BMC 1.5 Oil with a lot of fuel in it.

[StephenA]

35 minutes ago, TNLI said:

 

Just ask your HP fuel pump seals supply company, or one of the experts that reconditions BMC HP pumps at Calcutta boats, I'm sure they will jump up and down and say, "Don't worry be happy with your red diesel supplier, and please don't even think about using a lubricity additive or adding Bio diesel, that would be a really bad idea", 

 

Why would I do that - we've had no problems on our BMC relating to seals on the HP pump.

 

I'm quite sure if I went to Turners, or Norbury, or any of the fuel boats we use and accused them of selling us the "wrong" fuel they'd basically tell us where to go.

 

You seem to be obsessing over an issue that has affected a small number of BMC owners and turning it into a major issue.

 

Actually I've worked out what you're doing with this and all your other BMC threads - you're hoping we're all going to say "Our BMCs are utter rubbish, I'll take it out, put a new engine in and give the old one to you"

 

I will no longer give any of your posts the time of day - you're a wind up merchant.

[TNLI]

1 hour ago, StephenA said:

 

But in reality this is completely impractical - I turn up at a boat yard (be it Norbury, Turner Brothers, Nantwich etc.) and want to buy fuel. I can't get fuel tests done and I can't imagine any of them taking kindly to me basically accusing them of selling crap fuel. I don't know who provides their fuel (Turners will be same as their road fuel) and even if I did I wouldn't have a clue if that provider is a poor supplier.

 

 

Define premature. We've had our BMC since 1986 ( bought from Mick Seivewright at Barbridge ), two rebuilds (Calcutt and Upton) and we've never had a problem and don't have a problem. Last rebuild would have been round about 2005

2 rebuilds is 2 too many, although to get a marine diesel to last as long as many marine diesels in good offshore fishing boats or good quality generator sets last if they are maintained correctly, does require that you understand why your engine needed to be rebuilt.

 

Typical list of reasons for a BMC 1500:

1/ Poor quality engine oils, filters, (Oil and fuel in particular). Old donkeys like oils that have a high DZZP and detergent content, but what they get fed in many cases is junk oil with very low, or even no additives.

2/ Too long an oil change interval, (The OCI in many cases needs to be based on the 2% max fuel contamination figure). In reality you do need to do an occasional used oil analysis, (Blackstones Labs in the US are cheap and will e mail the report and what they think of the oil and engine, plus average figures for the same engine and the test kit is free). to figure out if you need to adjust your oil or filter change intervals, AND it might even result in you using a heavier oil than normal towards the end of the blocks life.

3/ Overheating incidents that cause extra wear to occur, that can damage the head gasket or even warp the crank shaft or head itself if really bad. 

4/ Cold start abuse, (A heat pad can make a real big difference up North).

5/ Failure to comprehend just how important the lubricity of a fuel is if you have an engine that has seals that need what is in effect a lubricant. That issue can be made far worse if the secondary fuel filter is of the wrong type in both quality or micron rating terms. It needs to be a fuel filter made by a good German company with a fine rating, although I have not looked up the exact figures. You will often find the secondary filter is a far Eastern copy and is a coarse filter that might be OK for a primary, but will be real bad news if used as a secondary.

6/ Operators that slam the throttle open or shut too quickly.

7/ Fitting a big diesel in a small canal boat, so that the owner can discover just what a bad idea using low power settings is for a non common rail ECU controlled diesel is.

8/ Failing to clean the injector tips by using an idle only flush, (More important if you use low power settings), every year or so. (On a car diesel I run LM Purge through the injection system for 10 mins at idle every 50K for a town car, or 100K km for an autobahn flyer).

9/ Not decoking the cylinders of a low power afflicted canal boat. You can do this by taking the head off, or just anchoring or tying up to a well built pier and running a few hundred RPM below max continuous RPM for 10 hours just before the start of the summer season.

