MtB Posted August 23, 2021 Report Share Posted August 23, 2021 25 minutes ago, phantom_iv said: For example: https://splash247.com/damning-report-emerges-of-the-pilots-onboard-the-ever-given/ Thanks. Yes the comments give a fascinating insight into the way Egypt runs the show. A ship with a cargo worth perhaps a £1bn being under control of corrupt and incompetent pilots who routinely expect to be bribed with a few hundred quids-worth of cigarettes! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phantom_iv Posted August 23, 2021 Report Share Posted August 23, 2021 12 minutes ago, MtB said: Yes the comments give a fascinating insight into the way Egypt runs the show. A ship with a cargo worth perhaps a £1bn being under control of corrupt and incompetent pilots who routinely expect to be bribed with a few hundred quids-worth of cigarettes! The shipping companies deserve their share of the blame for employing poorly-trained officers from 'cheaper' countries to save a bit of cash, when one mistake can wipe out decades of savings at a stroke... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtB Posted August 23, 2021 Report Share Posted August 23, 2021 1 minute ago, phantom_iv said: The shipping companies deserve their share of the blame for employing poorly-trained officers from 'cheaper' countries to save a bit of cash, when one mistake can wipe out decades of savings at a stroke... It does seem odd and short-sighted. I'd have thought that generous wage bills for 10 or 20 competent crew would still be 'background noise' in relation to the costs of building and running a ship of that scale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain_S Posted August 23, 2021 Report Share Posted August 23, 2021 33 minutes ago, MtB said: Thanks. Yes the comments give a fascinating insight into the way Egypt runs the show. A ship with a cargo worth perhaps a £1bn being under control of corrupt and incompetent pilots who routinely expect to be bribed with a few hundred quids-worth of cigarettes! The ship should never be "under the control" of the pilot. It's "Master's Orders and Pilot's Advice". Vessel on Master’s orders and Pilot’s advice – Solent Marine Consultants (solentconsult.com) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtB Posted August 23, 2021 Report Share Posted August 23, 2021 14 minutes ago, Iain_S said: The ship should never be "under the control" of the pilot. It's "Master's Orders and Pilot's Advice". Vessel on Master’s orders and Pilot’s advice – Solent Marine Consultants (solentconsult.com) That's interesting. There was something in the previous link that gave me the impression the pilot once engaged, had authority over the Master. Don't have time now to go back and find it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchcrawler Posted August 23, 2021 Report Share Posted August 23, 2021 5 hours ago, phantom_iv said: For example: https://splash247.com/damning-report-emerges-of-the-pilots-onboard-the-ever-given/ It's quite normal for the idiots that pass for Suez pilots to order "full ahead" without any understanding of the performance of the vessel involved - in some cases on vessels capable of speeds nearing 30 knots. In most cases the master of the ship will just refuse to comply with the pilot, and proceed at a more sensible speed instead. It's not unheard of for pilots to sulk and refuse to do their jobs if the ship's captain refuses to bribe them with cartons of cigarettes. In the case of the Ever Given, the (likely inexperienced) Indian captain has failed to overrule the pilot, leading to excessive speed and exactly the same result as your NB - which, I expect is probably better controlled. Edit: the comments on the article paint a picture by themselves! Some interesting reading in both reports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BilgePump Posted August 23, 2021 Report Share Posted August 23, 2021 9 hours ago, MtB said: Thanks. Yes the comments give a fascinating insight into the way Egypt runs the show. A ship with a cargo worth perhaps a £1bn being under control of corrupt and incompetent pilots who routinely expect to be bribed with a few hundred quids-worth of cigarettes! Possibly just a reflection of the world today, so going to have a go at paraphrasing 🙂 'a fascinating insight into the way Egypt (our governments etc) runs the show. A ship with a cargo (Nations with a load of medical/security/ etc contracts) worth perhaps a £1bn (shed loads of billions) being under control of corrupt and incompetent pilots (politicians) who routinely expect to be bribed with a few hundred quids-worth of cigarettes (m/billion quids, a seat in the Lords and free entry to Ascot)!' These ships just seem way, way, too large. An eight foot boat pole short of a quarter of a mile long (399.94m v 402.34m), over a quarter of a million tonnes, 20,000 containers capacity (ish). When one of these monsters eventually fails in open water, like many new and old ships always have done, it won't be a simple cleanup operation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchcrawler Posted August 23, 2021 Report Share Posted August 23, 2021 8 minutes ago, BilgePump said: When one of these monsters eventually fails in open water, like many new and old ships always have