BMC 1.5 Oil with a lot of fuel in it.

[cuthound]

50 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

You do realise that piece originated in 1998, so is nearly a quarter of a century old. If not look at what book it was taken form and the publication date.

 

Exactly, USLD was introduced into the UK in 2000.

 

I worked for BT at the time and who had over 30 million litres of higher sulphur diesel left in the fuel tanks of generators at over 6,000 sites, which BT didn't want to scrap.

 

I led a project to dilute the old diesel (typically 1% sulphur) with new ULS diesel (<0.0001% sulphur) so that it met with the new legislation which required diesel to be less than 0.1% sulphur, and added lubricity additives so that it still meet the lubricity requirements of BT's older generators.

 

A contract was let to a company who collected the old diesel, diluted it and added a lubricity improver, then stored it and delivered what was required to the the BT sites until the old stock was exhausted.

 

In the course of setting up this this project I met with the representatives of various fuel companies who all said the new ULSD diesel was road diesel with a dye added, because it was no longer economical for them to produce gas oil (the correct name for red diesel) as a separate product.

Edited September 20, 2021 by cuthound
Spillung

[Tony Brooks]

40 minutes ago, cuthound said:

 

Exactly, USLD was introduced into the UK in 2000.

 

I worked for BT at the time and who had over 30 million litres of higher sulphur diesel left in the fuel tanks of generators at over 6,000 sites, which BT didn't want to scrap.

 

I led a project to dilute the old diesel (typically 1% sulphur) with new ULS diesel (<0.0001% sulphur) so that it met with the new legislation which required diesel to be less than 0.1% sulphur, and added lubricity additives so that it still meet the lubricity requirements of BT's older generators.

 

A contract was let to a company who collected the old diesel, diluted it and added a lubricity improver, then stored it and delivered what was required to the the BT sites until the old stock was exhausted.

 

In the course of setting up this this project I met with the representatives of various fuel companies who all said the new ULSD diesel was road diesel with a dye added, because it was no longer economical for them to produce gas oil (the correct name for red diesel) as a separate product.

 

To be honest, I think the poster concerned is a pest and a danger to less technical people, either directly or via their wallets. I can't remember such apparently positive postings that have been so contrary to what has been accepted for many years. To me, he seems to be an ill-informed Internet warrior. I think the case for some type of action against him needs discussing by the mods to see if there is a case for  either warning him or just banning him. I can see no justification for digging up so many zombie topics, apparently just so you can expound your views.

[TNLI]

This is a current description of the differences between red and white diesel, although it fails to say anything about the Bio content, or the fact that white diesel has a different gell point additive during the winter to prevent wax forming below minus 15c.

 

Red Diesel Facts – Craggs Energy

 

I base all my posts on as many facts as possible, and this one confirms the last post saying the 2 types are different is correct. Just to complicate things slightly, agricultural and marine diesel have some different additives, but it depends on the company involved.

 

I would also point out that if you manage to visit the canals in the EU, their marine fuel tends to be a high Sulphur one if you buy it from a river or canal marine fuel station. High Sulphur diesel is not good news at low power settings, as it does not burn off, it forms Sulphuric acid and that can add to cylinder wear rates, When combined with the Carbon deposits older diesels can suffer from at low power settings, it is even more bad news. 

  The only other issue I've found in some warm countries, is that they add a few percent of industrial alcohol to the diesel mix. That additive is perfectly OK at low or normal cruise power settings, but very Iffy in pre-ignition terms at full power. In reality adding any type of Biocide is bad news.

 

This is another article which confirms why I don't like red diesel:

Red diesel: The problems uncovered - Farmers Weekly (fwi.co.uk)

 

This is about the Baja fuel filter:

Baja Filter - MyBoatsGear.com

Alas that's an old article and they are out of production. If anyone sees a used one, please let me know. Alas my last boat was sold after I finished circumnavigating in her, in the Canary Islands, as that was where I started. My bags were full, so I made the terrible mistake of abandoning bar far the best pre filter ever made. All you can find now are plastic fuel pre filters that are nothing like as good as the real thing.