10/ Failing to correctly inhibit the donkey during winter, or not running it every month minimum. If you leave old oil in an engine for 6 months or so, the acids in a cheap old oil will do a real nasty job on the main block. In fact they can cause more corrosion related extra wear than a real busy summer season causes. Same game for Red diesel that has a high water content that is left in the HP pump all winter. 

 

That list is not in order of importance, and I did not mention the air filter, because I tend to rely on the Silicon figure (Ultra fine sand), to let me know if the air filter needs changing. I also missed failing to adjust the injection timing or tappets correctly, although those are service related.

[TNLI]

2 hours ago, StephenA said:

Quote from Stephen:

I will no longer give any of your posts the time of day - you're a wind up merchant.

 

Good idea, and it's 2320 hrs here in Blighty.

2 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

As it seems all brands draw fuel from the same bulk storage tanks, perhaps with the brand's own additive pack being mixed as part of the filing process there can not be much wrong with the base fuel in the UK. To the best of my knowledge all diesel contains lubricity improvers to meet the relevant EN/BS standard in the UK, be it FAME or other things. One thing is for sure the industrial and agricultural common rail diesels that run on red would be in serious trouble if the fuel was materially sub standard lubricity wise.

 

Calcutt do not overhaul their own pumps, they send them to a specialist.

 

UK boats simply do not suffer unreliability of the injection system. They last for tens of years, even the DPA pumps. Of course when compared with newer pumps a 60 year old pump is more likely to leak and  there are a lot of them in our boats. Nothing last forever and it is silly to expect it t,  especially when it was the first of a generation that seems to be designed to be robot built and down to a price.

 

 

 

It does not matter what the fuel standards are, the HP pump seals are just like quite a number of injection pumps on both older and a few modern turbo diesels that have suffered exactly the same issue using cheap normal diesel. The Germans did change the standards for low Sulphur fuels and that resulted in a need for the fuel companies to use lubricity additives to be in compliance. Their red diesel is probably as bad as ours if you have sensitive oil seals. The owners also figured out they needed to be careful about which fuel company they were buying from, and Liqui Moly developed an additive to help those users that do not have a major brand fuel company available. 

 

You really need to read up about fuel companies as they really do not use common storage or source supply tanks. BP and Mobil even use oil from different countries and different refineries, as does Shell. Oddly enough what matters most is that the local storage tank is in good condition and not half full of Diesel bug, water or Iron particles. The fuel stations fuel filter units should also be of a high standard, although many Red diesel stations don't really filter their fuel, apart from a rather coarse circular screen filter and even that part was missing from a local marine fuel station pump I used last week.

 

The fact that an HP pump lasts 60 years is impressive, although that does not seem true for some owners, and the real question is how long did it last before the degraded seals started leaking fuel into the oil. Oddly enough most marine engineers who are using UOA results or Oil lab comments, change their HP pump when the analyst points out that it might starting to cause an increasing problem as regards fuel contaminating the oil. They do the same and change head gaskets due to Glycol being listed, in fact most of their maintenance program is based on real world Lab results and comments from Lab experts, rather than wild guess work based on inaccurate advertising or silly forum recommendations.

 

It's also fun to try and see if you can keep the UOA results good enough to know that your beloved donkey is being well cared for. Alas I've already reported several members to the RSPCA for oil and fuel abuse!

 

PS: I'm also a bit of a tuning fan as regards extras, or upgrades, note the cover needs a vent fitting which I'm working on in parts terms, so it vents back to the air filter. Venting an engine into an engine bay is daft, as it's unhealthy unless it's a fully sealed one, and even then it will make the bay dirty.

 

 Anyone see any cool looking BMC extras or parts, please send a link.

