Aqualine Canterbury - advice please from you kind people!

[Alan de Enfield]

1 minute ago, Tracy D'arth said:

running a business from the marina may well not be allowed.

 

That is an excellent point - amy marina I have used has had a clause in their T&Cs to that effect.

[Tracy D'arth]

1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

That is an excellent point - amy marina I have used has had a clause in their T&Cs to that effect.

Snap.  Most won't even allow mail collections.  All I have ever known charge outside contractors an entrance fee, demand insurance and some even want a percentage of the bill for the work. The chance of a marina tolerating a stream of visitors doing business on a boat moored there are I should think, nil. 

[Alan de Enfield]

Are we takking about Brentford Dock Marina ?

 

If so, you need to especially careful as their website clearly states the do not offer residential moorings.

Whatever the Dock Master says, if you are residential and its not allowed you could be kicked-out on a moments notice.

 

AND they specifically make note that :

 

 

• Please be advised that these are leisure moorings and that you are entitled to stay on your boat for not more than four nights in any 7 day period.

 

 

Edited August 21, 2021 by Alan de Enfield

[Patrick Wyatt]

12 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

A very good point and I think you are right. ISTR there is actually a very long, very old thread on here by someone who was getting evicted from Brentford Lock specifically because they were running their business from the boat. 

Ok, thank you. My business is located in Hatton Garden so I would need to speak to the Harbourmaster. I can always meet people at a nearby hostelry if necessary. Many of my clients are my friends too!

6 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Snap.  Most won't even allow mail collections.  All I have ever known charge outside contractors an entrance fee, demand insurance and some even want a percentage of the bill for the work. The chance of a marina tolerating a stream of visitors doing business on a boat moored there are I should think, nil. 

It would never be 'a stream'! I meet most folk in a local pub 3 or 4 times a week.

[Tracy D'arth]

1 minute ago, Patrick Wyatt said:

Ok, thank you. My business is located in Hatton Garden so I would need to speak to the Harbourmaster. I can always meet people at a nearby hostelry if necessary. Many of my clients are my friends too!

The harbourmaster cannot give you security of tenure.  You will be on very thin ice from day one.

[Alan de Enfield]

25 minutes ago, Patrick Wyatt said:

It would never be 'a stream'! I meet most folk in a local pub 3 or 4 times a week.

 

 

You may be sat there thinking "these guys are so negative", but we have seen it, been there, done that, have heard the sob stories and seen the evictions.

 

We are simply pointing out the areas where you need to be cautious - all the Sunday Times supplement, or Guardian 'house buyers' articles that make out who wonderful and easy boat ownership is have never actually been involved.

 

As has been said - there is absolutley no securuity of tenure on a mooring, you can be evicted with 2 minutes notice.

I was in one marina when a boater was refueling his boat from jerry cans (petrol) amongst others on the pontoons, and refused to move his boat to the re-fuelling dock, he refused to stop, the Police were called and he and his boat was gone in 30 minutes.

 

The marina owners make the rules, they can amend the rules at any time, it is private land, you do as you are told or you and your boat leave.

 

Take the advice as it is intended, it may not be what you want to hear, but facts are facts.

[Patrick Wyatt]

3 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

You may be sat there thinking "these guys are so negative", but we have seen it, been there, done that, have heard the sob stories and seen the evictions.

 

We are simply pointing out the areas where you need to be cautious - all the Sunday Times supplement, or Guardian 'house buyers' articles that make out who wonderful and easy boat ownership is have never actually been involved.

 

As has been said - there is absolutley no securuity of tenure on a mooring, you can be evicted with 2 minutes notice.

I was in one marina when a boater was refueling his boat from jerry cans (petrol) amongst others on the pontoons, and refused to move his boat to the re-fuelling dock, he refused to stop, the Police were called and he and his boat was gone in 30 minutes.

 

The marina owners make the rules, they can amend the rules at any time, it is private land, you do as you are told or you and your boat leave.

 

Take the advice as it is intended, it may not be what you want to hear, but facts are facts.