done, it won't be a simple cleanup operation. We use to have containers floating around the North Sea when I was at work over 20 years ago 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BilgePump Posted August 23, 2021 Report Share Posted August 23, 2021 Just now, ditchcrawler said: We use to have containers floating around the North Sea when I was at work over 20 years ago Sure, plenty still do in all major trade routes, but no single boat was ever capable of spewing 20,000 at one time, until recently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howardang Posted August 23, 2021 Author Report Share Posted August 23, 2021 35 minutes ago, BilgePump said: ………………………… These ships just seem way, way, too large. An eight foot boat pole short of a quarter of a mile long (399.94m v 402.34m), over a quarter of a million tonnes, 20,000 containers capacity (ish). When one of these monsters eventually fails in open water, like many new and old ships always have done, it won't be a simple cleanup operation. I agree that these ships may well be getting way too large, but it is also worth giving some thought to the present generation of cruise ships and the consequences if one of them has a major problem - a collision or serious grounding in heavy weather, never mind the unthinkable consequences of a major fire in a remote location. Emergency evacuation of many thousand passengers and crew will be extremely difficult to carry out safely and in a timely manner. It doesn’t bear thinking about. Howard 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BilgePump Posted August 24, 2021 Report Share Posted August 24, 2021 7 hours ago, howardang said: I agree that these ships may well be getting way too large, but it is also worth giving some thought to the present generation of cruise ships and the consequences if one of them has a major problem - a collision or serious grounding in heavy weather, never mind the unthinkable consequences of a major fire in a remote location. Emergency evacuation of many thousand passengers and crew will be extremely difficult to carry out safely and in a timely manner. It doesn’t bear thinking about. Howard Just looked up the figures for Symphony of the Seas and its length (361m) and gross tonnage (228,000) aren't dissimilar to those for Ever Given. (approx 400m long and GT of 221,000 tonnes). She carries more than two thousand crew, around six thousand passengers, across eighteen decks, and is over two hundred feet high. Ships like these are small floating towns. Moored alongside in port, they tower over the quayside buildings. When the smaller Costa Concordia partially sank in shallow water, still 32 people sadly lost their lives. The prospect of a modern cruise liner having a major incident at sea, out of reach of rapid assistance, is certainly terrifying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtB Posted August 24, 2021 Report Share Posted August 24, 2021 37 minutes ago, BilgePump said: She carries more than two thousand crew, around six thousand passengers, across eighteen decks, and is over two hundred feet high. I find this utterly astounding. eight thousand people on board! In comparison, a brief google suggests the EVER GIVEN is operated by a crew of twelve. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howardang Posted October 5, 2021 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2021 The latest in the Ever Given saga; she arrived at Qingdao a few weeks ago and since then remained at anchor off the port awaiting a berth. She has now last berthed alongside the shipyard and will undoubtedly be drydocked in the next few days to undergo any repairs that are needed. I have seen an report that the bulbous bow is damaged and she may well have other hull damage, and there is some speculation that there may also be work needed on the main engine. The hull damage and possible engine work may well explain why she had been steaming at a reduced speed since the original incident - possibly a condition imposed by her classification society. The total work may take around 1 month or so before she resumes trading normally. Howard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtB Posted October 5, 2021 Report Share Posted October 5, 2021 2 minutes ago, howardang said: The latest in the Ever Given saga; she arrived at Qingdao a few weeks ago and since then remained at anchor off the port awaiting a berth. She has now last berthed alongside the shipyard and will undoubtedly be drydocked in the next few days to undergo any repairs that are needed. I have seen an report that the bulbous bow is damaged and she may well have other hull damage, and there is some speculation that there may also be work needed on the main engine. The hull damage and possible engine work may well explain why she had been steaming at a reduced speed since the original incident - possibly a condition imposed by her classification society. The total work may take around 1 month or so before she resumes trading normally. Howard I have enormous sympathy for all the firms whose goods in transit have been trapped on this ship since the grounding. Goods worth a total sum of £1bn by some estimates. This must have driven a few (or a lot of) companies under, i would