[cuthound]

On 18/11/2021 at 17:49, TNLI said:

Gasoil Analysis | Red Diesel Testing | The Oil Lab

 

I don't know that company or how much they charge for a FAR, (Fuel Analysis Report), but I will send them a message to see if they can comment on which Red or Marine diesel companies are adding lubricity additives. I know some of the more expensive marine diesel supply companies did add something that increased their fuels lubricity, but that was years ago. If your local fuel company does add it, then it will probably be mentioned on the web site some place, BUT only if it is a trustworthy major brand fuel company, as it's not uncommon for some Red or cheap diesel fuel suppliers to talk the talk about Biocides and Lubricity adds, but then forget to include them. 

 

If you do decide to use a diesel fuel additive, I really would not use one from any company apart from the same list as I always recommend for engine oils, Liqui Moly, Mobil, Castrol and Shell. I read some UOA results for some oil additives from minor Wanabee companies that were are real horror story, with one selling what appeared to be a used machine oil that had been filtered, as a flush additive.

 

If you think your injectors might be a bit clogged up with varnish deposits, LM do make a very popular additive for use during the cars fuel filter service. It's called Diesel Purge and is not a drive around additive, its only fed through the injection system with the engine at idle.

Some diesels that are used at low power, as many canal boats are, tend to suffer from the effects of varnish like deposits clogging up their injectors, the tips in particular.

 

PS: it appears this oil lab does used oil analysis, for a reasonable figure: 

 

Car Engine Oil Analysis | Best Oil Testing Lab UK | The Oil Lab

 

Not sure how they display the results, as you would need to have spent a few days studying UOA to understand what they mean, AND a real good lab like Blackstones in the US has a set of average figures for most engine types, which makes it easier in comparison terms. They also comment on all results, so they will tell you what is wrong, with comments like, this oil is badly contaminated with diesel fuel and should be changed ASAP, or the high Lead and Iron figures suggest a developing issue with the main bearings, so you might consider changing to a thicker oil with more Zinc/Magnesium, (DZZP), additives.

Nearly all the big 18 wheel trucks and buses in the US, and many in the UK & EU, only change their oil when a test sample, (100ml), shows that they need to change the oil, filter, or both. Oddly enough changing the oil too early can increase wear in many cases, although that is a complicated story in explanation terms.

 

If you really want your beloved new or even old donkey to last as long as possible before it starts smoking or failing to start, understanding the basics of an oil analysis report, and the issues associated with poor quality oils and fuel, along with how you operate a diesel to avoid extra wear occurring, will make a big difference. There are also a number of mod's that can help increase the life expectancy of a diesel, like 12V stick on heat pads to warm up the oil and entire engine, (If you leave the pads on all night), like those made by Wolverine. Avoiding cold starts is one good move in main block wear terms.

 

Diesel fuel in the UK is made to a British Standard, BS EN 590 for white diesel and BS 2869 Class B2 for red diesel, and thus meets a minimum quality standard. However to he fuel companies find it cheaper to add red dye and a marker to white diesel now, rather than produce two separate fuels.

 

I used to work for BT and was responsible for their 6500 standby diesel generators, rating from 10kVA to 3000kVA, with a value of well over £1billion, and had to ascertain that the ultra low sulphur fuel would be suitable for them with our without additives. Several laboratories were used to help make the decision.

 

Bog standard ultra low sulphur fuel was found to suitable for all of the relatively modern engines, but a lubricity additive was required for the handful of older engines to replace the lubricity lost by the reduction in sulphur and to prevent the rubber seals used in older fuel systems from shrinking.

 

Other additives were found to be not needed.

 

Remember that Liqui Moly's core business is additives, so they will always advise you to use their additives, which for most engines are really not needed.

 

 

Edited November 21, 2021 by cuthound
Clarification

[Tony Brooks]

1 hour ago, cuthound said:

 

Diesel fuel in the UK is made to a British Standard, BS EN 590 for white diesel and BS 2869 Class B2 for red diesel, and thus meets a minimum quality standard. However to he fuel companies find it cheaper to add red dye and a marker to white diesel now, rather than produce two separate fuels.

