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Fridge 12v/240


EnglishRose

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After getting our boat home and had a couple of runs we have discovered the fridge isn't working. We knew it was old and it didn't look in great condition and the owners said as much. We can't see a make but have found a label. It's a 12v fridge.

 

IMG_20210804_223959.jpg.347541a526fbe93edbbe02a2287514e0.jpg

 

Now the boat has an inverter but when the previous owners had the BSS done this year it wouldn't have passed so the surveyor gave them a choice to either cut the plug off it and get the BSS or to get it sorted. As they never used 240v they had the plug cut.

 

Whilst we are generally content with 12v as it is only used for leisure purposes the price of 12v fridges aren't cheap. As new to this can anyone outline pros and cons of getting the inverter sorted. One is obviously the opportunity to get a cheaper fridge and of course it means we aren't limited to 12v and can use other devices. We

have solar which feeds the starter and leisure batteries. It isn't in a marina we had end of garden mooring.

 

Our uncle is an electrician so getting any electrical work sorted is easy for us.

 

 

 

Edited by EnglishRose
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9 minutes ago, EnglishRose said:

We are thinking it is likely cheaper to get a 'normal' fridge like this https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B0796TQ517/ref=ox_sc_act_image_1?smid=ACW3IF4KTVO3F&psc=1 but we really want to understand the pros and cons to each.

 

Have a search of the forum using the search facility (top right hand corner of every page). There are loads of old threads on here discussing this exact subject. One from only a couple of days ago IIRC!

 

 

 

 

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I have 12 volts fridge freezer it replaced a 240 volt one, the reason? Because my inverter failed and I lost the entire contents! It was the second inverter to go that way so I changed, its handy not leaving an inverter on as electric use is less which as an off grid boater is important, the other side of course is 240 volts fridges are cheap, the choice is yours?

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10 hours ago, EnglishRose said:

We are thinking it is likely cheaper to get a 'normal' fridge like this https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B0796TQ517/ref=ox_sc_act_image_1?smid=ACW3IF4KTVO3F&psc=1 but we really want to understand the pros and cons to each.

I have just had my 12v fridge repaired, it only lasted 5 years as did the one before so if (when?) it fails again it will be skipped and I will be going the 240 volt route.

For the fridge it is important to look at the efficiency A++ under the old system or E on the new system. Also the total energy consumption (which will be much higher if there is a chiller compartment so consider carefully if you need that feature.)  Small efficient fridges are few and far between, that one you found is one of the few, it is quite small, if you have the space you may want to go larger. The same seller has larger efficient ones.

Then for the inverter you would need one which is large enough to cope with the fridge start up current (which is larger than the running current) 1000 watt pure sine wave (with peak of at least 1500) is normally suggested, the current the inverter takes when the fridge is not running is important too. Some inverters have an eco mode where they turn off almost completely until they sense a load but these have been reported as difficult to set up.

Edited by Phoenix_V
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9 hours ago, peterboat said:

I have 12 volts fridge freezer it replaced a 240 volt one, the reason? Because my inverter failed and I lost the entire contents! It was the second inverter to go that way so I changed, its handy not leaving an inverter on as electric use is less which as an off grid boater is important, the other side of course is 240 volts fridges are cheap, the choice is yours?

The answer is, to but cheap but highly insulated and efficient 240v AC refrigeration equipment, and wire up, so that a (minimum 800w) pure sine wave inverter only comes on when your fridge or freezer needs to be cooled down. 

 

I chucked out my Shoreline very expensive 12v DC fridge after it failed after a very disappointing 2 years of use and resolved never to buy another.

 

My experience of inverters is that they last for many many years if you buy a decent make: Victron or Sterling or similar.

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8 minutes ago, Phoenix_V said:

I have just had my 12v fridge repaired, it only lasted 5 years as did the one before so if (when?) it fails again it will be skipped and I will be going the 240 volt route.

