Tunnel Vision

[Derek Porteous]

We were held up last year at the Barnton Tunnel last year when two boats going in the opposite direction got stuck in the tunnel. As a result we are ultra cautious and now hover at the entrance whilst someone goes to the bow to check there is no head light or engine noise (although there is a kink in the tunnel, you can see the outline of the opposite entrance). All clear, so off we went.

About a third of the way through, a tunnel light appeared at the entrance. We gave a long blast of horn and got two short blasts in return ( not sure what that means). On we went at a reduced speed whilst the other tunnel light remained firmly in the entrance portal. We were not sure whether the other boat was hovering, coming forward slowly or reversing. A few minutes later the other boat sounded its horn twice again. We replied with a single long blast. It eventually became clear that the other boat had entered the tunnel and was slowly reversing back out again. No big deal and no harm done, although the helmsman did seem a bit grumpy as we passed.

Next up was the Saltersford Tunnel which is on a timed basis. With the shenanigans at Barton Tunnel we just missed our slot by two minutes, so moored up to await the top of the hour, 38 minutes later. No issues here. Straight through in less than ten minutes. However as we exited the northern portal, a boat heading south arrived and when straight into the tunnel, admittedly with two short blasts of the horn, some 20 minutes before the allotted time of half past the hour. No idea if this caused a problem or not. We just drifted north thinking upon what might occur at the Preston Brook Tunnel.

[Midnight]

I don't understand why both tunnels aren't on time slots.

[Tam & Di]

What is the significance of two short blasts - is this a published signal for tunnel use? In normal use at sea or inland it signifies that the craft is bearing to or turning to port (his left, for the non-nautical). The usual signal for craft that are in reverse gear is three short blasts. I realise that very few inland boaters know what correct signals mean, but it is even more confusing and potentially dangerous when they invent their own, and here there are two craft sounding 2 short blasts.

 

Tam

Edited August 14, 2021 by Tam & Di

[Mad Harold]

23 minutes ago, Midnight said:

I don't understand why both tunnels aren't on time slots.

Not everyone plans their trip properly and maybe don't know about tunnel timings.

Met one hire boat on the C+H who didn't know that boats are supposed to pass port to port.

[TheBiscuits]

35 minutes ago, Tam & Di said:

What is the significance of two short blasts - is this a published signal for tunnel use? In normal use at sea or inland it signifies that the craft is bearing to or turning to port (his left, for the non-nautical). The usual signal for craft that are in reverse gear is three short blasts. I realise that very few inland boaters know what correct signals mean, but it is even more confusing and potentially dangerous when they invent their own, and here there are two craft sounding 2 short blasts.

 

Tam

 

It's idiots, not a different signal.

 

I'm sat in Liverpool at the moment and the sound signals the trip boats skippers are giving are ridiculous.

 

Instead of one prolonged blast at dock entrances (I am here) one skipper is giving three short blasts (I am in astern or stopping) one is giving two short blasts (I am turning to port) and another is giving one short blast (I am turning to starboard)

 

On one of the boats his horn is barely audible over the loud music playing on the boat.

 

I expect a bit of this from private boaters, but for commercial skippers on passenger craft it's worrying!

[Midnight]

37 minutes ago, Mad Harold said:

Not everyone plans their trip properly and maybe don't know about tunnel timings.

Met one hire boat on the C+H who didn't know that boats are supposed to pass port to port.

The signs at Saltersford and Preston Brook are quite clear to the majority. Time slots would help at Barnton because of the kink. They would also be handy in a right of passage argument. There are always idiots and the self-entitled but in most cases people do adhere to time slots.

[Arthur Marshall]

The sign at the south end if Saltersford showing the times is quite a long way from the tunnel entrance (or it was last time I was there) and so is easy to miss if you're not looking out for it. At the north end, it's right by the entrance - why it isn't at the other end I never could understand. I did grumble to CRT about it after I forced a boat to back quite a long way out of it, although by his reaction I'm pretty sure he'd seen it and was just taking a chance.