 

I used to work for BT and was responsible for their 6500 standby diesel generators, rating from 10kVA to 3000kVA, with a value of well over £1billion, and had to ascertain that the ultra low sulphur fuel would be suitable for them with our without additives. Several laboratories were used to help make the decision.

 

Bog standard ultra low sulphur fuel was found to suitable for all of the relatively modern engines, but a lubricity additive was required for the handful of older engines to replace the lubricity lost by the reduction in sulphur and to prevent the rubber seals used in older fuel systems from shrinking.

 

Other additives were found to be not needed.

 

Remember that Liqui Moly's core business is additives, so they will always advise you to use their additives, which for most engines are really not needed.

 

 

 

Thank you, that is my understanding of the situation. I would comment that if the seals leak now, so long after low sulpher diesel became mandatory, the pump is likely to be well worn and additives are not likely to make a useful difference.

[TNLI]

5 hours ago, cuthound said:

 

Diesel fuel in the UK is made to a British Standard, BS EN 590 for white diesel and BS 2869 Class B2 for red diesel, and thus meets a minimum quality standard. However to he fuel companies find it cheaper to add red dye and a marker to white diesel now, rather than produce two separate fuels.

 

I used to work for BT and was responsible for their 6500 standby diesel generators, rating from 10kVA to 3000kVA, with a value of well over £1billion, and had to ascertain that the ultra low sulphur fuel would be suitable for them with our without additives. Several laboratories were used to help make the decision.

 

Bog standard ultra low sulphur fuel was found to suitable for all of the relatively modern engines, but a lubricity additive was required for the handful of older engines to replace the lubricity lost by the reduction in sulphur and to prevent the rubber seals used in older fuel systems from shrinking.

 

Other additives were found to be not needed.

 

Remember that Liqui Moly's core business is additives, so they will always advise you to use their additives, which for most engines are really not needed.

 

5 hours ago, cuthound said:

 

Thanks for that and it's good that you have confirmed that a lubricity additive can be required for some diesel engines due to the type of seals used. One point for any owner or operator who is concerned about lubricity or the dreaded diesel bug Biocides, is that in general terms you definitely try to avoid using any additive at all that is not make by a major brand oil company. A lot of different small companies have made some type of diesel bug killing Biocides, and some of them have turned into a real horror story as regards damage to injection pump seals in particular, although often the genius in charge of pouring the additive into the tank, adds far too much. Some of the bug killing ingredients murder any lubricity as the act like cheap solvents. 

  So I suspect that some of the fuel system seal issues are caused by a combination of both low lubricity diesel fuel that has then been reduced even further by a side effect of a bug killing solvent in the Biocide. 

 

I'm fully aware of who Liqui Moly are, and what they make. They manufacture more different high quality fuel, oil and coolant additives, in addition to servicing related products like their flush additives than any other company. They are the only oil company that answers technical enquiries correctly, as regards any of their products, and they make no attempt to try and sell you the most expensive oil, just the best one for a particular application. Their product data sheets have always been shown to be correct by those checking out a product by sending a sample off to an oil or fluid analysis company.

 

If you are a Castrol fan, they seem to list a few interesting additives in the classic car section, rather than the main engine oil section.

Engine Degreasing Cleaner | Car Oil & Fluids | Castrol UK & IE | CASTROL UK & IRELAND

 

The BMC series are not known for sludge related issues, so the Engine Shampoo would only be required if you can detect a sludge issue whilst draining old oil, or don't like the look of the sump contents. The oil flow around the block should be kept as close to the manufacturers intended flow rates as is practical. Hence it is sometimes necessary to flush out the sump, (Oil pump intake screen in particular), along with the rest of the oil galleries et al. 

  I would note that the flush additives made by Liqui Moly for engine oil, contain some MOS2, (Moly), which is a friction modifier, that can offset the oil film failing because the engineering expert at a quick lube forgets that they added an idle only flush additive to an oil and goes for a high speed test run of the brakes etc. The Castrol Shampoo and the LM flush additives are used at idle RPM only for 10 mins before the oil is changed. 