For the fridge it is important to look at the efficiency A++ under the old system or E on the new system. Also the total energy consumption (which will be much higher if there is a chiller compartment so consider carefully if you need that feature.)  Efficient fridges are few and far between, that one you found is one of the few, it is quite small, if you have the space you may want to go larger. The same seller has larger efficient ones.

Then for the inverter you would need one which is large enough to cope with the fridge start up current (which is larger than the running current) 1000 watt pure sine wave (with peak of at least 1500) is normally suggested, the current the inverter takes when the fridge is not running is important too. Some inverters have an eco mode where they turn off almost completely until they sense a load but these have been reported as difficult to set up.

Even better than the most efficient fridge and a huge amount cheaper, is to buy a freezer and feed in the sensor of a cheap eBay 12v thermostat to allow operation at 4-6 centigrade rather than its intended -18c. The thermostat operates a relay, the relay turns on the dedicated 800w PSW inverter which instantly starts up the freezer compressor; simple, cheap and very very kind to your batteries.

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Thanks everyone we will look at 240v. We are limited on space as our boat is only 26.5ft so it does need to be the same size so any specific recommendations would be helpful but I'll look at the efficiency and power consumption. 

 

I've take some pics of the inverter but I  ant see  make and solar  but I can't see any details. I've also also emailed Steve Williams the guy who did the BSS earlier in the year to establish if he can remember exactly what the problem was.

 

IMG_20210805_085415.jpg.7b75bb98a126d9bb52ccbe403c60f2eb.jpgIMG_20210805_085442.jpg.e37a3cabdd4d7c082e2e70e095a54daa.jpgIMG_20210805_085602.jpg.99141813620cf678468f0377153d7b45.jpg

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1 minute ago, Bargebuilder said:

Even better than the most efficient fridge and a huge amount cheaper, is to buy a freezer and feed in the sensor of a cheap eBay 12v thermostat to allow operation at 4-6 centigrade rather than its intended -18c. The thermostat operates a relay, the relay turns on the dedicated 800w PSW inverter which instantly starts up the freezer compressor; simple, cheap and very very kind to your batteries.

Indeed but then you wont have a freezer compartment and all those useful shelves, salad boxes and bottle racks that fridges have, may suit some though.

 

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3 minutes ago, EnglishRose said:

Thanks everyone we will look at 240v. We are limited on space as our boat is only 26.5ft so it does need to be the same size so any specific recommendations would be helpful but I'll look at the efficiency and power consumption. 

 

I've take some pics of the inverter but I  ant see  make and solar  but I can't see any details. I've also also emailed Steve Williams the guy who did the BSS earlier in the year to establish if he can remember exactly what the problem was.

 

IMG_20210805_085415.jpg.7b75bb98a126d9bb52ccbe403c60f2eb.jpgIMG_20210805_085442.jpg.e37a3cabdd4d7c082e2e70e095a54daa.jpgIMG_20210805_085602.jpg.99141813620cf678468f0377153d7b45.jpg

just speculating but possibly it wasn't fitted with a fuse? Easy enough to check the no load consumption of that inverter but is the capacity marked anywhere?

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2 minutes ago, EnglishRose said:

As we are only using the boat for leisure is there a way of turning it off when not in use. Seems pointless to have inverter/fridge etc in use if we don't need it.

There is an on off switch on the inverter!

The point is that the fridge motor only runs about 30-50% of the time and the rest of the time the inverter is idling and wasting current. If you are not using the inverter for anything else it should be possible to disconnect the fridge thermostat from the motor and wire it to a relay to switch it (and the motor) on and off as required (if your electician is good at that sort of thing!)

Ideally  the inverter should be psw (pure sine wave) if it is msw (modified sine wave - a cheaper option)  may use  more current and potentially shorten the life of the motor.

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23 minutes ago, Bargebuilder said:

The answer is, to but cheap but highly insulated and efficient 240v AC refrigeration equipment, and wire up, so that a (minimum 800w) pure sine wave inverter only comes on when your fridge or freezer needs to be cooled down. 

