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Mooring needed. Cheshire East preferred. And ideally within 30 minutes of Stoke...


northern

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6 hours ago, MtB said:

 

I too was wondering this. I can't think of any! 

I thought that first time buyers (which we are talking about I believe) still get stamp duty reduction) and also a bricks and mortar home is not subject to capital gains (up to a limit) in the way that a boat will be, at the same level of cost. 

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2 hours ago, Mike Todd said:

I thought that first time buyers (which we are talking about I believe) still get stamp duty reduction) and also a bricks and mortar home is not subject to capital gains (up to a limit) in the way that a boat will be, at the same level of cost. 

 

Wrong again Mike, boats are not subject to CGT, certainly not boats for personal use.

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36 minutes ago, Neil2 said:

 

Wrong again Mike, boats are not subject to CGT, certainly not boats for personal use.

I doubt that CGT on a boat -- relatively cheap, value static or falling over time -- is at all significant compared to CGT on a house -- expensive, value inevitably rises over time.

 

Lots of people have made capital gains of hundreds of thousands of pounds on houses, even perfectly normal ones. Has this *ever* happened to *any* boat on the inland waterways?

Edited by IanD
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54 minutes ago, IanD said:

I doubt that CGT on a boat -- relatively cheap, value static or falling over time -- is at all significant compared to CGT on a house -- expensive, value inevitably rises over time.

 

Lots of people have made capital gains of hundreds of thousands of pounds on houses, even perfectly normal ones. Has this *ever* happened to *any* boat on the inland waterways?

The notion of making 'hundreds of thousands' on a property needs unpacking. If you are moving house and sell at £300K, having bought 20 years ago at £150K and then buy a broadly identical property for £300K, have you really made a gain? I know that some people have, in their normal course of living,  gained from house prices rising more than general inflation, I just wish it had happened to me! We have pretty much got back what we put in - whilst we made a (tiny) gain, but not loss, on selling a narrowboat.  Generally, the only people to benefit from a capital gain on a main property are the beneficiaries of one's will - and inheritance tax takes care of that! (or should do)

 

NB One should not confuse value with price - the value of a property may well stay the same even if the price increases. 

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The Chandlery in Stone closed pre-Covid. I noticed it had become a bike shop but didn't want to cause a rumpus by announcing it. Last time I passed I noticed that they are advertising that they still sell diesel.

 

Penkridge Midland Chandlers has been taken on by someone who has plans to run a chandlery from the building. I think he said initially online but may reopen the shop eventually. I've driven there a few times when in need of parts but I suspect the footfall wasn't huge. I think the nearest larger place is now at Willington or possibly Norbury depending on what you are after

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9 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

The notion of making 'hundreds of thousands' on a property needs unpacking. If you are moving house and sell at £300K, having bought 20 years ago at £150K and then buy a broadly identical property for £300K, have you really made a gain? I know that some people have, in their normal course of living,  gained from house prices rising more than general inflation, I just wish it had happened to me! We have pretty much got back what we put in - whilst we made a (tiny) gain, but not loss, on selling a narrowboat.  Generally, the only people to benefit from a capital gain on a main property are the beneficiaries of one's will - and inheritance tax takes care of that! (or should do)

 

NB One should not confuse value with price - the value of a property may well stay the same even if the price increases. 

Many people have given numbers on this forum of a house price going up by 10x or more over a period, which is *way* more than inflation or the interest you could have earned on the purchase price over the same period. What you paid in mortgage payments is a red herring, you'd probably have paid more in rental, and you can view this as the "cost of living in a house" which isn't free.

 

If you sell this and buy another at the same price, you've still made a (non-taxed) capital gain when you come to finally sell up. If you'd made the same amount of money on investments in shares you'd be taxed on it, but because it's your house you're not.

 

To take an example, let's say that renting and a mortgage cost the same, and both start off with £100k in capital. The renter invests it (e.g. in stocks), and by the end of 10 years these have doubled in value to £200k. He sells them and is hit with CGT on the increase, maybe £30k depending on income, allowances etc, so net gain is £70k. At the end he's still renting.

 

Compare this to the buyer who uses the £100k to buy a house, which increases to £300k over the same 10 years (because house prices yield more). He then sells it and pockets the £200k tax free and goes back to renting, having netted £200k.