 

Edited November 21, 2021 by TNLI

[cuthound]

21 minutes ago, TNLI said:

 

 

I'm fully aware of who Liqui Moly are, and what they make. They manufacture more different high quality fuel, oil and coolant additives, in addition to servicing related products like their flush additives than any other company. They are the only oil company that answers technical enquiries correctly, as regards any of their products, and they make no attempt to try and sell you the most expensive oil, just the best one for a particular application. Their product data sheets have always been shown to be correct by those checking out a product by sending a sample off to an oil or fluid analysis company.

 

If you are a Castrol fan, they seem to list a few interesting additives in the classic car section, rather than the main engine oil section.

Engine Degreasing Cleaner | Car Oil & Fluids | Castrol UK & IE | CASTROL UK & IRELAND

 

The BMC series are not known for sludge related issues, so the Engine Shampoo would only be required if you can detect a sludge issue whilst draining old oil, or don't like the look of the sump contents. The oil flow around the block should be kept as close to the manufacturers intended flow rates as is practical. Hence it is sometimes necessary to flush out the sump.

 

 

My last shareboat had a Turkish built BMC 1.8 engine. It was serviced regularly, using the cheapest CC grade oil available with no additives and managed 13,500 hours before requiring a rebuild.

 

I'm not convinced that additives are necessary for ling engine life.

[TNLI]

1 hour ago, cuthound said:

 

My last shareboat had a Turkish built BMC 1.8 engine. It was serviced regularly, using the cheapest CC grade oil available with no additives and managed 13,500 hours before requiring a rebuild.

 

I'm not convinced that additives are necessary for ling engine life.

Some of the old fishing boat donkeys made 50K hours over 20 to 30 years before being rebuilt, and there are 2 more modern local buses in my area that have done over 3 million miles of hard duty without a full rebuild, although they do not start too well due to low compression issues. 

 

One big advantage is that Turkey is fairly warm, so you do not get much in the way of extra cold start wear, which is often the main cause of general block wear. The additives included in a good engine oil are most important when the oil film breaks down, or is just not present as happens for the first few seconds of a cold start. So using a real good major brand oil is far more important when a diesel is subject to severe service abuse, overheating, or fuel contamination thinning the oil. 

 

There is no need to use any additional additives for a good oil, as they will already be included. There is a case for using a lubricity fuel additive for a new or fairly new HP fuel pump, although I will look up how much Bio diesel is required to achieve the same result as a Liqui Moly lubricity additive.

[Tracy D'arth]

More repetitive claptrap from Liquid Molly, has he nowhere else to spout? Nothing better to do?

 

I just worry that some with less experience will be misled by this assumed fact rubbish.

[Bod]

On 18/11/2021 at 21:37, TNLI said:

2 rebuilds is 2 too many, although to get a marine diesel to last as long as many marine diesels in good offshore fishing boats or good quality generator sets last if they are maintained correctly, does require that you understand why your engine needed to be rebuilt.

 

Typical list of reasons for a BMC 1500:

1/ Poor quality engine oils, filters, (Oil and fuel in particular). Old donkeys like oils that have a high DZZP and detergent content, but what they get fed in many cases is junk oil with very low, or even no additives.

2/ Too long an oil change interval, (The OCI in many cases needs to be based on the 2% max fuel contamination figure). In reality you do need to do an occasional used oil analysis, (Blackstones Labs in the US are cheap and will e mail the report and what they think of the oil and engine, plus average figures for the same engine and the test kit is free). to figure out if you need to adjust your oil or filter change intervals, AND it might even result in you using a heavier oil than normal towards the end of the blocks life.

3/ Overheating incidents that cause extra wear to occur, that can damage the head gasket or even warp the crank shaft or head itself if really bad. 

4/ Cold start abuse, (A heat pad can make a real big difference up North).

