell not? 

 

 

Because to enforce it you'd have to employ lots of people, who would of course cost lots of money, so it would not be economically viable..

 

 

 

 

11 hours ago, Ronaldo47 said:

It could be effectively over 100% for one year,  I think 1949 or 1950, because for the very wealthy there was a tax on capital on top of the 95% income tax,

Wasn't it called surtax? I remember my Dad talking about it (not that he had to pay it).

[Neil2]

40 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Dreadful. No wonder we changed it. After all  all we got out of it in the 50s, 60s and 70s was a decent health service, schools,  enough police on the street to work effectively, decent housing at affordable prices, work that paid enough to live on...

 

And we had test cricket on terrestrial TV...

 

  

 

 

[Athy]

20 minutes ago, Neil2 said:

 

And we had test cricket on terrestrial TV...

 

  

 

 

Indeed so.

At least, this year, the B.B.C. has shown a couple of T20 games and most of the Hundred. But test matches remain resolutely on council house T.V. I continue to listen to it on the radio and to watch the B.B.C.'s highlights (with great relish yesterday evening).

[Neil2]

2 minutes ago, Athy said:

Indeed so.

At least, this year, the B.B.C. has shown a couple of T20 games and most of the Hundred. But test matches remain resolutely on council house T.V. I continue to listen to it on the radio and to watch the B.B.C.'s highlights (with great relish yesterday evening).

 

I should have said don't get me started... 

 

It was bad enough that a Labour government presided over the ECB sell out, but for a Yorkshire MP to give his blessing to it - never mind not fighting it all the way - I hope Caborn has sleepless nights over it when he sees our current team packed with ex public schoolboys.

 

At least we still have  jimmy Jimmy Jimmy Jimmie Anderson.........  

 

 

[Athy]

7 minutes ago, Neil2 said:

 

I should have said don't get me started... 

 

It was bad enough that a Labour government presided over the ECB sell out, but for a Yorkshire MP to give his blessing to it - never mind not fighting it all the way - I hope Caborn has sleepless nights over it when he sees our current team packed with ex public schoolboys.

 

At least we still have  jimmy Jimmy Jimmy Jimmie Anderson.........  

 

 

I have no knowledge of any politics behind Test cricket leaving terrestrial T.V. I thought that Sky simply offered more money for the rights than the B.B.C. was able or willing to pay.

   What is wrong with ex-public schoolboys playing for England? It's scarcely a novelty. I haven't time to check the biographies of all the current team, but I think of Ted Dexter (Radley), Colin Cowdrey (Tonbridge) and Peter May (Charterhouse). I'm sure that there were many others in that era. Independent schools often employ current or former professional players as cricket coaches, which gives boys (and, these days, girls) an advantage during their formative years.

Edited August 26, 2021 by Athy

[Neil2]

2 minutes ago, Athy said:

I have no knowledge of any politics behind Test cricket leaving terrestrial T.V. I thought that Sky simply offered more money for the rights than the B.B.C. was able or willing to pay.

 

Absolutely not.  It's complicated but Cricket used to enjoy "protected status" - that's how we still have the Olympics, Wimbledon etc. on free to air.

 

The ECB lobbied to get this status removed because of the revenue potential if they were free to sell to the highest bidder. 

 

But when the protected status was removed there was a lot of uncertainty as to what had actually been agreed. Chris Smith was Labours culture secretary at the time and tried to wriggle out of it by claiming he had agreed there would still be some protection.  It ended up IIRC with a Special Inquiry, at the time when Richard Caborn was sports minister.  Instead of siding with and defending Smith he effectively washed his hands of it, and as neither BBC or channel 4 could possibly compete with Sky it left the ECB to negotiate freely with them.  

 

It was highly political.  

[Athy]

21 minutes ago, Neil2 said:

 

Absolutely not. 

The rest of your post shows, absolutely yes. The TCCB (as I think it was called then) wanted a higher fee, the Beeb couldn't offer the sum they wanted but Sky could.

[Hudds Lad]

1 hour ago, Athy said:

But test matches remain resolutely on council house T.V.

I don’t think this means what you think it means, at least not round here.

 

eg: tap water was often referred to as Duck Wine or Council Pop due it being practically free, therefore Council House TV would refer to terrestrial or free (minus licence if you bother) TV?