 

They both started off in the same position (renting) and ended up in the same position (renting), but the renter is £70k better off from investing in stocks (having paid £30k in tax to HMRC) and the buyer is £200k better off (having paid nothing) from investing in housing. So in the buyer's case HMRC is £30k worse off and the buyer is £130k better off compared to the renter. You could justifiably say that £30k of this is a direct subsidy to the buyer from HMRC which can't be used to pay for other things valuable to society (e.g. affordable housing), and £100k on top of this is pure profit from investing in housing which must have come from subsequent buyers because money doesn't grow on trees.

 

All of which is why investing in housing in the UK -- even if it's only the house you live in -- is such a good idea financially, and why almost everybody wants to get on the "property ladder" -- property gain is under-taxed compared to pretty much all other forms of income.

 

On houses you don't live in (BtL) the situation is different, rents usually cover mortgage payments (or sometimes exceed them) and the landlord will pay CGT when he eventually sells the house, but in spite of this the yield has historically been better than almost any other form of investment (including pensions nowadays) -- because if it wasn't, people wouldn't be doing it to fund their retirement.

 

So in both cases -- primary residence or BtL -- the way that property is taxed in the UK makes it pretty much the best investment there is, and for those already on the ladder this is true no matter how much the prices go up -- in fact higher prices just means more profit.

 

Profit isn't always a dirty word, after all money makes the world go round. But there's definitely a touch of "greed is good" here, because the "haves" (property owners) make the profit at the expense of the "have-nots" (tenants) who are excluded from joining the merry-go-round more and more as prices keep going up. And they're doing it not by selling some goods or service, but out of a basic human need to have a decent place to live.

 

But then prioritising property ownership has been a cornerstone of Britain for hundreds of years, so this isn't a great surprise. At least nowadays you can vote without owning it...

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You can stick up to £20k a year in a stocks and shares ISA and whatever you make is free of CGT.  Far more tax efficient than making money out of property.  And the stock market has historically beaten the housing market too.

 

And once you max your £20k allowance and invest in stocks and shares using a normal trading account or investment fund there's a further threshold of £12,300 before CGT is payable.

 

I visited the moorings by the lock at Aqueduct Marina.  They only rent the moorings to family and friends.  I also checked the property a little further down and whilst they own the mooring rights wouldn't be interested in letting it.  Both were very pleasant and helpful nonetheless.

 

Then on to Wrenbury.  I knew of the moorings before now and hadn't paid them much attention.  But on visiting I thought that, with Alan's feedback in mind, perhaps it was a mirage or my tea had been spiked with hallucinogenic substances, since it was a very well kept online mooring with plentiful off road parking, hook-up, water and elsan point.  Fortunately it turned out to be real and I'm not the only one with such outlandish requirements, and I'm now on their waiting list too.

Edited by northern
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I'm in at Swanley and even have a choice of 2 berths!

 

I spoke with Stretton Boatyard who I've used for craning in the past, to see if they've space.  They haven't but were massively helpful with a load of other suggestions, some of which I'd never heard of.  Very grateful to them.

 

Heritage Marina also has spaces too if anyone's interested but you need to pay a year up front.  Deposits or quarterly payments aren't accepted due to no-shows.

 

Thanks.

  • Greenie 1
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22 minutes ago, northern said:

I'm in at Swanley and even have a choice of 2 berths!

 

I spoke with Stretton Boatyard who I've used for craning in the past, to see if they've space.  They haven't but were massively helpful with a load of other suggestions, some of which I'd never heard of.  Very grateful to them.

 

Heritage Marina also has spaces too if anyone's interested but you need to pay a year up front.  Deposits or quarterly payments aren't accepted due to no-shows.

 

Thanks.

 

Pleased to hear you got sorted.  A friend from Canada, Doug, keeps his boat there on the hard, he moved from Aqueduct and much prefers Swanley.  

 

  • Greenie 1
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Aqueduct's fine but I can't reconcile the price against other marinas close by.  There's nothing there that I've seen which justifies the extra cost.

 

I moored at farm moorings at Swanley Bridge last year.  They were great.  Hookup, water, patio area for each mooring, secure access.  But nobody in the last 12 months has moved off.  I think there's around 10 boats there.  That's where I'm hoping to get to eventually, when there's a space.

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2 hours ago, Tracy D'arth said:

I always hankered after a mooring at Stoke Boat Club but its dead mans shoes to get in there.

 

I have a friend who owns a private mooring just before the arm, lucky sod, it's the perfect location even if he does have to empty the tanks on his Hudson to get there... 

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