As it's a ten minute entry slot, if you can see the tunnel is empty at ten past, no-one should go in the other end so you might just as well go through early, surely.

[ditchcrawler]

56 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

It's idiots, not a different signal.

 

I'm sat in Liverpool at the moment and the sound signals the trip boats skippers are giving are ridiculous.

 

Instead of one prolonged blast at dock entrances (I am here) one skipper is giving three short blasts (I am in astern or stopping) one is giving two short blasts (I am turning to port) and another is giving one short blast (I am turning to starboard)

 

On one of the boats his horn is barely audible over the loud music playing on the boat.

 

I expect a bit of this from private boaters, but for commercial skippers on passenger craft it's worrying!

Better than the one I met in Birmingham who stuck her right arm out and then pointed ahead. When we stopped nose to nose she explained she wanted me to go to herright as she planned to carry on straight ahead to go through the bridge I was in. A Professional Skipper?

[alias]

4 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Better than the one I met in Birmingham who stuck her right arm out and then pointed ahead. When we stopped nose to nose she explained she wanted me to go to herright as she planned to carry on straight ahead to go through the bridge I was in. A Professional Skipper?

 

I've met a number of people whose hand signals were intended to instruct others what to do, rather than as one might think advise of their own intentions. It doesn't tend to end well. 

[David Schweizer]

1 hour ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

It's idiots, not a different signal.

 

I'm sat in Liverpool at the moment and the sound signals the trip boats skippers are giving are ridiculous.

 

Instead of one prolonged blast at dock entrances (I am here) one skipper is giving three short blasts (I am in astern or stopping) one is giving two short blasts (I am turning to port) and another is giving one short blast (I am turning to starboard)

 

On one of the boats his horn is barely audible over the loud music playing on the boat.

 

I expect a bit of this from private boaters, but for commercial skippers on passenger craft it's worrying!

 

A bit worrying is that they appear to have forgotten (or are ignoring) the Maritime signals they will have needed to learn and demonstrate in order to get their Boatmaster's Licence.

 

 

[AndrewIC]

54 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

 

As it's a ten minute entry slot, if you can see the tunnel is empty at ten past, no-one should go in the other end so you might just as well go through early, surely.

20 minute entry window at Saltersford, 10 minutes at Preston Brook.

 

As far as I recall the timing of Saltersford only started when the IWA National was held at Preston Brook, during which both Barnton and Saltersford were timed and operated as a single unit, and afterwards Saltersford was left on timed entry.

 

it seemed to work satisfactorily for a couple of centuries before that, although reinstating the steam tug would have been nice…

[TheBiscuits]

48 minutes ago, David Schweizer said:

 

A bit worrying is that they appear to have forgotten (or are ignoring) the Maritime signals they will have needed to learn and demonstrate in order to get their Boatmaster's Licence.

 

 

 

Quite.  They're all carrying more than 12 passengers, so you would hope they at least have a boatmaster on board even if the steerer is a numpty.  There's not really much excuse for using valid but incorrect signals when you must have been taught the correct usage to get your licence!

 

 

[frangar]

A few days ago we ended up waiting for 2 slots for Preston brook….could see a headlight and hear engines inside with the occasional hoot and shouting…my first thought was what are the idiots doing in there?? This however subsided somewhat when a rather stressed Thorn marine hire boat crew emerged brandishing poles and pushing on the tunnel roof…..turns out they had knocked their stern rope in…it wound round the prop and stopped the engine dead…all a little way into the tunnel…why the boats behind..all private…didn’t offer to tow them out by reversing as apparently they weren’t far in I’m not sure..or pass them in the “cathedral” and take them on tow….