Edited September 20, 2021 by TNLI

[TNLI]

More info on the effects of using the new low sulphur diesel:

Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel (ULSD): the Good, the Bad, and the Rusty (axi-international.com)

 

Luckily the major brand white diesel companies do add lubricity additives. It does seem that changing from high to low Sulphur diesel is a case of swapping one problem for another, as high Suphur fuel might be good for injection pumps, but bad for Suphuric acid related wear factors at low power, BUT low Sulphur diesel can cause corrosion. So it seems that what is needed is a medium Sulphur level diesel fuel.

 

The crazy thing is that the very fuel that most boaters were told was good for their engine is red marine diesel fuel. This article explains why the EU has got us into such a mess, and once again confirms by belief that if you only need small quantities of diesel, then white diesel is a better choice:

https://axi-international.com/ultra-low-sulfur-diesel-ulsd/

 

Hope that clarifies the red and white diesel Sulphur story, and if anyone finds a Baja fuel fuel filter with all 3 filter screens intact, do not buy it, it's the worst pre filter ever made, so just send me the link so I can buy it, and confirm just how bad it is.

[cuthound]

2 hours ago, TNLI said:

More info on the effects of using the new low sulphur diesel:

Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel (ULSD): the Good, the Bad, and the Rusty (axi-international.com)

 

Luckily the major brand white diesel companies do add lubricity additives. It does seem that changing from high to low Sulphur diesel is a case of swapping one problem for another, as high Suphur fuel might be good for injection pumps, but bad for Suphuric acid related wear factors at low power, BUT low Sulphur diesel can cause corrosion. So it seems that what is needed is a medium Sulphur level diesel fuel.

 

The crazy thing is that the very fuel that most boaters were told was good for their engine is red marine diesel fuel. This article explains why the EU has got us into such a mess, and once again confirms by belief that if you only need small quantities of diesel, then white diesel is a better choice:

https://axi-international.com/ultra-low-sulfur-diesel-ulsd/

 

Hope that clarifies the red and white diesel Sulphur story, and if anyone finds a Baja fuel fuel filter with all 3 filter screens intact, do not buy it, it's the worst pre filter ever made, so just send me the link so I can buy it, and confirm just how bad it is.

 

A different view from a major UK fuel supplier.

 

https://www.rix.co.uk/gas-oil/

 

Red diesel purchased during the winter months also has an anti-waxing additive. If it didn't we wouldn't be able to use our narrowboat during cold spells.

[TNLI]

1 hour ago, cuthound said:

 

A different view from a major UK fuel supplier.

 

https://www.rix.co.uk/gas-oil/

 

Red diesel purchased during the winter months also has an anti-waxing additive. If it didn't we wouldn't be able to use our narrowboat during cold spells.

Good to see a company that supplies both high and low Sulphur diesel if you are near a farm. Not sure what happened in the UK to red fuel at truck stops.

[TNLI]

On 11/08/2021 at 10:11, mtbvincent said:

Thanks for your help Tony.

Sow it is possible that the pump is leaking inwards? 

I wil check my local diesel specialist if he knows the pump.

This weekend i am finaly taking the boat out for a smal trip.. curious to see what the oil level does after a couple of hours runnig.

Just to be sure i have taken the hose of that runs the oil pan fuems back into the engine...

 

 

ARRRR!  The crankcase vent tube is normally routed to the exhaust, not back to the block, or wherevever you have attached it. So look in your mantenance manual and put it back where r Morris intended it.

If the vent hose is blocke off, any diesel fuel in the oil will not evapourate when the oil gets hot. That could be a big reason why diesel fuel is accumulating in the block.

[Tony Brooks]

3 hours ago, TNLI said:

ARRRR!  The crankcase vent tube is normally routed to the exhaust, not back to the block, or wherevever you have attached it. So look in your mantenance manual and put it back where r Morris intended it.

If the vent hose is blocke off, any diesel fuel in the oil will not evapourate when the oil gets hot. That could be a big reason why diesel fuel is accumulating in the block.

 

Please stop commenting on things you clearly know nothing about.

 

1. This is a canal boat forum, and it is very doubtful if the oil will ever get hot enough to evaporate any water off, let alone diesel fuel. Indeed, it has been known for inland engines with oil coolers to run the oil so cool it emulsifies into a thick black sludge. (Perkins 4-10X).  Your sea boats are likely to run the oil much hotter in the same engine.