Thanks Alan, I don't feel overwhelmed by encouragement to be honest. All a bit leaning to 'don't do it you bloody fool'! though I understand beneath it all is good advice. I tend to get on very well with people and I hope that will help. With regard to the encouraging harbourmaster at Brentford, he sent me this as part of his very full reply to my brief email to him. He states they are residential moorings and as harbourmaster, I trust he knows his onions.
I understand there are many obstacles ahead and I intend to overcome them. It may not always be easy but in all things in life, one needs to be fluid and adaptable.
 

Dear Patrick,

 

Thank you for your email, I hope the following advice will be helpful:

 

By far the most expedient way to buy a boat to live on, will be to purchase one that is already on a mooring and the most common mooring arrangement, will be an annually renewable mooring agreement. If you wish to apply for a mooring with us for a boat you are considering purchasing, please complete the web application form at the following link: https://www.londonmooring.com/moorings-at-brentford-kew-reach/soaphouse-creek.php. Just put “TBA” in any part you cannot answer.

There are annually renewable mooring arrangements often available at Kew Reach, for Dutch Barges, Humber Keels, wide beam and narrow boats 15-40m in length, with a minimum mooring agreement of 12 months. These are residential moorings with no limit on overnight stays and with services chargeable by connection or metered supply as appropriate, and paid by service charge in addition to the mooring fees. Undercover car parking is also available at additional charge.

 

Mooring rates at Brentford vary according to vessel length and mooring position/view, and most let according to the available space, I can advise on costs and availability more accurately once I have more information on the vessel you intend to buy. There are three different mooring schemes at Brentford opposite the Royal Palace at Kew Gardens, and for perspective purposes I have provided you with outline details on all of them, however they each cater for a slightly different type or size of boat, so it may be that not all locations are suitable for your vessel, namely:

 

Soaphouse Creek Marina http://www.thamesmooring.com/moorings-at-brentford-kew-reach/soaphouse-creek.php In 2010 we completed the installation of a fully serviced pontoon mooring scheme in Soaphouse Creek; a retained water within the Ferry Quays Estate. This is most suitable for vessels of 15-25m and benefits from limited tidal movement due to the installation of lock gates.

 

River Brent Frontage http://www.thamesmooring.com/moorings-at-brentford-kew-reach/river-brent.php

In 2011 we completed installation of pontoons to create a secure, fully serviced mooring facility on the River Brent, the tidal element of the Grand Union Canal where it meets the river Thames. This is in effect, an extension of the Soaphouse Creek pontoon-mooring scheme as outlined above, suitable for vessels from 15-36m in fully tidal conditions.

 

Lots Ait http://www.thamesmooring.com/moorings-at-brentford-kew-reach/lots-ait.php.

In 2012 we installed a new bridge connection to the private island of Lots Ait, with refurbished facilities for a small boatyard operation and moorings for larger vessels up to 40m. The boatyard is a “quiet operation” that works as a specialist skills center, where we are pleased to have provided start up assistance to John Watson, a graduate of the Boat Building College at Lyme Regis. This quiet island setting is quite untroubled by road or river traffic, with access strictly restricted to only those authorised to be there. The rest of the island has been allowed to go back to nature and provides a rare haven for wildlife.

[Richard10002]

2 hours ago, MtB said:

 

Oh and BTW, cassettes and pump-outs are both equally capable of stinking!

 

Or not stinking. My Thetford Cassette loo doesnt stink, (doesnt smell either).

[ditchcrawler]

1 hour ago, Patrick Wyatt said:

Thanks Alan, I don't feel overwhelmed by encouragement to be honest. All a bit leaning to 'don't do it you bloody fool'! though I understand beneath it all is good advice. I tend to get on very well with people and I hope that will help. With regard to the encouraging harbourmaster at Brentford, he sent me this as part of his very full reply to my brief email to him. He states they are residential moorings and as harbourmaster, I trust he knows his onions.
I understand there are many obstacles ahead and I intend to overcome them. It may not always be easy but in all things in life, one needs to be fluid and adaptable.
 