 

Then we arrived early for our slot at Saltersford…one boat came out well within it’s time…we were just about to cast off when we heard an engine…by now was 2 mins into our window…then well into our slot a shiny Hudson emerged who’s skipper seemed perplexed as to my attitude…he seemed oblivious to the time system…might have been interesting if I had arrived in my window and just gone in as some do.

 

I have informed CRT of the poor sighting of the time board when travelling north…it’s the second time I’ve had boats travelling north just come in the tunnel…the previous time I was the second boat in the convoy which was half way through when the lead boat had to have an earnest chat with a boat trying to come the other way….what more worrying is they are happy to let unpowered craft use Saltersford & barnton. 

[Tacet]

17 hours ago, alias said:

 

I've met a number of people whose hand signals were intended to instruct others what to do, rather than as one might think advise of their own intentions. It doesn't tend to end well. 

All too frequently.   BMWs excepted, the indicators on cars are generally accepted as relating to that vehicle rather than instruction to other traffic.  I suppose the rule no longer applies to modern hand and finger signals which are now rarely to be found in the Highway Code.

 

Boating, I have taken to pointing to myself first, and then to the direction I will be moving.  It has helped.

 

 

[Machpoint005]

Is there some kind of correlation between BMW owners and boaters displaying questionable behaviours?

 

 

 

 

[TheBiscuits]

38 minutes ago, Machpoint005 said:

Is there some kind of correlation between BMW owners and boaters displaying questionable behaviours?

 

I've got an Audi so I am used to using the horn a lot

 

[Machpoint005]

Overpriced VW!

 

 

[Iain_S]

21 hours ago, Arthur Marshall said:

The sign at the south end if Saltersford showing the times is quite a long way from the tunnel entrance (or it was last time I was there) and so is easy to miss if you're not looking out for it. At the north end, it's right by the entrance - why it isn't at the other end I never could understand. I did grumble to CRT about it after I forced a boat to back quite a long way out of it, although by his reaction I'm pretty sure he'd seen it and was just taking a chance.

As it's a ten minute entry slot, if you can see the tunnel is empty at ten past, no-one should go in the other end so you might just as well go through early, surely.

 

 ... or a few minutes late 

[Derek Porteous]

Well Preston Brook Tunnel was eventful as well. There were four boats going through north. The lead boat (Canaltime) went so slowly that chaos ensued behind with everyone loosing steerage. Stop and start all the way through. Total passage time was 35 minutes, 5 minutes into the 10 minute slot for the south bound boat. We were third boat. The second boat (small hire boat), had steam coming everywhere with an overcooked engine. Just waiting with them for the engine to cool down and, if necessary, offer a tow. Tunnels! 

[Ex Brummie]

There are often many local 'regulations' that you may be informed about by local boaters. I recall being told once that it was accepted on the Llangollen that towpath boats should give way to offside boats at bridges, irrespective of the distances of each to the bridge.

[haggis]

10 minutes ago, Ex Brummie said:

There are often many local 'regulations' that you may be informed about by local boaters. I recall being told once that it was accepted on the Llangollen that towpath boats should give way to offside boats at bridges, irrespective of the distances of each to the bridge.

Could that be something to do with the flow on the Llangollen and "river rules" coming into play?

[Ex Brummie]

Except the towpath changes, the flow ( little as it is ) doesn't.

[Dav and Pen]

I was taught that 3 blast means I am not under control usually because I’ve engaged reverse but not necessarily reversing. Bit like Eric playing all the notes etc.

[Arthur Marshall]

1 hour ago, Ex Brummie said:

There are often many local 'regulations' that you may be informed about by local boaters. I recall being told once that it was accepted on the Llangollen that towpath boats should give way to offside boats at bridges, irrespective of the distances of each to the bridge.

I always assumed the one going upstream should stop as it was easier than for the downstream boat. Also, going up you almost come to a halt in the bridgehole anyway while the downstreamer whizzes through.

[matty40s]

8 hours ago, Machpoint005 said:

Overpriced VW!

 

 

Overpriced Skoda