 

2. I have yet to see any crankcase breather hose venting into the exhaust. If t did exhaust back pressure and temperature will make the crankcase pressure higher and see what happens to EGR valves on vehicles I dread to think  what it would do to the oil.

 

Originally on the vehicle version, the breather just vented into the air beside the sump. The marine version vented into the air cleaner, so simply removing the hose for the air cleaner just returning it to as originally designed.

 

Many industrial and marine engines have internal breathers that vent from inside the rocker cover into the inlet ports in the head.

 

Oh, and by the way, that design of engine and head was an Austin initiative that Morris got when BMC was formed. The Nuffield group (Morris) OHV engines were rather different.

 

 

Edited September 22, 2021 by Tony Brooks

[TNLI]

I clearly stated to look at the maintenance manual to see where it is routed, as there are a number of different places it could go. Diesel in the oil does evapourate off if the engine gets warm, obviously if you fit too big an engine to a canal boat it might not, but it is still worth making sure the vent hose is correct. Alas the Bio diesel content will not evapourate, so there will be a gradual build up of diesel fuel to some extent. Once it's reached about 5% you can smell it on the dipstick, although the recommended long term limit in the oil is only 2%. Even if you use a heavier oil is does interfere with some of the anti wear additives included in the oil.

 

It's a pity when someone makes a post that is misleading, that members of this forum sometimes feel obiged to make unpleasant replies. All that was needed from the last expert was a copy of the diagram showing where the vent hose should be routed. I presume if the OP pulled it off, they might know.

 

At the end of the day, the HP pump, (If that is the source of the contamination), is going to need new seals. So it would be useful if some good person could say where the best recon pumps are obtained from, and copy how they are fitted.

 

[Tracy D'arth]

5 hours ago, TNLI said:

ARRRR!  The crankcase vent tube is normally routed to the exhaust, not back to the block, or wherevever you have attached it. So look in your mantenance manual and put it back where r Morris intended it.

If the vent hose is blocke off, any diesel fuel in the oil will not evapourate when the oil gets hot. That could be a big reason why diesel fuel is accumulating in the block.

Total CR*P.  Stop making incorrect misleading posts. 

[Tony Brooks]

24 minutes ago, TNLI said:

I clearly stated to look at the maintenance manual to see where it is routed, as there are a number of different places it could go. Diesel in the oil does evapourate off if the engine gets warm, obviously if you fit too big an engine to a canal boat it might not, but it is still worth making sure the vent hose is correct. Alas the Bio diesel content will not evapourate, so there will be a gradual build up of diesel fuel to some extent. Once it's reached about 5% you can smell it on the dipstick, although the recommended long term limit in the oil is only 2%. Even if you use a heavier oil is does interfere with some of the anti wear additives included in the oil.

 

It's a pity when someone makes a post that is misleading, that members of this forum sometimes feel obiged to make unpleasant replies. All that was needed from the last expert was a copy of the diagram showing where the vent hose should be routed. I presume if the OP pulled it off, they might know.

 

At the end of the day, the HP pump, (If that is the source of the contamination), is going to need new seals. So it would be useful if some good person could say where the best recon pumps are obtained from, and copy how they are fitted.

 

 

You make so many posts that are downright wrong, ill-informed, and misleading in a manner that makes you sound an expert to the inexperienced, you must expect some kick back from those that are experienced. I try to be very restrained, but with much more of your bullshine I will reply and probably get censured by the mods. I have no idea why they have not censured you already.

 

Any chance of using the normal UK terminology rather than suggest the injector pump deals with brown sauce.

 

Are you talking about fitting the seals or the pump to the  engine?

 

If the former you don't do it, you take the pump to one of the fuel injection equipment specialists that are located in almost all major towns. Any marina, boatyard or local car shop should be able to give contact details.

 

If the latter, then I have described the job a number of times on here and am not going to go through it all again just for you - find the manual on the internet, it's easy enough. There are links on a number of forum topics as well, just like there are recommendations for pump specialist in various locations.

Edited September 22, 2021 by Tony Brooks

[Tracy D'arth]

6 minutes ago, TNLI said:

I clearly stated to look at the maintenance manual to see where it is routed, as there are a number of different places it could go. Diesel in the oil does evapourate off if the engine gets warm, obviously if you fit too big an engine to a canal boat it might not, but it is still worth making sure the vent hose is correct. Alas the Bio diesel content will not evapourate, so there will be a gradual build up of diesel fuel to some extent. Once it's reached about 5% you can smell it on the dipstick, although the recommended long term limit in the oil is only 2%. Even if you use a heavier oil is does interfere with some of the anti wear additives included in the oil.