5/ Failure to comprehend just how important the lubricity of a fuel is if you have an engine that has seals that need what is in effect a lubricant. That issue can be made far worse if the secondary fuel filter is of the wrong type in both quality or micron rating terms. It needs to be a fuel filter made by a good German company with a fine rating, although I have not looked up the exact figures. You will often find the secondary filter is a far Eastern copy and is a coarse filter that might be OK for a primary, but will be real bad news if used as a secondary.

6/ Operators that slam the throttle open or shut too quickly.

7/ Fitting a big diesel in a small canal boat, so that the owner can discover just what a bad idea using low power settings is for a non common rail ECU controlled diesel is.

8/ Failing to clean the injector tips by using an idle only flush, (More important if you use low power settings), every year or so. (On a car diesel I run LM Purge through the injection system for 10 mins at idle every 50K for a town car, or 100K km for an autobahn flyer).

9/ Not decoking the cylinders of a low power afflicted canal boat. You can do this by taking the head off, or just anchoring or tying up to a well built pier and running a few hundred RPM below max continuous RPM for 10 hours just before the start of the summer season.

10/ Failing to correctly inhibit the donkey during winter, or not running it every month minimum. If you leave old oil in an engine for 6 months or so, the acids in a cheap old oil will do a real nasty job on the main block. In fact they can cause more corrosion related extra wear than a real busy summer season causes. Same game for Red diesel that has a high water content that is left in the HP pump all winter. 

 

That list is not in order of importance, and I did not mention the air filter, because I tend to rely on the Silicon figure (Ultra fine sand), to let me know if the air filter needs changing. I also missed failing to adjust the injection timing or tappets correctly, although those are service related.

Please define "up north"

4/ Cold start abuse, (A heat pad can make a real big difference up North).

Are you talking north of Watford Gap, or north of the Arctic Circle?

 

Bod.

 

 

[john.k]

Castrol Shampoo.....is this for 'her indoors'...or the dog?..

[TNLI]

5 hours ago, john.k said:

Castrol Shampoo.....is this for 'her indoors'...or the dog?..

It's a universal product for anything oily, like your BMC, greasy dog, or even your wife, if she has too much top end varnish, or bottom end black sludge.

15 quid from Fleabay or Amazingzone, rather than 6 quid for the equivalent Wynns engine oil flush. Quite a bargain if you feel lucky, but definitely not if it turns out that the R&D experts at their main HQ failed to check for its compatibility with all the old generation oil seals.

  Oil system flush additives are definitely worth avoiding if possible, as the safe ones are expensive, but they really do get rid of any traces of Brylcreem in your hair!

 

Shell also produce a well know engine hair oil solvent:

 

Shell Engine Flush - Recochem Shell Car Care (expertsincarcare.com)

 

Edited November 22, 2021 by TNLI

[Tony Brooks]

9 hours ago, Tracy D'arth said:

More repetitive claptrap from Liquid Molly, has he nowhere else to spout? Nothing better to do?

 

I just worry that some with less experience will be misled by this assumed fact rubbish.

 

I think the last sentiment needs reinforcing. Experience across thousands of boaters shows different to much of what he claims. 

[cuthound]

13 hours ago, TNLI said:

Some of the old fishing boat donkeys made 50K hours over 20 to 30 years before being rebuilt, and there are 2 more modern local buses in my area that have done over 3 million miles of hard duty without a full rebuild, although they do not start too well due to low compression issues. 

 

One big advantage is that Turkey is fairly warm, so you do not get much in the way of extra cold start wear, which is often the main cause of general block wear. The additives included in a good engine oil are most important when the oil film breaks down, or is just not present as happens for the first few seconds of a cold start. So using a real good major brand oil is far more important when a diesel is subject to severe service abuse, overheating, or fuel contamination thinning the oil. 

 

There is no need to use any additional additives for a good oil, as they will already be included. There is a case for using a lubricity fuel additive for a new or fairly new HP fuel pump, although I will look up how much Bio diesel is required to achieve the same result as a Liqui Moly lubricity additive.