 

This little bit may tell you something about what he didn't say

 

There are annually renewable mooring arrangements often available at Kew Reach, for Dutch Barges, Humber Keels, wide beam and narrow boats 15-40m in length, with a minimum mooring agreement of 12 months. These are residential moorings with no limit on overnight stays and with services chargeable by connection or metered supply as appropriate, and paid by service charge in addition to the mooring fees. Undercover car parking is also available at additional charge.

[Patrick Wyatt]

21 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

This little bit may tell you something about what he didn't say

 

There are annually renewable mooring arrangements often available at Kew Reach, for Dutch Barges, Humber Keels, wide beam and narrow boats 15-40m in length, with a minimum mooring agreement of 12 months. These are residential moorings with no limit on overnight stays and with services chargeable by connection or metered supply as appropriate, and paid by service charge in addition to the mooring fees. Undercover car parking is also available at additional charge.

Not entirely sure what you mean. All of the above was said and sent to me.

[ditchcrawler]

1 minute ago, Patrick Wyatt said:

Not entirely sure what you mean. All of the above was said and sent to me.

In this paragraph he states that Kew Reach has residential moorings with no time limit, he doesn't mention that for the others. That's all, if the others were residential and didn't have time limits why mention it here? I don't know the answer, it may be fine, but you need to go into it with your eyes open.

[MtB]

17 minutes ago, Patrick Wyatt said:

Not entirely sure what you mean. All of the above was said and sent to me.

 

My guess would be Ditchy was (clumsily) pointing out that moorings agreements are renewable, i.e. you need to renew them and there are no guarantees renewal will be granted if your face doesn't fit or you are generally making a PITA of yourself in unspecified ways even though you might have been keeping to the terms of the mooring agreement.

 

I could be wrong though. This often happens. 

 

A point that no-one has made yet though, is if one's face does fit, one goes out of one's way not to 'make waves' and to generally keep 'under the radar', many people have demonstrated one can live full time for many years on a leisure mooring. 

 

Flying below the radar means don't get mail delivered to the boat. Don't run your engine at unsociable hours of day or night, including times when you are technically allowed to but irritate others e.g. on a sunny Sunday afternoon. Don't cover to roof of your boat with crap, especially not WC cassettes. Keep your boat clean, tidy and respectable-looking externally. Don't play intrusively loud music. Avoid the smell of smoking weed drifting across the moorings. I'm sure you get the idea. 

Edited August 21, 2021 by MtB
Add the missing word. And another para.

[Patrick Wyatt]

2 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

My guess would be Ditchy was (clumsily) pointing out that moorings agreements are renewable, i.e. you need to renew them and there are no guarantees renewal will be granted if your face doesn't fit or you are generally making a PITA of yourself in unspecified ways even though you might have been keeping to the terms of the mooring agreement.

 

I could be wrong though. This often happens. 

 

A point that no-one has made yet though, is if one's face does fit, one goes out of one's way not to 'make waves' and to generally keep 'under the radar', many people have demonstrated one can full time for many years on a leisure mooring. 

Yay! Thanks MtB. I understand moorings are renewable and without tempting fate believe I would get on very well indeed with any and all there. At least that is my intention. I'm sure my all-night raves will be extremely popular!

8 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

My guess would be Ditchy was (clumsily) pointing out that moorings agreements are renewable, i.e. you need to renew them and there are no guarantees renewal will be granted if your face doesn't fit or you are generally making a PITA of yourself in unspecified ways even though you might have been keeping to the terms of the mooring agreement.

 

I could be wrong though. This often happens. 

 

A point that no-one has made yet though, is if one's face does fit, one goes out of one's way not to 'make waves' and to generally keep 'under the radar', many people have demonstrated one can live full time for many years on a leisure mooring. 

 

Flying below the radar means don't get mail delivered to the boat. Don't run your engine at unsociable hours of day or night, including times when you are technically allowed to but irritate others e.g. on a sunny Sunday afternoon. Don't cover to roof of your boat with crap, especially not WC cassettes. Keep your boat clean, tidy and respectable-looking externally. Don't play intrusively loud music. Avoid the smell of smoking weed drifting across the moorings. I'm sure you get the idea. 