 

It's a pity when someone makes a post that is misleading, that members of this forum sometimes feel obiged to make unpleasant replies. All that was needed from the last expert was a copy of the diagram showing where the vent hose should be routed. I presume if the OP pulled it off, they might know.

 

At the end of the day, the HP pump, (If that is the source of the contamination), is going to need new seals. So it would be useful if some good person could say where the best recon pumps are obtained from, and copy how they are fitted.

 

Either go away and pester the YBW forum or only post on something that you KNOW ABOUT.    Your erroneous answers are getting dangerous, no BMC engine has a crankcase breather as you quoted, it would never work anyway.

[TNLI]

I'm surprised that some posters who both believe that red and white diesel are the same, can't read. So here is the part they missed:

 

So look in your mantenance manual and put it back where Morris intended it. 

 

There is no back pressure on most older marine exhaust systems, some are just a vented loop to a direct tube, although I always fit a goosenek or Vetus box to prevent any sea water entering. Even with one fitted there is no back pressue, which is why is it possible to fit a breather to the exhaust system. 

 

One point worth making is that some crancase vents have a one way valve in them that can get sludged up. Luckily this is not the case on any marine diesels I've seen.  I have had one case some years ago when a sludge monster blocked up the crankcase vent and blew the hose off, (Bend in the hose was a bit too tight), which could be dangerous in terms of fumes. That was an old Yanmar and it had to be rebuilt. 

 

PS: If you are looking for cheap but good major brand oils. Opie oils in the UK seems to stock most types, and Shell Rimula 5 or 15w40 is often cheaper than the equivalent Castrol or Mobil oils. Rimula has a first class reputation with owners and operators who judge their oil and filter changes from used oil analysis. A UOA result will not show fuel contamination below 1%, it's just marked as trace. If you do have an engine that has poor compression, or Iffy fuel pumps, it's a real good idea to send of a 200ml sample to a lab like Blackstones to see what exactly is going on in contamination terms. I use them for all the engines I'm responsible for because they have a big data base of previous results for nearly every type of diesel, in addition to VOA results on file. Their comments are very reliable. There are labs in the UK that can provide a similar service, BUT they do not comment on the results or have such a good set of averages for comparison. They can save you a small fourtune in the long term, by letting you figure out when the oil and/or filter should be changed, and is also fairly good at detecting main block faults, like a leaking head gasket or impending bearing failures.

 

Blackstone Laboratories (blackstone-labs.com)

 

I would note that they also do fuel analysis, although I've not done one with them.

Edited September 22, 2021 by TNLI

[Tony Brooks]

Put what back where Morris intended it? Do you mean the breather, if so it was not Morris, Austin or BMC who fitted it to the air cleaner? It was Newage, the original official BMC marinise of the 1.5  engine. Other marinisers just followed suit because it is an easy mod to avoid crankcase fumes in the engine bay, not that it would be a problem in a half decent engine because the engine would just draw them in and burn them.

 

Once again, little experience of inland canal practice. We mainly use a dry exhaust systems with a silencer. Silencers tend to cause back pressure, just as they do on a car. Even a wet exhaust with a swan neck will create back pressure because it is having to blow quantities of water up hill.

 

In the case of the crankcase vent valves. As you imply you know all about lifeboat regs I am surprised that you have never seen the valve on the Bukh engines that are used on many ships' lifeboats. This is not the case on the BMC 1.x engines, but they do have a mesh oil mist trap in the later side plates the breather is fitted to. These can block, but not as readily as the older ones with just a baffle and a small gap for the gasses.

 

There is no reason to rebuild an engine just because a breather blocked and blew off. However, for it to do that it was probably very well worn and that was why it needed rebuilding and why if blocked and blew the hose off.

 

To new members and new boaters, please ignore this breather nonsense. Have a look at the posting history and how often the posters who have responded to TNLI on other  threads have proven to have been correct and how many corroborate the advice. Then your own mind up as to who is likely to provide the more reliable advice.