[Athy]

6 minutes ago, Hudds Lad said:

I don’t think this means what you think it means, at least not round here.

 

eg: tap water was often referred to as Duck Wine or Council Pop due it being practically free, therefore Council House TV would refer to terrestrial or free (minus licence if you bother) TV?

Au contraire.

When Sky and BSB first came out, their subscriptions were fairly expensive. Yet their aerials were often seen on the walls or roofs of council houses, whose inhabitants were typically fairly low paid. How could this be?

   The answer went something like this: let's say that Dad and his two lads liked going to watch the local premier league (probably still called First Division at that time) soccer club. The price of season tickets for three people was considerable; so Dad worked out that a big-screen colour telly and a Sky subscription cost far less. Hence, far from lashing out money on luxuries, he was in fact prudently making economies. You didn't get rain or mass punch-ups in your living room, either.

   That's how it was explained to me, and it makes perfect sense.

 

While we're on colourful local expressions, do 'udderfield 'ouses 'ave a "dog shelf", as Derbyshire ones do?

[Neil2]

17 minutes ago, Athy said:

The rest of your post shows, absolutely yes. The TCCB (as I think it was called then) wanted a higher fee, the Beeb couldn't offer the sum they wanted but Sky could.

 

You're missing the point.  It was the government agreeing to remove cricket from the protected status it used to have that allowed the ECB, whatever, to sell out.  This might have had - did have - an immediate appeal to those who wanted to inject more money into the game, but it was pretty obvious what would happen long term, that without free to air coverage the sport would lose its place in our culture.  It was seen by some as an opportunity to inject much needed finance into the sport, and if Chris Smith is to be believed, he struck a deal which meant we could have our cake and eat it.  His argument was that the ECB had broken a "gentleman's agreement" that they would still allow the BBC a certain amount of coverage, but his mistake was not getting it properly tied up.  I think Caborn should have backed his colleague, but he had ambitions of his own.    

 

There's nothing inherently wrong with cricketers coming from a public school background, but when most of the national team do it does rather suggest that you need to have the means to fund a private education to make it to the highest level.  That does not bear out the original intent of the ECB sell out - to direct more resources to the "grass roots".

[Athy]

4 minutes ago, Neil2 said:

 

You're missing the point. The ECD said they needed more money, the Beed couldn't/wouldn't pay it, so the government took steps to ensure that they had a means of achieving their wish.

No, I don't think so. 

[Athy]

7 minutes ago, Neil2 said:

 

 

 

There's nothing inherently wrong with cricketers coming from a public school background, but when most of the national team do.....

But do they? Have you counted them? As aforementioned, I haven't, but as I've now finished the piece of Real Paid Work which I had to do, I'll have a look.

[Stroudwater1]

39 minutes ago, Hudds Lad said:

I don’t think this means what you think it means, at least not round here.

 

eg: tap water was often referred to as Duck Wine or Council Pop due it being practically free, therefore Council House TV would refer to terrestrial or free (minus licence if you bother) TV?

Ahh the good folk of Worcester had a shock many years ago when the local  posh restaurant listed "Chateau d'eau" on their wine list, it fooled a few young suitors choosing the cheapest wine option, but it fell foul of some reg somewhere sadly. 

 

 

[Hudds Lad]

26 minutes ago, Athy said:

Au contraire.

When Sky and BSB first came out, their subscriptions were fairly expensive. Yet their aerials were often seen on the walls or roofs of council houses, whose inhabitants were typically fairly low paid. How could this be?

   The answer went something like this: let's say that Dad and his two lads liked going to watch the local premier league (probably still called First Division at that time) soccer club. The price of season tickets for three people was considerable; so Dad worked out that a big-screen colour telly and a Sky subscription cost far less. Hence, far from lashing out money on luxuries, he was in fact prudently making economies. You didn't get rain or mass punch-ups in your living room, either.

   That's how it was explained to me, and it makes perfect sense.

 

While we're on colourful local expressions, do 'udderfield 'ouses 'ave a "dog shelf", as Derbyshire ones do?