I do! I do! I don't smoke weed and am very aware of the needs of others - thanks again.

Looks like the all-night raves are off for the time being.....

 

[David Mack]

I see from the application form that they want a picture of the boat. I think that reinforces the point that to be acceptable you need to have a clean and tidy boat.

Since the basin is surrounded by apartment blocks, I assume the moorings are managed as part of the residential development, and the managers won't want anything which could lead to complaints from the flat dwellers.

[MtB]

7 minutes ago, David Mack said:

I see from the application form that they want a picture of the boat. I think that reinforces the point that to be acceptable you need to have a clean and tidy boat.

Since the basin is surrounded by apartment blocks, I assume the moorings are managed as part of the residential development, and the managers won't want anything which could lead to complaints from the flat dwellers.

 

I often wonder about this. There could be. more 'innocent' reason, the marina just wants a record of what each boat on each mooring is supposed to look like. 

[Patrick Wyatt]

1 hour ago, MtB said:

 

I often wonder about this. There could be. more 'innocent' reason, the marina just wants a record of what each boat on each mooring is supposed to look like. 

Well, all being well, it would be a brand new Aqualine Canterbury so I presume it would pass muster.

 

[Patrick Wyatt]

Thank you all for pointing out the perils of the mooring situation - I feel suitably wary!!

Now, moving on from this chastening experience, any answers to the original questions would be appreciated....

Some of the extras on NewandUsed boat company seem very expensive, such as £1140 for an Indesit washer/dryer, 
Is the standard loo a cassette or pump-out? i think I'd prefer the pump-out and swallow the cost, rather than the smell of the cassette!
Are there any extras you think are well worth going for, such as extra waste toilet tank, skylight, paint and blacking upgrade?...and anything to avoid....
Also are there any items you'd recommend someone else fitting instead?
How many solar panels...and what of the solar dump system to heat your water from 'excess' sunlight once your batteries are charged?

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, Patrick Wyatt said:

Thank you all for pointing out the perils of the mooring situation - I feel suitably wary!!

Now, moving on from this chastening experience, any answers to the original questions would be appreciated....

Some of the extras on NewandUsed boat company seem very expensive, such as £1140 for an Indesit washer/dryer, 
Is the standard loo a cassette or pump-out? i think I'd prefer the pump-out and swallow the cost, rather than the smell of the cassette!
Are there any extras you think are well worth going for, such as extra waste toilet tank, skylight, paint and blacking upgrade?...and anything to avoid....
Also are there any items you'd recommend someone else fitting instead?
How many solar panels...and what of the solar dump system to heat your water from 'excess' sunlight once your batteries are charged?

 

The loo question has already been answered

 

Its a pump out, macerator type.

[Alan de Enfield]

11 minutes ago, Patrick Wyatt said:

How many solar panels...and what of the solar dump system to heat your water from 'excess' sunlight once your batteries are charged?

 

You say you are going to b pretty much 'always' in the marina.

You will spend £1000s of a solar system which would pay for a 'lifetime' of electricity from the marina bollards.

 

Solar only really comes into its own for people cruising and not having access to cheap mains electricity

 

A while ago someone did the maths (and showed their workings) and whilst marina electric was 20p per unit, to generate your own cost in excess of £5 per Unit

 

 

[Patrick Wyatt]

6 minutes ago, The Happy Nomad said:

 

The loo question has already been answered

 

Its a pump out, macerator type.

True, I just copied and pasted so as to move on in the conversation....

 

[Tracy D'arth]

You can do better than an Indesit washer for less. Just get the water, waste and electric connections fitted and buy your own washer.

Extra loo tank is a waste,just get a bigger tank with pump outs on both sides of the boat.

Skylight? You mean a glass roof hatch or a dog box? both are a source of condensation drips in bad weather.

 

Blacking.  Get it grit blasted and at least two pack epoxy.  Better still hot zinc sprayed and two pack but I know only of Debdale Wharf that do this and getting a fat boat there is not simple and not sure if they can accommodate a fatty.