[StephenA]

2 hours ago, TNLI said:

There is no back pressure on most older marine exhaust systems, some are just a vented loop to a direct tube, although I always fit a goosenek or Vetus box to prevent any sea water entering. Even with one fitted there is no back pressue, which is why is it possible to fit a breather to the exhaust system. 

 

 

 

This is a canal boat forum - so we don't worry about sea water, but most of us are concerned about noise and will have a silencer fitted (the one on our BMC 1.5 is about 2 feet long)

[Tony Brooks]

2 minutes ago, StephenA said:

 

This is a canal boat forum - so we don't worry about sea water, but most of us are concerned about noise and will have a silencer fitted (the one on our BMC 1.5 is about 2 feet long)

 

Even on many wet exhaust boats you find the water pulses out of the exhaust because of the exhaust gasses have to build up enough pressure to  expel the water. At higher speeds the water does come out in a steady flow.

 

I just did a quick calculation of likely gas flows from a 1500 CC engine at 1200 RPM and allowing an 80% volumetric efficiency and before allowing for the temperature rise and the contribution of the burned fuel it came out at about 720 litres of gas per minute. So allowing for the heat and contribution from the diesel, I guess we are looking at may be 1000 litres per minute. How  easily will that flow through a (say) 1.5 bore pipe with bends in it. One must accept that water injected will cool and contract the gasses, but we are still left with more than 720 litres per minute. I can't see how some back pressure can not be avoided close to the engine, and the last thing you want is hot exhaust gasses flowing into the crankcase.

 

To visualise 720 litres, think about a stack of oil cans 12 wide and 12 high.

[TNLI]

This article is worth reading as it covers the effects of diesel contamination of the engine oil:

Four Lethal Diesel Engine Oil Contaminants (machinerylubrication.com)

 

That article does point out that diesel fuel does lower the oils TBN (Total Base Number), so it interferes with the Calcium or Magnesium based detergent additives that help keep Carbon particles in suspension and clean the block of any sludge. 

I would defintely change to using a thicker oil, like a 20w50 or 10w60 if a UOA (Used Oil Analysis) shows more than the 2% the article above mentions as a limit and preferably one with a high TBN. Mobil 1 10w60 EL is about as good as it gets in the thick oil game, although it's fairly expensive. 

Mobil 1™ 10W-60

 

I've always regarded that oil as a sort of last ditch oil that you change to when you have real problems with an old engine. None of the other companies seem to make an equivalent product.

 

 

Edited September 22, 2021 by TNLI

[Sir Nibble]

5 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

Even on many wet exhaust boats you find the water pulses out of the exhaust because of the exhaust gasses have to build up enough pressure to  expel the water. At higher speeds the water does come out in a steady flow.

 

I just did a quick calculation of likely gas flows from a 1500 CC engine at 1200 RPM and allowing an 80% volumetric efficiency and before allowing for the temperature rise and the contribution of the burned fuel it came out at about 720 litres of gas per minute. So allowing for the heat and contribution from the diesel, I guess we are looking at may be 1000 litres per minute. How  easily will that flow through a (say) 1.5 bore pipe with bends in it. One must accept that water injected will cool and contract the gasses, but we are still left with more than 720 litres per minute. I can't see how some back pressure can not be avoided close to the engine, and the last thing you want is hot exhaust gasses flowing into the crankcase.

 

To visualise 720 litres, think about a stack of oil cans 12 wide and 12 high.

Lots lots more. The mass will remain the same as gas passes through the engine but the volume is greater due to the thermal expansion that makes the engine go. 

[Tony Brooks]

1 hour ago, Sir Nibble said:

Lots lots more. The mass will remain the same as gas passes through the engine but the volume is greater due to the thermal expansion that makes the engine go. 

 

That is why I went no further with the calcs (apart from I would have to look up how to do it - near 60 years ago is  a long time. We have to be a bit careful with the temperature thing because the systems TNLI seem to be used to inject water into the exhaust, so the gas temperature normally drops to well below 100C. Unlike dry exhaust systems.

[TNLI]

27 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

That is why I went no further with the calcs (apart from I would have to look up how to do it - near 60 years ago is  a long time. We have to be a bit careful with the temperature thing because the systems TNLI seem to be used to inject water into the exhaust, so the gas temperature normally drops to well below 100C. Unlike dry exhaust systems.