Interesting, i bow to your superior knowledge. Don’t know about when they first came out, but it’s still bloody expensive now  

 

In my youth i was often told to “get off’t dog shelf” whilst watching Survival or something on the tv, but at that age laying belly down with your lower legs up in the air was the most comfortable thing in the world (plus the Airedale we had would snuggle up too).

 

[Neil2]

14 minutes ago, Athy said:

But do they? Have you counted them? As aforementioned, I haven't, but as I've now finished the piece of Real Paid Work which I had to do, I'll have a look.

 

I'm pretty sure that of the current test XI only Moeen Ali and James Anderson came through the  state school system.

[Athy]

4 minutes ago, Neil2 said:

 

I'm pretty sure that of the current test XI only Moeen Ali and James Anderson came through the  state school system.

Interesting. I was looking a few up. Of course, that doesn't necessarily mean their families were rich: I think that Joe Root, for example, went to a state secondary school but gota scholarship to a private sixth form college, meaning that his parents paid no or greatly reduced fees.

   You seem somehow to disapprove of professional cricketers coming through the independent educational system. Does this disapproval extend to those who went to universities, which weren't fee-paying when I went there but which are now?

[Neil2]

7 hours ago, Athy said:

Interesting. I was looking a few up. Of course, that doesn't necessarily mean their families were rich: I think that Joe Root, for example, went to a state secondary school but gota scholarship to a private sixth form college, meaning that his parents paid no or greatly reduced fees.

   You seem somehow to disapprove of professional cricketers coming through the independent educational system. Does this disapproval extend to those who went to universities, which weren't fee-paying when I went there but which are now?

 

I don't disapprove, I just think it's both unjust and unsustainable to rely on the independents.  

 

What concerns me most is that if you think of all the hostile fast bowlers England have produced over the years, I don't think there's a single one that was educated privately.  There's so much talk about the flaky English batting but look what happens when the bowlers skittle the opposition out.  India made a big mistake making James Anderson angry, he inspired the other guys to perform out of their skin and what a different side they look.  But how much longer can we rely on Anderson?  The selectors are holding their breath and hoping Archer gets fit and Mark Wood can avoid injury, we have zero strength in depth.  

 

That cliche about shout down the nearest coal mine when you need a fast bowler has a ring of truth about it.  The likes of Larwood, Bowes, Trueman, Tyson and Snow all came from a background of hard manual labour, those days are gone but I can't see the playing fields of Eton spawning a pace bowler capable of putting the wind up the Australians.   

[Tom766]

Here's a reality check. The amount of population in this country not paying taxes is growing daily by the thousand. 

The future is rosy, well done ms Patel. And of course the indeginous workshy... 

[Wanderer Vagabond]

Just now, Tom766 said:

Here's a reality check. The amount of population in this country not paying taxes is growing daily by the thousand. 

The future is rosy, well done ms Patel. And of course the indeginous workshy... 

Can you tell me how anyone can avoid paying VAT and Fuel Duty?

[Tom766]

Always one isn't there

[Tracy D'arth]

8 minutes ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

Can you tell me how anyone can avoid paying VAT and Fuel Duty?

 

Just now, Tracy D'arth said:

Simple, the black and ghetto economies.  Some "societies" in the UK pay nothing into the economy, its all barter or knock off under the table, in the mosque, in the betting shop, pub.

 

Where have you been for the last 50 years?

 

Edited August 26, 2021 by Tracy D'arth

[Wanderer Vagabond]

2 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

 

 

Evidence? or anecdotal?

[Tracy D'arth]

1 minute ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

Evidence? or anecdotal?

It life man, but not as some of us know it.  Whole areas of cities are a closed book to the likes of us. I used to work Liverpool, Manchester, Salford, Birmingham. Bradford, Sheffield, Barnsley etc.

Getting money was impossible some days. Our engineers used to be offered clothes, shoes, meat, electronics, bikes etc.  I got offered a car one day! And a hair do another!

[Wanderer Vagabond]

2 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

It life man, but not as some of us know it.  Whole areas of cities are a closed book to the likes of us. I used to work Liverpool, Manchester, Salford, Birmingham. Bradford, Sheffield, Barnsley etc.

Getting money was impossible some days. Our engineers used to be offered clothes, shoes, meat, electronics, bikes etc.  I got offered a car one day! And a hair do another!

And the fuel for the car? with no fuel duty??