imagine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athy Posted October 5, 2021 Report Share Posted October 5, 2021 On 21/08/2021 at 17:51, BilgePump said: Who had ever heard the word 'furlough' before March 2020? Many people, I should think; is it not the American equivalent of our term "leave", meaning paid holiday for military personnel? I certainly heard it decades ago, but its recent usage is of course rather different from the original meaning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellowback Posted October 5, 2021 Report Share Posted October 5, 2021 2 hours ago, Athy said: Many people, I should think; is it not the American equivalent of our term "leave", meaning paid holiday for military personnel? I certainly heard it decades ago, but its recent usage is of course rather different from the original meaning. Thought that prior to that, in the time of knights, when an enemy knight was vanquished, the winner would give the loser furlough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athy Posted October 5, 2021 Report Share Posted October 5, 2021 (edited) 38 minutes ago, Yellowback said: Thought that prior to that, in the time of knights, when an enemy knight was vanquished, the winner would give the loser furlough. You may well be right, though I wasn't around then. I think that the American meaning is more widely known. Oddly, the Mirriam-Webster dic (which I think is American) lists a supplementary meaning of a period of absence from work during which an employee is NOT paid. Curiouser and curiouser.... Edited October 5, 2021 by Athy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pluto Posted October 5, 2021 Report Share Posted October 5, 2021 My 1913 copy of Roget's Thesaurus puts furlough together with permit, warrant, authority and pass, while my 1943 Funk & Wagnell's Dictionary gives : Leave of absence granted to a soldier or sailor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerra Posted October 5, 2021 Report Share Posted October 5, 2021 6 hours ago, Athy said: Many people, I should think; is it not the American equivalent of our term "leave", meaning paid holiday for military personnel? I certainly heard it decades ago, but its recent usage is of course rather different from the original meaning. A certain gentleman famous for his monologues mentions " an angel on furlough from heaven" and I remember as a child various mentions of people of furlough from the military. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray T Posted October 5, 2021 Report Share Posted October 5, 2021 12 minutes ago, Jerra said: A certain gentleman famous for his monologues mentions " an angel on furlough from heaven" and I remember as a child various mentions of people of furlough from the military. Involves Yorkshire Puddings too: Yorkshire Pudden by Weston and Lee - Famous poems, famous poets. - All Poetry 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchcrawler Posted October 5, 2021 Report Share Posted October 5, 2021 3 hours ago, Pluto said: My 1913 copy of Roget's Thesaurus puts furlough together with permit, warrant, authority and pass, while my 1943 Funk & Wagnell's Dictionary gives : Leave of absence granted to a soldier or sailor. I thought there were 8 of them to the mile 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonathanA Posted October 5, 2021 Report Share Posted October 5, 2021 5 hours ago, Athy said: Oddly, the Mirriam-Webster dic (which I think is American) lists a supplementary meaning of a period of absence from work during which an employee is NOT paid. Curiouser and curiouser.... Edited 5 hours Yes that's the context that I'd heard of for furlough long before covid. My employer insists that contractors are furloughed over Christmas. As they don't want to pay contractors to sit on their backsides whilst we all make merry... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanM Posted October 6, 2021 Report Share Posted October 6, 2021 22 hours ago, howardang said: The latest in the Ever Given saga; she arrived at Qingdao a few weeks ago and since then remained at anchor off the port awaiting a berth. She has now last berthed alongside the shipyard and will undoubtedly be drydocked in the next few days to undergo any repairs that are needed. I have seen an report that the bulbous bow is damaged and she may well have other hull damage, and there is some speculation that there may also be work needed on the main engine. The hull damage and possible engine work may well explain why she had been steaming at a reduced speed since the original incident - possibly a condition imposed by her classification society. The total work may take around 1 month or so before she resumes trading normally. Howard Article here, including pictures of the damage http://www.news.cn/english/2021-10/04/c_1310226464.htm 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athy Posted October 6, 2021 Report Share Posted October 6, 2021 13 hours ago, ditchcrawler said: I thought there were 8 of them to the mile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dav and Pen Posted October 6, 2021 Report Share Posted October 6, 2021 A close up of the damage. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Featured Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now