If you use the exhaust system as a vent, as I've done on a few occasions, then you connect to the outlet or just before the goosneck. I can assure you that there is no back pressure of any type. 

[Tony Brooks]

9 hours ago, TNLI said:

If you use the exhaust system as a vent, as I've done on a few occasions, then you connect to the outlet or just before the goosneck. I can assure you that there is no back pressure of any type. 

 

I note that you have not addressed the dry exhaust with silencer issue. I think the operative phrase is "as I've done on a few occasions" so it's your method, not the manufacturers. I think that we can leave it to our members to make an informed opinion on the sense in doing this. I think it's totally crackers and potentially dangerous for one who is so sure the injector pump regularly leaks fuel into the sump.

[TNLI]

On 11/08/2021 at 09:24, mtbvincent said:

Hello to you all.

My name is Vincent from Holland and hope to learn more about my engine this way.

I have a Connoisseur 900 since a few months with a 1.5 BMC.

The engine has had a problem 😔 it went crazy!! i think it is called runaway diesel.

The oil was to high and come into my air intake. The reason was allot of fuel that has come into the engine-oil.

I stopt the engine within a minute bij pressing the exhoust with a ragg, sow i hope it will survive 😨

 

Sow my initial idee was the small fuel pump and i have replaced this.

Now i still think my oil level is comming up a little bit by time.

Alsow without even running the engine.. sow when it sits still i think my level on the dipstick rises. 

 

My question, 

*Is it possible fueal is leaking into the engine when its sits still?

*Has enyone got a idea of the there is another part that can couse this, i am thinking of the Big fuel pump has anyone had a it leaking on the inside? 

 

Thanks for your time 🙌

 

With kind regards, 

 

Vincent (Holland) 

 

Reading this post again, I wonder if the OP simply put too much oil in the engine, as that can result in hot oil getting into the intake and causing the engine to run on even when the fuel is cut off, as was described by the OP. That can only happen if the crankcase vents into the intake. I've had that happen before to an engine in heavy weather, so solved the problem by moving the vent to the wet exhaust outlet pipe. 

  If the oil was at a normal level and the pipe routed correctly, it would take a serious amount of fuel to result in a runaway problem in calm conditions. I'm sure the engine would be rattling as a result of the dillution of the oil, so I suspect this really might just be a high oil level issue.

 

 

 

On 11/08/2021 at 09:24, mtbvincent said:

 

 

 

 

Edited September 23, 2021 by TNLI

[mtbvincent]

Hallo there TNLI...

Off course not 🤣 why should i spend time and money to investigate the problem when i put to much oil into the engine?

Al sow i did not cut the fuel, i stopped the engine by blocking the exhaust pipe as described.

 

On topic, 

My engine has run more than 20 hours after oil change and replacing the small lifter pump.

The level stil rises bit by bit, sunday i will change the oil + filter again to ensure the engine stays in (good) shape.

Al sow i will dismantle the oil filter cartridge to check it for metal.... 

 

Cold start is easy almost perfect for a old engine, the engine does smoke for just 2/3 seconds this is normal as far as i can judge. 

When the engine is running it runs good, the exhaust does not smoke so i guess the fuel injectors ar more or less ok.

 

Thanks to the advise of the forum members i think its time to check the fuel pump itself.

I understand this can leak into the oil compartment itself when a seal is worn.

For now it runs fine and i hope to use it as mutch as possible until the winter season.

While keeping an eye on the oil level before every use. 

Thanks forum members for the time you have taken to help me.

When i know more i will let you know. 

 

With kind regards, 

Vincent 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[mtbvincent]

Guys i need your help ☺️

May I ask you for some repair advice about my fuel injection pump.

I have a local company (a professional) that have looked it over and he said the pump needs a rebuild.

If I translate it correctly,  the distributor-head inside is worn and this causes the pressure inside.. that pushes the diesel true the seal ring into the engine.

This part is not available at his store so i need someone that knows a company ho can deliver parts or rebuild my pump.

 

Can anyone help me with any ideas please?

 

PS, id mentioned before i was gonna check my oil filter cartridge.

Checked it for metal parts and this was fine no big chunks of metal or strange material after 20 hours, only a couple of small flakes.

 

With kind regards, 

Vincent

 

 

[mtbvincent]