 

I think if you ask boaters and boatyards with experience of BMC engines, you will find that 13,500 hours between rebuilds is considered to be good.

 

Don't forget the BMC 1.5 and 1.8 diesel engines are marinised car engines based on petrol engines, rather than a purpose designed diesel engines.

Edited November 22, 2021 by cuthound
Spillung

[john.k]

Would be surprising seeing as no Austin,Morris,BMC or BL car ever made 30,000 miles without smoking.......maybe the Turk ones are better !

[TNLI]

Just had a natter with one of the Sunseeker engineers who knows all about reconditioned injection system parts, as he used to manage a diesel injection shop in Southampton. He said that the reason why BMC fuel pumps are prone to leaky seals, is a bit more complicated than I thought, although he did say that a lack of lubricity additives in cheap diesel brands, both red and road diesel was a significant factor, as was using El cheapo biocides to try and kill black diesel bug, BUT he also stated that many diesel injection specialists who recondition both HP fuel pumps and injectors, are using poor quality seals in the case of the pumps, and far Eastern injector tips that corrode fairly quickly if the engine is not run for a significant period. I suspect those injection shops also sell cans of diesel bug killer that contain nasty filtered used machine oil and industrial alcohol. 

  Apparently many of the rebuilt pumps are failing well before the OEM pumps failed in engine hours terms.

 

If you do have cheap reconditioned injectors and your canal boat is not used during the winter, then correctly inhibiting it in the way described in most operators manual should be OK for the lift and HP injection pump, but not for the actual injectors. So if you are laying up your pride and joy, I would consider removing the injectors and storing them in engine oil, after running the diesel oil mix through them, as per the manual.

[TNLI]

14 hours ago, cuthound said:

 

I think if you ask boaters and boatyards with experience of BMC engines, you will find that 13,500 hours between rebuilds is considered to be good.

 

Don't forget the BMC 1.5 and 1.8 diesel engines are marinised car engines based on petrol engines, rather than a purpose designed diesel engines.

The vast majority of marine engines are based on a diesel block that is or was used in a diesel car or truck. There are a few exceptions, like the Bukh series, but many of the engines in the commercial fishing boats that clocked up some biblical hours before being reconditioned or replaced, that I remember crewing or skippering were based on diesel truck blocks. None of those old donkeys failed, they just smoked and dripped oil far too much, and the only boat that did have a main block failure had new Cummins diesels. The diesel engine dropped a valve.

  The BMC 1500 block is one of the best around, apart from the fact the crankshaft does not appreciate repeated overheating, or running with badly worn main bearings. Solvent abuse can also cause the torsional damper to degrade, which then allows the crank to start vibrating. Some of the parts used for the marine engine are from BMC petrol engines. The quality of the bearings used by in the days that British Leyland was a big player, were far higher than those used by most of the modern marine diesels.

 One big advantage a commercial boat engine has, is that then do not keep stopping and starting, most of them are not used at too low a power setting, cold starts are rare as the engine bay or room often has a generator on when the main engine is off, so it does not too cold. They also use fairly good quality oil and filters often from a fishing cooperative who bulk buy engine oil etc. The Spanish tuna fleet and local boats all use CEPSA engine oils, which seemed fairly good, although it is probably the biggest oil company in Spain.

  I never once met a crew that used biocide for diesel bug. They just used a fuel polishing rig or cleaned the tanks out. The skipper of the boat I was on whilst learning how to catch big tuna, was a total horror story in terms of fuel filter or even oil filter changes, as he had differential oil pressure gauges to tell if the filter was blocked, so he could take advantage of the fact that an oil or fuel filter is much more efficient when nearly blocked. 