 

I chucked out my Shoreline very expensive 12v DC fridge after it failed after a very disappointing 2 years of use and resolved never to buy another.

 

My experience of inverters is that they last for many many years if you buy a decent make: Victron or Sterling or similar.

2 vetus ones caught fire on my boat! My cheap one lasted the course, I now have a 24 volts victron but have a 12,/24 volts LEC a+ fridge/freezer bought secondhand for 100 squids works great and when I am away the inverter is off, saves electric as I am off grid

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3 minutes ago, Phoenix_V said:

There is an on off switch on the inverter!

The point is that the fridge motor only runs about 30-50% of the time and the rest of the time the inverter is idling and wasting current. If you are not using the inverter for anything else it should be possible to disconnect the fridge thermostat from the motor and wire it to a relay to switch it (and the motor) on and off as required (if your electician is good at that sort of thing!)

Ideally  the inverter should be psw (pure sine wave) if it is msw (modified sine wave - a cheaper option)  may use  more current and potentially shorten the life of the motor.

That's a rather complicated solution and unless you're competent with mains voltages, a job for an electrician.

 

Better to simply turn the fridge or freezer thermostat to maximum, then feed through the drainage hole the sensor from a 12v thermostat to control your inverter via a relay. 

 

Your 12v thermostat does all the work, as the fridges built in thermostat will always be calling for cooling first.

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A decent inverter will draw virtually nothing  on standby. My Victron is 2 - 3 watts so less than a quarter of an amp on standby so really not worth bothering about turning it on and off especially if you have solar.

 

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4 minutes ago, Loddon said:

A decent inverter will draw virtually nothing  on standby. My Victron is 2 - 3 watts so less than a quarter of an amp on standby so really not worth bothering about turning it on and off especially if you have solar.

 

It is for me through winter Julian if I ain't there 

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8 minutes ago, Sea Dog said:

So here's me thinking "a 26ft boat and someone's fitted a Victron mppt 100/50?" 

A closer look reveals a knock off - there's a new one on me!

 

I found an interesting article https://diysolarforum.com/threads/fangpusun-makes-counterfeit-victron-outback-others.9931/

 

Fangpusun pops up on lots of threads about solar etc.

 

 

 

 

Edited by EnglishRose
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12 hours ago, MtB said:

 

Have a search of the forum using the search facility (top right hand corner of every page). There are loads of old threads on here discussing this exact subject. One from only a couple of days ago IIRC!

 

 

 

 

A very little used thing the “Search” engine, would cut New Posts by half(if not more) if ever used as it should, anyway back on topic before I get moaned at for not encouraging New Boaters and repeat questions😂

 

  You say leisure use only, how long is that?

 

 Why don’t you just buy something like a Dometic CFX 12v cool box/fridge that plugs into a 12v cigarette lighter type plug. You could use the old fridge 12v wiring to site the plug(get a double and have a phone charger also)

 That way you just take it with you on your trips, but can also take it with you if you want cold stuff on car trips/picnics for the day and maybe utilise the space where the fridge was for better storage space being only 26ft.

Do you need a full size fridge?

Edited by PD1964
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2 hours ago, PD1964 said:

A very little used thing the “Search” engine, would cut New Posts by half(if not more) if ever used as it should, anyway back on topic before I get moaned at for not encouraging New Boaters and repeat questions😂

 

  You say leisure use only, how long is that?

 

 Why don’t you just buy something like a Dometic CFX 12v cool box/fridge that plugs into a 12v cigarette lighter type plug. You could use the old fridge 12v wiring to site the plug(get a double and have a phone charger also)

 That way you just take it with you on your trips, but can also take it with you if you want cold stuff on car trips/picnics for the day and maybe utilise the space where the fridge was for better storage space being only 26ft.

Do you need a full size fridge?

Possibly because they cost the best part of £800. A LEC tabletop fridge costs £130 and the best 800w inverter money can buy, the Victron, only costs £250! Many are a lot less than that.

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