[booke23]

2 hours ago, The Happy Nomad said:

Its a pump out, macerator type.

 

In a boat that size with the use the OP proposes I agree........With a Single tank as big as possible. If you were continuous cruising I'd probably lean towards cassette. Don't go by smell.....a pump out can smell quite bad from outside when it's getting full and smells like the most putrid bowels of hell when it's actually being pumped out. 

 

Don't consider a composting toilet. You might be tempted after researching them on Youtube and watching all the 'Vanlife' people and even some narrowboaters rave about them. Well I recently bought a boat with one installed (£1000 top of the line model) and while I suppose the concept is good, and in California where it is warm and dry maybe they work well. But in real life in the UK they only work well for light use (1-2 people). It's crucial the moisture content of the solids container stays low. With 4 people in typical UK climate the unit got overwhelmed after about 4 days use and had to be emptied due to strong smell (not sewerage smell but strong musty smell). Also with 4 people the liquid bottle needed emptied every single day which was a nuisance. You can't put the solid waste into C&RT bins either so you have to take it home.....another major faff. So I'm going to replace it with a cassette toilet....there are Elsan points all over the network and quite a lot of pump out sites so they (and pump outs) are much easier to live with overall. I did consider a pump out in my boat but it is a 40ft narrowboat so space is at a premium, as well as that cassette toilets are free to empty! There are some boaters that swear by composting toilets, however I think the tide is seriously turning on composting on the canals now that C&RT have banned the solid waste from their bins. 

 

 

Edited August 21, 2021 by booke23

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, booke23 said:

 

In a boat that size with the use the OP proposes I agree........With a Single tank as big as possible. If you were continuous cruising I'd probably lean towards cassette. Don't go by smell.....a pump out can smell quite bad from outside when it's getting full and smells like the most putrid bowels of hell when it's actually being pumped out. 

 

Don't consider a composting toilet. You might be tempted after researching them on Youtube and watching all the 'Vanlife' people and even some narrowboaters rave about them. Well I recently bought a boat with one installed (£1000 top of the line model) and while I suppose the concept is good, and maybe in California where it is warm and dry they work well. But in real life in the UK they only work well for light use (1-2 people). It's crucial the moisture content of the solids container stays low. With 4 people in typical UK climate the unit got overwhelmed after about 4 days use and had to be emptied due to strong smell (not sewerage smell but strong musty smell). Also with 4 people the liquid bottle needed emptied every single day which was a nuisance. You can't put the solid waste into C&RT bins either so you have to take it home.....another major faff. So I'm going to replace it with a cassette toilet....there are Elsan points all over the network and quite a lot of pump out sites so they (and pump outs) are much easier to live with overall. I did consider a pump out in my boat but it is a 40ft narrowboat so space is at a premium, as well as that cassette toilets are free to empty! There are some boaters that swear by composting toilets, however I think the tide is seriously turning on composting on the canals now that C&RT have banned the solid waste from their bins. 

 

 

 

I dont think Aqualine fit a cassette even as an option.

 

But I'm open to correction.

[MtB]

4 minutes ago, booke23 said:

Don't go by smell.....a pump out can smell quite bad from outside when it's getting full and smells like the most putrid bowels of hell when it's actually being pumped out. 

 

I disagree. The smell can be FAR worse than that.

 

I bought a boat 15 or 20 years ago with a pumpout bog and the first time I pumped it out, the experience was so horrendous (smell especially) I sealed it up and installed a cassette. 

 

 

[Tracy D'arth]

8 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

I disagree. The smell can be FAR worse than that.

 

I bought a boat 15 or 20 years ago with a pumpout bog and the first time I pumped it out, the experience was so horrendous (smell especially) I sealed it up and installed a cassette. 

 

 

If you use no bleach and no other chemicals they do not smell. Yes you can get a whiff from the vent pipe but a carbon filter sorts that if you care. None of mine have ever smelled bad, even when being pumped out and I do a self pump outs usually.