Is this classic head gasket gone.

[Karen Lea Rainey]

5 hours ago, dmr said:

That head/valve springs is very clean and tidy. Did it come off like that or has it been cleaned up (extensively) before you took that photo????

The head has not been touched since removal/splitting from the block, I now suspect that the engine has not been started for quite a few years.

Streethay tell me it was towed in in February this year.

It was moored in 2020 at Mercia marina about 10 miles and about 7 or 8 locks away.

 

I now think that this boat hadn't left the marina berth for a couple of years prior to being towed.

[Tracy D'arth]

Before you say goodbye to the knackered engine make sure you know what bits you need off it for the new one.  Things like senders for temperature and oil pressure, thermostat and maybe the housing, starter, alternator and its brackets, drive plate, engine mountings, sump drain pump, earth cable, any fresh water pump and brackets, exhaust flange, nuts and bolts, etc etc etc.  Its too late once you have sent it off.

It would be much better to pay a deposit and get the new one first, its really annoying to find that you have chucked away a difficult to obtain part and stopped the job.

[StephenA]

22 hours ago, Karen Lea Rainey said:

Speaking to Steve at Altham marine, he suggests that this can happen if the cauliflower is above the height of the engine, general build up of rust, sludge in the pipes, skin tank,(a general neglect of maintenance, antifreeze,flushing out skin tank etc, or a cracked head will do it)

Judging by the state of the internal pipework, I would be inclined to agree with him.

I changed the prv on the cauliflower last week it was totally sludged up, if that's  anything to go by,then I'm not surprised the engine waterworks are similar.

 

 

Not sure why having the calorifier above the height of the engine would cause water to get into the oil - I can see it causing all sort of air lock issues but......

[Tracy D'arth]

I suspect that water came in via the exhaust.

[Tony Brooks]

Just now, StephenA said:

 

Not sure why having the calorifier above the height of the engine would cause water to get into the oil - I can see it causing all sort of air lock issues but......

 

If a head, block, or exhaust manifold cracked then I suppose there would be a head to allow water to flow into the engine but I suspect for most cracks the water pressure would prevent any air entering the system, so water could  not leak out to any great degree. It also sounded suspect to me. Afterall many hire boats have the engine header tank well above the top of the engine.

Just now, Tracy D'arth said:

I suspect that water came in via the exhaust.

 

Me too,  especially if it was a wet exhaust boat.

[cuthound]

20 hours ago, Tracy D'arth said:

I suspect that water came in via the exhaust.

 

I agree, did the engine hole show signs of deep water damage? What was the interior of the boat like?

[Bee]

A wet exhaust should have an anti syphon loop so the exhaust outlet should not be a way in for water but a cracked manifold, head, or some other plumbing could well be the cause. Check everything that you re use just in case.

[Tony Brooks]

6 minutes ago, Bee said:

A wet exhaust should have an anti syphon loop so the exhaust outlet should not be a way in for water but a cracked manifold, head, or some other plumbing could well be the cause. Check everything that you re use just in case.

 

The word there is "should", especially in the narrowboat world. In yachts, I have heard from a reliable source that those with an engine low down in the boat can fill the engine with water if you keep cranking when the engine won't start because they need the gas flow from combustion to blow the cooling water up hill to the outlet. I can't see that being the case on a narrowboat though.

Edited September 9, 2021 by Tony Brooks

[Karen Lea Rainey]

I have just had a phone call from Altham marine in Accrington, bearing in mind he gave me a very reasonable trade in value for my Beta 28 against a superb Beta 30 which will be fitted tomorrow.

He has given me his wisdom findings after seeing all the associated parts, 

Block - not cracked

Head - not damaged

Crank - rusty but needs attention

Rods - no sign of damage 

Pistons  -  rusted in but not serviceable

Heat exchanger - still serviceable.

 

His advice is , your exhaust is almost certainly pointing directly downhill, the rainwater & any washing and any other water has been running down the inside of the exhaust silencer and bellows/ flexi pipe and has entered whichever port is open via the manifold.

This has seized the engine by probably hydro locking it initially and been left to continue until it's completely  ruined.

 

I had checked the exhaust earlier in the week, it needs complete replacement, silencer was rotten as can be, obvious standing water was left in the end connecting to the bellows with rusty sludge apparent at the joint. 

The silencer does indeed fall towards the engine in the first  instance which continues downwards until it reaches the manifold  exhaust exit flange and it is very likely that it was the original cause of the engine failure.

The exit of the silencer through the hull is flush with side and no eyebrow over the fittings.

His advice immediately  is make sure the exhaust silencer / pipe goes slightly down hill before it exits the boat or you could possibly have the same problem again ( with no warranty) if that happens.

[BEngo]

If it has been hydraulic locked it is a little surprising to find that the rods are OK.  Maybe the valve seats had  rusted and stopped a fatal- to- the- rods pressure build up when the piston hit the water.

 

I would say that rather than a  slightly downhill exhaust you want a fairly steep downhill, even if you have to go up first to get enough headroom for down.

 

N

 

 

[Tracy D'arth]

1 minute ago, BEngo said:

If it has been hydraulic locked it is a little surprising to find that the rods are OK.  Maybe the valve seats had  rusted and stopped a fatal- to- the- rods pressure build up when the piston hit the water.

 

I would say that rather than a  slightly downhill exhaust you want a fairly steep downhill, even if you have to go up first to get enough headroom for down.

 

N

 

 

Like a swan's neck, which is why its called a swan's     er     neck! 

An upside down "U" bend.

[Tony Brooks]

I suspect he means downwards from the outlet. I agree with BEngo, being a dry exhaust boat, working form the hull outlet it should run upwards and then down to the engine to prevent external water getting into the engine.