Edited November 23, 2021 by TNLI

[Marko J]

Hi to everyone. I have a dutch boat with an BMC 1.5 diesel. I had a similar problem with oil sump with mixed oil and fuel. I took out 11 liters of that liquid oil from the sump before servicing Fuel Injection Pump which was the problem. Some sealing inside the pump had failure and because of that a lot of fuel ended mixed with oil. Also I replaced injector nozzles with new ones. After that, returned Fuel Pump back. At first point, it seemed to me it was easy to return it back in because it was pinion inside with a wide looking master pin. I returned pump and pipes back, did bleeding and engine started after few starting attempts. But it was the strange sound with few knocking and smoke from the oil filler cap. Engine do not achieve proper revs when idling - sound like it will stop. After checking BMC 1.5 manual I've noticed Injection Timing Adjustment section with and instruction about proper position of Fuel pump. 

Do I need to do like manual says and to find those angles (208 degrees etc) ? 
Pics shows pump after removing and before it was rebuilt. 

 

 

Edited December 16, 2021 by Marko J

[Tony Brooks]

If you only took the injector pump off, left the timing cover in place and did not withdraw the skew gear shaft then all you should need to do is align the master spline, fit the pump, twisting it to align the pointer on the mounting block with the line scribed on the pump flange and bleed it.  All the rest is to do with when the skew gear drive has been removed and/or the timing chain has been taken off.

 

If the pump shop did not set it up and scribe the line then try twisting the pump while the engine is running to see if you can  make the running any better. I very much doubt that you could get the  timing gauge to reset the pointer on the mounting block.

 

Simply taking the pump out and putting it back should not upset the valve or skew gear timing but I wonder if the diluted oil has damaged the rubber block on the timing chain tensioner. Try putting large screwdriver into the splines at the pump end of the skew gear shaft and see how far you can twist it in either direction, it should be very, very little. The more backlash the more worn the timing chain etc. or the pump drive/camshaft skew gears.

[mtbvincent]

Update 

I had my pump rebuild by a professional 💪. 

 

After i fitted the pump i noticed something is different.

the engine exhaust does smoke more and there is some oil on the water surface.

I cant get it running nice, when i cut the throttle it stops and after adjusting the pump...  warm start can only be done with a lot of throttle. 

I did turn the pump housing a bit left and right, the only difference i noticed was more rpm of less while turning it.

Smoke stays and the oil on the surface of the water stays....

 

I did not take out the Skew gear (the part inside the engine block) and don' think it sits different than before.

 

Is there something i am missing.

Can you advise me PLEASEEEE  😨 🙏  are there some steps i can take to check whats wrong?

 

With kind regards 

Vincent Holland 

 

 

 

[Tony Brooks]

Assuming there are no mistakes in the pump rebuild and setting then it has to be timing but whether its cam shaft timing (which it should not be unless the dilution caused excess wear) or pump timing I can't say. If you have not taken the skew gear out then that timing should still be OK.  I have explained a check for backlash in the camshaft drive and skew gear.

 

Smoke and oil on the water may well  take a time to stop because of the build up of fuel/oil in the exhaust. 

 

I can't say more but perhaps @Tracy D'arth could add some more.

 

We understand from another poster that it is not possible to assemble the shafts inside the pump incorrectly and thus mess the injection timing up.

 

There seems to be some unusual parts on your pump where the idle damper is usually fitted so I would say it is not a common 1.5 pump and I don't know what those parts are.

 

 

[Marko J]

@Tony Brooks This is mine pump. Mechanic changed idling part on the very top of the pump since the old one leaked fuel. 

 

[Tony Brooks]

That one has the idle damper, have you tried adjusting it, but I can't see it causing smoke and oil on the water.

[mtbvincent]

9 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

That one has the idle damper, have you tried adjusting it, but I can't see it causing smoke and oil on the water.

This is not my (movie) post its from Marko 🙂

Edited December 17, 2021 by mtbvincent

[Tony Brooks]

1 minute ago, mtbvincent said:

This is not my post its from Marko 🙂

 

That is the trouble when people simply add their question to an existing topic. It is too easy to lose track. Can we assume that you are happy with your pump & engine or do you have a problem.